Cars being tracked?
Discussion
Something that caught my eye regarding MOT tests.
"Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
"Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
I don't know for sure, but would strongly suspect they are using ANPR to cross-reference the MoT data. DVSA have the right to access that data to help them with their investigations.
If a car is pinging ANPR cameras some way away from the MoT station on the day of the test, then unless it's got cloned number plates something is obviously dodgy.
If a car is pinging ANPR cameras some way away from the MoT station on the day of the test, then unless it's got cloned number plates something is obviously dodgy.
Every inch of the motorway network is covered by cameras that gathers lots of data, its called NTIS, they say they dont record individual vehicle movements but am sure it has the capability to do so if in the interests of national security etc, not you going to Ikea or your grans.
https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standard...
3.10.NTIS automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras
The NTIS is the hub of the English motorway network and plays a key role in supporting the Highways England in delivering its
strategic aims of "safe roads, reliable journeys and informed travellers”. NTIS uses ANPR cameras to:
 provide accurate real-time traffic information to the public
 minimise the congestion caused by incidents, roadworks and events taking place on or near the motorway and trunk road network
 providing information on diversions to help motorists avoid the queues
In order to achieve these objectives the NTIS collects the journey time information via ANPR cameras which is analysed and
subsequently disseminated in the form of useful travel information.
https://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standard...
3.10.NTIS automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras
The NTIS is the hub of the English motorway network and plays a key role in supporting the Highways England in delivering its
strategic aims of "safe roads, reliable journeys and informed travellers”. NTIS uses ANPR cameras to:
 provide accurate real-time traffic information to the public
 minimise the congestion caused by incidents, roadworks and events taking place on or near the motorway and trunk road network
 providing information on diversions to help motorists avoid the queues
In order to achieve these objectives the NTIS collects the journey time information via ANPR cameras which is analysed and
subsequently disseminated in the form of useful travel information.
Have a look in the owners manual of anything fairly new... the manufacuturer is tracking the car anyway, and where required can/will share with law enforcement etc.
(In fact I think a few years ago a murder was caught because the info JLR had on his movements was stored centrally, so even though he torched the car they still had a log of it's movements)
(In fact I think a few years ago a murder was caught because the info JLR had on his movements was stored centrally, so even though he torched the car they still had a log of it's movements)
Facial recognition cameras were an issue here, but some entrepreneurs saw an opportunity rather than a problem 
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facial-recognition...
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facial-recognition...
NMNeil said:
Something that caught my eye regarding MOT tests.
"Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
Don't think it would matter to your average PH'er though. This sounds like a problem within the motor trade / criminal fraternity. I don't know of or have ever heard of anybody ever getting an MOT without actually bringing the car to the MOT testing station. No doubt it happens, it seems they've caught people doing it... but I think if that's the kind of thing you're mixed up in it's probably the least of all the wrongs you're doing! "Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
BrettMRC said:
Have a look in the owners manual of anything fairly new... the manufacuturer is tracking the car anyway, and where required can/will share with law enforcement etc.
(In fact I think a few years ago a murder was caught because the info JLR had on his movements was stored centrally, so even though he torched the car they still had a log of it's movements)
Daily Wail, inclusive of their spelling mistakes, but .. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7916291/P...(In fact I think a few years ago a murder was caught because the info JLR had on his movements was stored centrally, so even though he torched the car they still had a log of it's movements)
paper said:
He said that a Land Rover Discovery, owned by Whall's partner was found burnt out in a disused quarry in Bangor on 3 June.
Whall told police the vehicle had been stolen but investigations into the car's movements, recored by its Telematic system and sent to Jaguar Landrover, found it had been driven to Mr Corrigan's house the day before he was shot.
Mr Rouch said that the purpose of the trip was to 'scope out' and carry out a 'recce' of the house and the surroundings.
The Land Rover was also driven to the house on the night of the shooting, he said, with CCTV cameras also picking up its movements.
Telematics data revealed the boot had been open and closed during this time, which, Mr Rouch said, indicated the crossbow used in the killing being placed inside the car.
