Heater control
Discussion
Daft question and I'm probably being blind but...
Can anyone tell me where the heater control is supposed to go? I have looked through all of the build manual pictures and other folks websites but I cant spot the thing anywhere...?
What I have from Ultima is a thing that looks like an old choke cable.
Can anyone tell me where the heater control is supposed to go? I have looked through all of the build manual pictures and other folks websites but I cant spot the thing anywhere...?
What I have from Ultima is a thing that looks like an old choke cable.
On the Sport it sits in the left hand ie nearside cill. l suggest you make it accessible to tighten the jubilee clips. Mine started to leak and l had to use my rubber arms to get to it. Also, if it is not too late, make sure you insulate those flow and return pipes to the radiator. They push out huge amounts of heat if not insulated and fight with the air con, usually successfully.
james said: My heater control is a towel, that I stick into the pipe in the centre of my dash.
Doubles as a towel drier too I'll bet! 
I've got the proper control valve all neatly installed in the sidepod...and I should even be able to reach it when it leaks without requiring to dislocate my wrist or train a small monkey to fix it...
I'm just not sure where to put the other end on the dash. It doesn't seem to appear on other folks dashboards. With it being quite clumsy and protruding I'd imagine it would have to be within 120mm of the steering wheel to pass the SVA?
ultiman said: Also, if it is not too late, make sure you insulate those flow and return pipes to the radiator. They push out huge amounts of heat if not insulated and fight with the air con, usually successfully.
I endorse this completely. I did this after having the car on the road for a year. I found the difference amazing.
Thanks for the help Paul. I've had another look through the build manual and the club website and I think I have spotted the hole in the A/C control panel where it goes. I don't have A/C but I do remember getting an odd looking bracket with my body releases that looked superflous once they were installed in the drivers luggage box. I didn't get the heater control wire for another month so I guess that they should have come together.
I've had a hunt about for suitable insulation for the rad pipes (I too am convinced!). In the UK Woolies seem to do the same stuff as the Longacre insulation (www.woolies-trim.co.uk/felt.html - they call it Cool-It-Mat). They also seem to do an adhesive heat shield tape which should be useful too.
One tip my old Dad gave me was to make sure that I hook up the flow and return pipes for the heater correctly. If you get the flow going through the valve the wrong way then it wont be a very good seal when closed and you'll always have luke warm air.
I've had a hunt about for suitable insulation for the rad pipes (I too am convinced!). In the UK Woolies seem to do the same stuff as the Longacre insulation (www.woolies-trim.co.uk/felt.html - they call it Cool-It-Mat). They also seem to do an adhesive heat shield tape which should be useful too.
One tip my old Dad gave me was to make sure that I hook up the flow and return pipes for the heater correctly. If you get the flow going through the valve the wrong way then it wont be a very good seal when closed and you'll always have luke warm air.
I only ordered my GTR yesterday 
so can not speak from experience but the pipe insulation being mentioned sounds more like the stuff you use to protect things like cable looms and clutch cables from the excessive heat of an exhaust manifold. In this job it works well.
A better insulation for these heater pipes would be central heating insulation from B&Q. It comes part split along its length so that you can 'clip' it over the pipe and put a ring of tape or tywrap every few inches.
PS Ted took me for a quick test drive and I don't mean it didn't last very long
so can not speak from experience but the pipe insulation being mentioned sounds more like the stuff you use to protect things like cable looms and clutch cables from the excessive heat of an exhaust manifold. In this job it works well. A better insulation for these heater pipes would be central heating insulation from B&Q. It comes part split along its length so that you can 'clip' it over the pipe and put a ring of tape or tywrap every few inches.
PS Ted took me for a quick test drive and I don't mean it didn't last very long
Re Insulation:
First wrap one turn around the pipes with strips of the under bonnet foil backed asbestos (?) sheet (foil side out) and secure it with evostick. Then apply Armaflex (split) tube secure this by glueing along the split. This will provide an efficient and durable insulation. The foil prevents the Armaflex degrading at the surface in contact with the hot metal pipes at over 105 degrees C. If anyone wants more detailed and scientific reasons email me off forum. The cheaper B & Q and similar types (Climatube?) will not stand the heat for long. Its for domestic central heating systems only. The Armaflex is industrial quality.
>> Edited by ultimajohn on Saturday 19th October 19:10
>> Edited by ultimajohn on Saturday 19th October 19:11
First wrap one turn around the pipes with strips of the under bonnet foil backed asbestos (?) sheet (foil side out) and secure it with evostick. Then apply Armaflex (split) tube secure this by glueing along the split. This will provide an efficient and durable insulation. The foil prevents the Armaflex degrading at the surface in contact with the hot metal pipes at over 105 degrees C. If anyone wants more detailed and scientific reasons email me off forum. The cheaper B & Q and similar types (Climatube?) will not stand the heat for long. Its for domestic central heating systems only. The Armaflex is industrial quality.
