E90 330D or E90 330i or the 1 series equivalent
Discussion
I'm selling my 2013 M135i to free up some cash and looking to replace it with another E90 BMW (I've had a couple previously}
My new job will see me doing about 50 miles a day in my commute, my question is, with the fuel prices the way they are, do I look at a 330D or a 330i ?
My 1 series is very good on fuel for the performance, but it has Eco mode, which the older cars don't have
I would be spending around 6k to 7k maximum on the new car
If all goes to plan, I will also have a motorcycle to share some of the commute when the weather is good
Open to suggestions
My new job will see me doing about 50 miles a day in my commute, my question is, with the fuel prices the way they are, do I look at a 330D or a 330i ?
My 1 series is very good on fuel for the performance, but it has Eco mode, which the older cars don't have
I would be spending around 6k to 7k maximum on the new car
If all goes to plan, I will also have a motorcycle to share some of the commute when the weather is good
Open to suggestions
I personally preferred the E90 330d to the E90 330i that I had overall, because the 330d felt more punchy as a daily, plus it was better on fuel too.
So I'd go with the 330d, however there is less to go wrong though with the 330i with it not having a turbo on it, and that is something to consider as these cars get older I reckon.
So I'd go with the 330d, however there is less to go wrong though with the 330i with it not having a turbo on it, and that is something to consider as these cars get older I reckon.
DuckSauce said:
Thanks, it's pretty much confirmed what I thought anyway, I will miss the sound when I go back to the tractor 
You might find this hard to believe...but I always thought that from inside the 330d was the more meaty/louder/interesting sounding engine for me. The 330i was incredibly muted both inside and from the exhaust I thought, and that really defeats the object of going for the petrol in many ways I reckon.
I'd definitely have another E90 330d, whereas I personally wouldn't rush back into a E90 330i though.
As noted the difference in fuel cost won't be massive, and could easily be negated by any bills that crop up on either car. I'd say that overall an N52 330i is less likely to throw up big bills than a 330d, but the N53 330i has a whole host of expensive issues that should be considered.
The other factor is the gearbox - if you want auto then it will work better with the lazy delivery of the 330d, manual would be best with the 330i due to its more rev happy nature.
I don't think many will argue against the statement that the 330i sounds better (well maybe just cerb4.5lee), although again I believe that the N53 isn't as good as the N52 in this regard due to the ticky injectors ironically sounding a bit like a diesel on idle 
Oh and if you're anywhere near a ULEZ or other city that's bringing in emissions restrictions then you'll definitely want petrol as all the E90 diesels are pre-Euro 6 so will be categorised as a high pollution vehicle and thus pay the charge or be outright banned.
The other factor is the gearbox - if you want auto then it will work better with the lazy delivery of the 330d, manual would be best with the 330i due to its more rev happy nature.
I don't think many will argue against the statement that the 330i sounds better (well maybe just cerb4.5lee
), although again I believe that the N53 isn't as good as the N52 in this regard due to the ticky injectors ironically sounding a bit like a diesel on idle Oh and if you're anywhere near a ULEZ or other city that's bringing in emissions restrictions then you'll definitely want petrol as all the E90 diesels are pre-Euro 6 so will be categorised as a high pollution vehicle and thus pay the charge or be outright banned.
Edited by pmorg4 on Wednesday 29th June 15:38
pmorg4 said:
I don't think many will argue against the statement that the 330i sounds better (well maybe just cerb4.5lee ),
), 
At idle obviously the 330i wins over the 330d, but inside the cabin I did like how meaty the 330d sounded for sure. I was always craving more noise from the 330i, but I believe that the 130i/Z4 3.0 Si are much improved in that regard. I did love how smooth and free revving(especially when you chased the redline) the N52 engine was though.
The 1-series and Z4 have different resonators in the intake that help feed intake sound into the cabin, which I guess weren't fitted to the 3-series as it's targeted as a more refined car. There may also be different mapping on when the exhaust flap is opened on different models. Of course you always have the option of the famous "golf tee mod" to force the flap open at all times which will give some more sound, personally I'm not a fan as I quite like the muted nature of the car unless you're using the top end of the rev range at which point the flap will open anyway.
I've never been a huge fan of the sound of diesel engines, but the 6-pot does sound far better than the very coarse 4-pot diesels.
I've never been a huge fan of the sound of diesel engines, but the 6-pot does sound far better than the very coarse 4-pot diesels.
pmorg4 said:
The 1-series and Z4 have different resonators in the intake that help feed intake sound into the cabin, which I guess weren't fitted to the 3-series as it's targeted as a more refined car. There may also be different mapping on when the exhaust flap is opened on different models. Of course you always have the option of the famous "golf tee mod" to force the flap open at all times which will give some more sound, personally I'm not a fan as I quite like the muted nature of the car unless you're using the top end of the rev range at which point the flap will open anyway.
I've never been a huge fan of the sound of diesel engines, but the 6-pot does sound far better than the very coarse 4-pot diesels.