Whall told police the vehicle had been stolen but investigations into the car's movements, recored by its Telematic system and sent to Jaguar Landrover, found it had been driven to Mr Corrigan's house the day before he was shot.
Mr Rouch said that the purpose of the trip was to 'scope out' and carry out a 'recce' of the house and the surroundings.
The Land Rover was also driven to the house on the night of the shooting, he said, with CCTV cameras also picking up its movements.
Telematics data revealed the boot had been open and closed during this time, which, Mr Rouch said, indicated the crossbow used in the killing being placed inside the car.
ingenieur said:
NMNeil said:
Something that caught my eye regarding MOT tests.
"Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
Don't think it would matter to your average PH'er though. This sounds like a problem within the motor trade / criminal fraternity. I don't know of or have ever heard of anybody ever getting an MOT without actually bringing the car to the MOT testing station. No doubt it happens, it seems they've caught people doing it... but I think if that's the kind of thing you're mixed up in it's probably the least of all the wrongs you're doing! "Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
MG CHRIS said:
ingenieur said:
NMNeil said:
Something that caught my eye regarding MOT tests.
"Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
Don't think it would matter to your average PH'er though. This sounds like a problem within the motor trade / criminal fraternity. I don't know of or have ever heard of anybody ever getting an MOT without actually bringing the car to the MOT testing station. No doubt it happens, it seems they've caught people doing it... but I think if that's the kind of thing you're mixed up in it's probably the least of all the wrongs you're doing! "Detecting dodgy MOTs has become easier since new technology enabled the government agency to detect where vehicles are. “The latest technology and intelligence-based targeting allows us to track vehicle movements,” according to a DVSA statement, “meaning we know where vehicles are, and where they’re not. We can then compare this with MOT test data to ensure the right outcome.” In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents"
Any ideas on what this means, or is it just that they know if it's at an MOT station at the time of the test. But then how would they know other than the MOT tester putting details into the testing machine?
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/mot-fraud/
You're also welcome to download the journey time data if you're particularly curious / insane.
https://tris.highwaysengland.co.uk/detail/journeyt...
It's in a csv format, so Excel will open it and look at all the fun you can have!
There's also traffic flow data available, these systems have been going for a very long time, it's a remarkable amount of data really.
https://tris.highwaysengland.co.uk/detail/journeyt...
It's in a csv format, so Excel will open it and look at all the fun you can have!
There's also traffic flow data available, these systems have been going for a very long time, it's a remarkable amount of data really.
I have very big doubts when it comes to ANPR data and stuff being used for something as "lowly" as MOTs.
Coming from experience of doing ~1000 motorway miles+big city centre visits over 3 or so months with an expired MOT, not a mistake I'd be making again but I got away with it.
"In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents of MOT fraud, of which 710 were serious cases relating to negligence and dishonesty." and "Over 280 Authorised Examiners were banned from running MOTs in 2021/22"
What is the percentage increase over previous years? Funny they don't tell you that...
So all in all, a likely comically low % over a whole year. Sounds like scare tactics with nothing in the process actually changing.
Coming from experience of doing ~1000 motorway miles+big city centre visits over 3 or so months with an expired MOT, not a mistake I'd be making again but I got away with it.
"In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents of MOT fraud, of which 710 were serious cases relating to negligence and dishonesty." and "Over 280 Authorised Examiners were banned from running MOTs in 2021/22"
What is the percentage increase over previous years? Funny they don't tell you that...
So all in all, a likely comically low % over a whole year. Sounds like scare tactics with nothing in the process actually changing.
Edited by rampageturke on Tuesday 21st June 15:48
rampageturke said:
I have very big doubts when it comes to ANPR data and stuff being used for something as "lowly" as MOTs.
Coming from experience of doing ~1000 motorway miles+big city centre visits over 3 or so months with an expired MOT, not a mistake I'd be making again but I got away with it.
"In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents of MOT fraud, of which 710 were serious cases relating to negligence and dishonesty." and "Over 280 Authorised Examiners were banned from running MOTs in 2021/22"
What is the percentage increase over previous years? Funny they don't tell you that...