>> Edited by ultimajohn on Saturday 19th October 19:10
>> Edited by ultimajohn on Saturday 19th October 19:11
USCANAM said: You have to remember, that when you wrap these pipes, the pipes are 1 1/2" dia., amd the allowed space for them to fit into the luggage containers is only 2"!!Your wrapping has to be able to be compressed down to 1/4" in some places. Most home pipe wrappings are too thick.
Jack
A good point. My car is a Mk4 Sport - no luggage containers. Some research on the thickness posible may be required for the GTR.
Re cooling pipe insulation. I used Class 1 Armaflex tube (I think that this may now be called NH Armaflex) when I built my Sports just over 3 years ago. I did not pre-wrap the pipes with an asbestos type material on the basis that if the Armaflex ever reached its 105 C operating limit, then the coolant would have boiled away long before. After 3 years use the Armaflex is still perfect. For the main water pipes, I used size 42/13 (42mm internal diameter, 13mm wall thickness) although it is available in 3 other thicknesses up to 25mm. It is sold in 2 metre lengths either slit or unslit and I would recommend buying it unslit and simply sliding it over the cooling pipes, before they are installed on the chassis. It is very flexible and it saves the bother of using tape or tie-wraps. I also insulated the heater and aircon hoses under the dash with the same stuff, again unslit but a different size of course. The UK distributor of Armaflex is Armacell UK Ltd., 0161 287 7100.
For what it's worth, my GTR chassis arrives on Monday and I shall be insulating the cooling/heater/aircon pipes in exactly the same way.
For what it's worth, my GTR chassis arrives on Monday and I shall be insulating the cooling/heater/aircon pipes in exactly the same way.
Sorry for confusion on my last reply but I thought the pipes being discussed were the 1/2" ish pipes going to the heater hense my B&Q insulation suggestion.
The purpose of the 1 1/2" cooling pipes to and from the rad is to cool the engine so the last thing you want to do is keep the heat in. If the object is to keep the cockpit cool then I would have thought the insulation (ali foil backed stuff) should be applied to the skin of the cockpit.
The purpose of the 1 1/2" cooling pipes to and from the rad is to cool the engine so the last thing you want to do is keep the heat in. If the object is to keep the cockpit cool then I would have thought the insulation (ali foil backed stuff) should be applied to the skin of the cockpit.
Steve_D said
The purpose of the 1 1/2" cooling pipes to and from the rad is to cool the engine so the last thing you want to do is keep the heat in. If the object is to keep the cockpit cool then I would have thought the insulation (ali foil backed stuff) should be applied to the skin of the cockpit.
That's true, but, it's not the main purpose of the cooling pipes to cool the coolant, but to transfer the coolant from the engine to the radiator.
From my understanding of comments from other builders, the pipes make the luggage containers very hot and uncomfortable, and it's their contention to let the radiator cool the coolant, not the luggage containers.
At this point, I have to make a decision within the next few week, whether I want to wrap the heater pipes which I'm changing to braided stainles steel. If it's summer for example, and the heater control valve has been located on the proper pipe as indicated on a previous message, there should be no hot water travelling through the heater pipes. If it's cool out, and the heater is on (as it probably will be in the CanAm),it probably will be desirable to have a little heat in the luggage container.
Jack
Steve_D said
The purpose of the 1 1/2" cooling pipes to and from the rad is to cool the engine so the last thing you want to do is keep the heat in. If the object is to keep the cockpit cool then I would have thought the insulation (ali foil backed stuff) should be applied to the skin of the cockpit.
This is what I did, I used the same material that goes on the body above the exhausts.
In total I used two layers of sound matting and a final layer of the heat shield, this cut road noise considerably and I get zero heat transfer into the cockpit from the rad pipes.
Just a different approach that also works and in total the additional weight was 5kgs.
I noticed something last night that skews things a little. New cars don't come with the fume seals that the older GTRs and Sports had. According to the factory they are not necessary any more. If the sidepods are installed as is there will be a small but significant gap under the luggage boxes. Because the engine bay is a low pressure area (as long as the car is moving) there should be a fair draught past the radiator pipes.
Wouldn't imagine that this would keep down any radiated heat but it should limit any convection???
Wouldn't imagine that this would keep down any radiated heat but it should limit any convection???
ultimaandy said
In total I used two layers of sound matting and a final layer of the heat shield, this cut road noise considerably and I get zero heat transfer into the cockpit from the rad pipes.
Sounds like a good system.
What sound insulation did you use and supplier?
Did you put it on the pod as well as the cockpit skin?
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