What counts as a police officer giving instructions?
Discussion
The thread about fines for driving in London's cycle lanes got onto the topic of how you mustn't pass a red light to make room for an emergency services vehicle to get by, or at least how you are opening yourself up to prosecution if you do. I think it's stupid that this isn't allowed but hey ho, I'd still do it if it helps an ambulance or fire engine get by.
There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
donkmeister said:
The thread about fines for driving in London's cycle lanes got onto the topic of how you mustn't pass a red light to make room for an emergency services vehicle to get by, or at least how you are opening yourself up to prosecution if you do. I think it's stupid that this isn't allowed but hey ho, I'd still do it if it helps an ambulance or fire engine get by.
There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
The specific instructions state that you should not.There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
donkmeister said:
The thread about fines for driving in London's cycle lanes got onto the topic of how you mustn't pass a red light to make room for an emergency services vehicle to get by, or at least how you are opening yourself up to prosecution if you do. I think it's stupid that this isn't allowed but hey ho, I'd still do it if it helps an ambulance or fire engine get by.
There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
I’d personally move over for police/fire/ambo as long as there wasn’t a red light camera there. If so I’m staying still. I’m also an advanced police driver so would only do it if it’s safe for me to do so. I wouldn’t expect anyone to do it for me though. And trained not to force people to do it. There is of course the exception of a police officer instructing you to pass the red light. Does that have to be something explicit such as a constable directing traffic, or would a police car behind you, nudging forward with blue lights on, hand on the horn count as such an instruction? Or would they literally have to get out and instruct you to move?
Ambo seem to be the worst around here for sitting on the horn at red lights. You are trained not to (sirens should be off, hold back so not to put pressure on. If need be turn lights off).
Exemption is for a police officer directing you directly.
As you said, it's idiotic. Imagine not creeping through a red light to make way for a fire appliance that could be going to a serious house fire.
I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
M.F.D said:
I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html
Scrump said:
I'm sure if this went to court, it would swiftly gen binned.LosingGrip said:
I’d personally move over for police/fire/ambo as long as there wasn’t a red light camera there. If so I’m staying still. I’m also an advanced police driver so would only do it if it’s safe for me to do so. I wouldn’t expect anyone to do it for me though. And trained not to force people to do it.
Ambo seem to be the worst around here for sitting on the horn at red lights. You are trained not to (sirens should be off, hold back so not to put pressure on. If need be turn lights off).
Exemption is for a police officer directing you directly.
So as a police officer would you (or indeed have you) get out of your car to give someone a verbal instruction to get moving? Or do you just sit tight until it goes to green?Ambo seem to be the worst around here for sitting on the horn at red lights. You are trained not to (sirens should be off, hold back so not to put pressure on. If need be turn lights off).
Exemption is for a police officer directing you directly.
I was in London recently and in pole position at a set of traffic lights saw an ambulance coming up behind me with lights on (No siren).
I was just making the uncomfortable decision on whether or not to move through the junction I thought had cameras on when the lights went out and he waited 3 - 4 car lengths back.
Once the lights changed to green, he put his lights back on and I accelerated ahead and moved over so he could pass.
At the next red lights, there was nothing at the lights ahead of him so he then put his sirens on and got the crossing traffic to stop and proceeded through.
Thoroughly professional driving. I was impressed.
I was just making the uncomfortable decision on whether or not to move through the junction I thought had cameras on when the lights went out and he waited 3 - 4 car lengths back.
Once the lights changed to green, he put his lights back on and I accelerated ahead and moved over so he could pass.
At the next red lights, there was nothing at the lights ahead of him so he then put his sirens on and got the crossing traffic to stop and proceeded through.
Thoroughly professional driving. I was impressed.
Scrump said:
M.F.D said:
I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.htmldonkmeister said:
So as a police officer would you (or indeed have you) get out of your car to give someone a verbal instruction to get moving? Or do you just sit tight until it goes to green?
Sit and wait. It would be quicker than stopping, getting out, stopping both sides of traffic, allowing the red lot to go. Getting back in and going again. The Moose said:
I was in London recently and in pole position at a set of traffic lights saw an ambulance coming up behind me with lights on (No siren).
I was just making the uncomfortable decision on whether or not to move through the junction I thought had cameras on when the lights went out and he waited 3 - 4 car lengths back.