Agree and it is difficult to get the balance of refinement and noise together(which probably goes some way to explain why we have piped in noise through stereo speakers now in many cars). I did like how refined the 330i was, but it always felt a little bit "steady Eddie" for me for something that had a lovely petrol 3.0 straight 6 NA engine under its bonnet. I've never been a huge fan of the sound of diesel engines, but the 6-pot does sound far better than the very coarse 4-pot diesels.
My love for diesels has genuinely shocked me to be fair(I still don't like the 4 cylinder ones though), and I'm amazed at how nice the 2.9 straight 6 twin turbo diesel engine is to use in the Merc GLE400d I have. It is very smooth, and it even makes a decent enough noise in the cabin too. Obviously if you stand next to it idling then it still sounds s
te though! cerb4.5lee said:
Agree and it is difficult to get the balance of refinement and noise together(which probably goes some way to explain why we have piped in noise through stereo speakers now in many cars). I did like how refined the 330i was, but it always felt a little bit "steady Eddie" for me for something that had a lovely petrol 3.0 straight 6 NA engine under its bonnet.
Many of the 6-cylinder BMW petrols are like that, even going back to the E36 328i which was very muted as standard. I removed a little bit of the intake resonator on mine and it made a lovely induction sound (I was a lot younger back then!). The ideal compromise would be some kind of valved set up like you have in the exhaust, but that you can adjust either through settings or by a sport button or similar so you could decide whether you want the nice 6-pot engine sound or silence.cerb4.5lee said:
My love for diesels has genuinely shocked me to be fair(I still don't like the 4 cylinder ones though), and I'm amazed at how nice the 2.9 straight 6 twin turbo diesel engine is to use in the Merc GLE400d I have. It is very smooth, and it even makes a decent enough noise in the cabin too. Obviously if you stand next to it idling then it still sounds ste though!
te though! As I get older I can see the attraction in diesel. I've always hated the narrow power band and low rev limit, but I find myself chasing the red line less and less often these days. It would probably have to also come with a switch to automatic as it suits the power delivery of the diesel far better, and I've never been a fan of automatic so I'm definitely showing my age
The irony is, I'll probably finally come around to the appeal of diesel auto cars just as they're banned and we're all forced into EVs!
Yep I'd definitely look at a 330d in your case. I've got a 125i with the 3.0 N52 and that's averaged pretty much 30mpg since I've owned it with a fairly even split between city and motorway/rural driving, so I reckon it's probably somewhere around 25mpg for my city mileage and 35mpg for out of town. I'd expect an E90 to be a little bit worse since it's a slightly bigger and heavier car, and then a few MPG worse again if it's an auto.
The N53 in the later 330i's is apparently a bit more efficient due to having slightly more clever direct injection etc., but anecdotally a friend has one in an E90 325i and gets worse fuel economy than I do, although I think he does more urban mileage and generally drives it harder than I do- it has a back box delete and a few other bits as well. There's also quite a bit more potential for big bills on the N53- he has a full extended BMW warranty on his.
My only experience of driving a bigger diesel is in a G20 M340d which was very nice indeed, and although I'd hope that BMW have made some improvements in the ~12 years between the E90 and G20, it certainly convinced me that I prefer a straight-6 diesel over most of the petrol 4-pots I've driven (although the 700Nm of torque probably helped). The spanner in the works for the diesel is if you live anywhere near a planned ULEZ zone. I live 100m from the planned Bristol one otherwise I would've considered a 330d, especially if I'd known fuel was going to be so close to £2/litre!
The N53 in the later 330i's is apparently a bit more efficient due to having slightly more clever direct injection etc., but anecdotally a friend has one in an E90 325i and gets worse fuel economy than I do, although I think he does more urban mileage and generally drives it harder than I do- it has a back box delete and a few other bits as well. There's also quite a bit more potential for big bills on the N53- he has a full extended BMW warranty on his.
My only experience of driving a bigger diesel is in a G20 M340d which was very nice indeed, and although I'd hope that BMW have made some improvements in the ~12 years between the E90 and G20, it certainly convinced me that I prefer a straight-6 diesel over most of the petrol 4-pots I've driven (although the 700Nm of torque probably helped
). The spanner in the works for the diesel is if you live anywhere near a planned ULEZ zone. I live 100m from the planned Bristol one otherwise I would've considered a 330d, especially if I'd known fuel was going to be so close to £2/litre!I did similar last year when I swapped my M140i for a 130i LE. I’ve previously had an E90 330, my other half has a 125i and I now have an E92 335i.
The petrols can be pretty good on fuel, especially if sitting at motorway speeds for a decent chunk. Her 125i averaged 37mpg on the way to Scotland in April, and roughly 30mpg around the NC500.
My 130i long term was 28, the same as my 140i which was a combination of commuting, hoons and short trips. My current 335i is about the same but better on a run (it did 37 recently on a work trip). My old 330 auto would do 23 around town and up to 35 on a long run.
Sound wise the N52 sounds good to my ears albeit more vocal in the smaller 1 series. A friend has fitted a carbon airbox to his and it makes a right old racket (in a good way).