So all in all, a likely comically low % over a whole year. Sounds like scare tactics with nothing in the process actually changing.
At least when I was in the industry a few years ago, the MOT / tax checking isn't turned on for roadside ANPR cameras simply because the system couldn't handle it.Coming from experience of doing ~1000 motorway miles+big city centre visits over 3 or so months with an expired MOT, not a mistake I'd be making again but I got away with it.
"In 2021/22 it found 1,324 incidents of MOT fraud, of which 710 were serious cases relating to negligence and dishonesty." and "Over 280 Authorised Examiners were banned from running MOTs in 2021/22"
What is the percentage increase over previous years? Funny they don't tell you that...
So all in all, a likely comically low % over a whole year. Sounds like scare tactics with nothing in the process actually changing.
Edited by rampageturke on Tuesday 21st June 15:48
The amount of MOT enquiry checks and tax checks etc that would be firing off for every plate seen by every camera would obliterate the government system, and the ANPR systems aren't integrated enough with the gov system to be able to do any sort of 'sensible' implementation.
I'd imagine this is still the case and will remain that way.
No MOT / tax / insurance is in reality an issue if you are stopped, involved in an accident, or are picked up by an ANPR camera on a police car, as these will be running checks on passing vehicles.
MG CHRIS said:
My mate shut down a few garages MOT side during lockdown they were doing Mots while the garage was shut he was actually outside said garage watching while mots were logged on and off. Not a single car entered or left the building.
That used to be my job in Nevada.The DMV software would log all tests being performed and compare the emission readings. If one station was returning the same numbers repeatedly it would flag a warning.
I would then sit in my truck opposite the testing station, and would often see, and video for evidence, the same car being tested again and again.
Always a shock to the tester and station owner when I introduced myself, logged onto the smog machine and shut it down.
The follow up was to pass the report and videos to the enforcement division.
Not mine, but it show's it still happens.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/last-10-las-vegas-d...
Jader1973 said:
J4CKO said:
In order to achieve these objectives the NTIS collects the journey time information via ANPR cameras
So presumably is it capable of being an average speed camera if it records registration details and journey time?J4CKO said:
Jader1973 said:
J4CKO said:
In order to achieve these objectives the NTIS collects the journey time information via ANPR cameras
So presumably is it capable of being an average speed camera if it records registration details and journey time?MDMA . said:
Ford Transits we’re one of the first commercials to have the tracking function built into the ECU’s. Ability to track has been over 10 years now. It’s nothing new.
Presumably in it’s standard form it’s also extremely easy to shut down - otherwise vehicle theft would be a thing of the past?Lots of different things been conflated here IMO.
The original story is talking about DVSA investigating potentially dodgy MoT stations. I'd be amazed if it's anything other than there is an odd pattern of passes or a number of complaints, DVSA look at the registrations going through said potentially dodgy MoT station and then check ANPR to see if they were elsewhere at the time.
The original story is talking about DVSA investigating potentially dodgy MoT stations. I'd be amazed if it's anything other than there is an odd pattern of passes or a number of complaints, DVSA look at the registrations going through said potentially dodgy MoT station and then check ANPR to see if they were elsewhere at the time.
Yea, Will be that DVSA officer will (hopefully just use ANPR to) pull it manually after some suspicion as if he didn't, massive amount of misreads or clones would have him unable to keep up with the ANPR potential intel.
Sounds at first like any tester should be terrified a customer brings in a car someone's cloned elsewhere.. A real risk to testers livelihood as cloning is the new speeding for many youth otherwise unable to drive. So I hope to god this isn't the case as it will be like post office scandal all over again, where people lost everything because of an IT database error and stupidity in expecting to rely on it to make life destroying decisions without proper care or regard of tech issues & false flags.
Sounds at first like any tester should be terrified a customer brings in a car someone's cloned elsewhere.. A real risk to testers livelihood as cloning is the new speeding for many youth otherwise unable to drive. So I hope to god this isn't the case as it will be like post office scandal all over again, where people lost everything because of an IT database error and stupidity in expecting to rely on it to make life destroying decisions without proper care or regard of tech issues & false flags.
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