Once the lights changed to green, he put his lights back on and I accelerated ahead and moved over so he could pass.
At the next red lights, there was nothing at the lights ahead of him so he then put his sirens on and got the crossing traffic to stop and proceeded through.
Thoroughly professional driving. I was impressed.
I used to see this all the time when in London, very professional driving all round by the ambo crews. Out here in Reading, not so much. Bunch of wI was just making the uncomfortable decision on whether or not to move through the junction I thought had cameras on when the lights went out and he waited 3 - 4 car lengths back.
Once the lights changed to green, he put his lights back on and I accelerated ahead and moved over so he could pass.
At the next red lights, there was nothing at the lights ahead of him so he then put his sirens on and got the crossing traffic to stop and proceeded through.
Thoroughly professional driving. I was impressed.
kers.M.F.D said:
As you said, it's idiotic. Imagine not creeping through a red light to make way for a fire appliance that could be going to a serious house fire.
I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
I’ve certainly moved for the Police in the past and got a thumbs up out the window for doing so. I think it could be argued that a police vehicle on your bumper with lights and sirens on counts as an instruction to move. I'm pretty sure there won't be anyone who has been prosecuted for doing so...
This has certainly got me thinking, following a recent fire at my parents house at 2am.
The fire service were there within 5 mins, due to the house alarm being monitored. At 2am there would have been no traffic, so no real chance of delays, but the fire investigation officer estimated another 1 to 2 minutes and it would have been a fully established fire, as opposed to what was relatively minor, at least in terms of fire damage, smoke damage is everywhere.
1 to 2 minutes would have made a difference … as it was my parents were rescued by a very brave neighbour so by the time the fire service arrived they were actually out, but had they not been, and the fire service had been a minute or so later it would have almost certainly been fatal.
I shall continue to move for the emergency services and argue it later.
mph999 said:
I’ve certainly moved for the Police in the past and got a thumbs up out the window for doing so.
This has certainly got me thinking, following a recent fire at my parents house at 2am.
The fire service were there within 5 mins, due to the house alarm being monitored. At 2am there would have been no traffic, so no real chance of delays, but the fire investigation officer estimated another 1 to 2 minutes and it would have been a fully established fire, as opposed to what was relatively minor, at least in terms of fire damage, smoke damage is everywhere.
1 to 2 minutes would have made a difference … as it was my parents were rescued by a very brave neighbour so by the time the fire service arrived they were actually out, but had they not been, and the fire service had been a minute or so later it would have almost certainly been fatal.
I shall continue to move for the emergency services and argue it later.
Totally agree, I always move out the way. Same with ambulance and police, sometimes minutes is the difference between life or death. Totally selfish to sit there like a nonce in-case you get a nip IMO.This has certainly got me thinking, following a recent fire at my parents house at 2am.
The fire service were there within 5 mins, due to the house alarm being monitored. At 2am there would have been no traffic, so no real chance of delays, but the fire investigation officer estimated another 1 to 2 minutes and it would have been a fully established fire, as opposed to what was relatively minor, at least in terms of fire damage, smoke damage is everywhere.
1 to 2 minutes would have made a difference … as it was my parents were rescued by a very brave neighbour so by the time the fire service arrived they were actually out, but had they not been, and the fire service had been a minute or so later it would have almost certainly been fatal.
I shall continue to move for the emergency services and argue it later.
I’ve moved out of the way a few times, while in pole position at lights.
I tend to sit a half bonnet length back from the line anyway, so just pulled forward on full lock to make way, then reversed back afterwards. I doubt doing similar to this at most lights would put you in the field of vision of any cameras.
Or how about pulling away, but at about 1mph, so the following emergency vehicle sits up your chuff and blocks your plate
IMHO an instruction from a police officer under such circumstances, would be them sitting behind me, still running full blue/two array.
I tend to sit a half bonnet length back from the line anyway, so just pulled forward on full lock to make way, then reversed back afterwards. I doubt doing similar to this at most lights would put you in the field of vision of any cameras.
Or how about pulling away, but at about 1mph, so the following emergency vehicle sits up your chuff and blocks your plate
IMHO an instruction from a police officer under such circumstances, would be them sitting behind me, still running full blue/two array.
Edited by Red 5 on Sunday 26th June 06:41
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