I know people say the six cylinder diesels sound Ok but they’d till sound like a Massey Fergusson to my ears especially at idle. I’d only consider a diesel if you’re not likely to be affected by the clean air zones that seem to be growing in popularity. The diesel will suit the ZF6 better than an N52 (it works better in my 335i than it did in my 330i because the extra torque hides the ages of the ‘box).
The petrols can be pretty good on fuel, especially if sitting at motorway speeds for a decent chunk. Her 125i averaged 37mpg on the way to Scotland in April, and roughly 30mpg around the NC500.
My 130i long term was 28, the same as my 140i which was a combination of commuting, hoons and short trips. My current 335i is about the same but better on a run (it did 37 recently on a work trip). My old 330 auto would do 23 around town and up to 35 on a long run.
Sound wise the N52 sounds good to my ears albeit more vocal in the smaller 1 series. A friend has fitted a carbon airbox to his and it makes a right old racket (in a good way).
I know people say the six cylinder diesels sound Ok but they’d till sound like a Massey Fergusson to my ears especially at idle. I’d only consider a diesel if you’re not likely to be affected by the clean air zones that seem to be growing in popularity. The diesel will suit the ZF6 better than an N52 (it works better in my 335i than it did in my 330i because the extra torque hides the ages of the ‘box).
Sofa said:
The N53 in the later 330i's is apparently a bit more efficient due to having slightly more clever direct injection etc., but anecdotally a friend has one in an E90 325i and gets worse fuel economy than I do, although I think he does more urban mileage and generally drives it harder than I do- it has a back box delete and a few other bits as well. There's also quite a bit more potential for big bills on the N53- he has a full extended BMW warranty on his.
The problem with the N53 is that it gets most of its efficiency improvements from running in stratified charge mode, which allows it to run at a much leaner air/fuel ratio. This is great when everything is working well, but it will silently disable this mode if it detects any one of a whole host of measurements out of range, which results in fuel economy closer to that of the N52. For example, if the NOx catalyst is not performing up to the required standard, or the NOx sensor is worn, it will simply disable stratified charge until those issues are rectified (at great cost).This is probably the reason for your friend's relatively poor economy, as running properly an N53 should easily get better economy numbers than an N52.
pmorg4 said:
Sofa said:
The N53 in the later 330i's is apparently a bit more efficient due to having slightly more clever direct injection etc., but anecdotally a friend has one in an E90 325i and gets worse fuel economy than I do, although I think he does more urban mileage and generally drives it harder than I do- it has a back box delete and a few other bits as well. There's also quite a bit more potential for big bills on the N53- he has a full extended BMW warranty on his.
The problem with the N53 is that it gets most of its efficiency improvements from running in stratified charge mode, which allows it to run at a much leaner air/fuel ratio. This is great when everything is working well, but it will silently disable this mode if it detects any one of a whole host of measurements out of range, which results in fuel economy closer to that of the N52. For example, if the NOx catalyst is not performing up to the required standard, or the NOx sensor is worn, it will simply disable stratified charge until those issues are rectified (at great cost).This is probably the reason for your friend's relatively poor economy, as running properly an N53 should easily get better economy numbers than an N52.
My average with a lot of short journeys of 4 miles from cold and motorway runs sits at 28mpg. I often go out for an hour just to hoon about late in the evening or early morning and that is included in this average.
On a motorway run at 75-80 I get between 37-41 mpg.
Tested a lot of times.
So to me, all the NOX issues aside this is very good for a 3 lite petrol and I struggle to believe that with NoX sensor replaced I would be getting 34 mpg in city and 45-50 on a motorway run?
Edited by Fiedka on Friday 1st July 13:30
What's the nature of the 50mi commute? Are we talking free-moving motorway/A-road cruise or sat in traffic.
My E91 N52 330i typically average about 25mpg, but I don't drive it like Miss Daisy and my commute is only 8mi each way. On a motorway run at a steady 80 it will hit 34mpg.
By the same token the BMW diesels we've had haven't been that great on economy - we're talking high-30s/low-40s.
Personally I'd rather a well-maintained 330i over the d. And the auto is absolutely fine - I actually prefer it to the ZF8 Sport Auto we had in our F20 125i.
My E91 N52 330i typically average about 25mpg, but I don't drive it like Miss Daisy and my commute is only 8mi each way. On a motorway run at a steady 80 it will hit 34mpg.
By the same token the BMW diesels we've had haven't been that great on economy - we're talking high-30s/low-40s.
Personally I'd rather a well-maintained 330i over the d. And the auto is absolutely fine - I actually prefer it to the ZF8 Sport Auto we had in our F20 125i.
For reference I went from a 330d - albeit an E46 - to a 125i Coupé with the N52 3.0 in it. Back then when I changed I was doing about 15k a year, and from recollection the difference in fuel costs was around £10 a week. That would probably be a bit more now with the price of fuel, but I was quite surprised at how little there was in it. Add in lower insurance and a much lower maintenance bill I was quids in overall, and I had the added benefit that the 125i didn't attempt to gas the local surroundings on a cold start (the 330d had increasingly broken glow plugs).
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