Reneging on a signed contract of employment (UK)
Discussion
Hi guys.
Ill be brief.
IT field. Managment level. (Low level)
Accepted new job from rival company.
SIgned their contract of employment, start date 9 August.
My old company may offer me a better deal (More money, better job i want to do with guaranteed development) today.
I signed the contract of employment a week and a half ago.
If I break it am in for a reaming?
Ill be brief.
IT field. Managment level. (Low level)
Accepted new job from rival company.
SIgned their contract of employment, start date 9 August.
My old company may offer me a better deal (More money, better job i want to do with guaranteed development) today.
I signed the contract of employment a week and a half ago.
If I break it am in for a reaming?
What does the contract you signed say................?
Seems you were to hasty signing... in reality they other company are unlikely to want to pursue its more of a reputational damage thing in my experience. Its rife in my industry at the moment due to a shortage and with a major project in my area, the worst I heard was someone faking having cancer and needing a 6 month break to avoid taking a role only to pop up working for another associated company 2 months later! They basically can't move after that as their name was toast!
Best to be open and honest about your position to limit damage done to your reputation just remember you next move could be ruined if your not careful, I have seen it before, because someone drops your name as not reliable and someone who signs contracts and backs out over a increase in money! Its not attractive to people who have put effort into recruitment. I am in a role now with a manager who has been burnt by freelancers taking the mick over money.
At the end of the day the role that is the best fits for you and your career is the most important thing here but not shafting people is also a good idea over a small increase, you could explain what you need to move and see what they say but signing and then moving the goals posts is bad faith.
Seems you were to hasty signing... in reality they other company are unlikely to want to pursue its more of a reputational damage thing in my experience. Its rife in my industry at the moment due to a shortage and with a major project in my area, the worst I heard was someone faking having cancer and needing a 6 month break to avoid taking a role only to pop up working for another associated company 2 months later! They basically can't move after that as their name was toast!
Best to be open and honest about your position to limit damage done to your reputation just remember you next move could be ruined if your not careful, I have seen it before, because someone drops your name as not reliable and someone who signs contracts and backs out over a increase in money! Its not attractive to people who have put effort into recruitment. I am in a role now with a manager who has been burnt by freelancers taking the mick over money.
At the end of the day the role that is the best fits for you and your career is the most important thing here but not shafting people is also a good idea over a small increase, you could explain what you need to move and see what they say but signing and then moving the goals posts is bad faith.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 1st July 12:08
People back out of jobs all the time. Sometimes they just don't turn up on the first day. But either way do be open with the new company (who knows, maybe they'll even up their offer 
)
However...
)However...
KAgantua said:
My old company may offer me a better deal (More money, better job i want to do with guaranteed development) today.
I'd treat this with a huge pinch of salt. (1) Even if they offer you more money, the other reasons you're leaving will still be there. (2) "Guaranteed development" is nothing of the sort. I would lay money that if you took the offer and stayed at the company you're with at the moment, you'll be looking for a new role within six months.You need to read your contract but technically you can resign and give notice (as per the terms of your contract) but in reality, you just need to tell them you've decided not to proceed.
I do agree with the question of whether your current position really has changed - money is quite easy to demonstrate, the softer stuff is much more difficult.
I do agree with the question of whether your current position really has changed - money is quite easy to demonstrate, the softer stuff is much more difficult.
99% of contracts don't commence until your start date, so until then none of its terms would apply, once you walk through the door on day one, you are subject to them.
Inform them as soon as possible your intentions as they will have stopped the hiring / sourcing process and need to start that again.
As others have said, apart from the money NOTHING will change where you are, its exceptionally rare for anyone that gets as far as signing with athird party and gets turned in this way stays more than 6-9 months and they then leave more disillusioned than they felt at this point.
Truth is its a crap way to behave but these things happen, be prepared to never be considered by that organisation or that hiring leader again, even if the latter moves on.
Inform them as soon as possible your intentions as they will have stopped the hiring / sourcing process and need to start that again.
As others have said, apart from the money NOTHING will change where you are, its exceptionally rare for anyone that gets as far as signing with athird party and gets turned in this way stays more than 6-9 months and they then leave more disillusioned than they felt at this point.
Truth is its a crap way to behave but these things happen, be prepared to never be considered by that organisation or that hiring leader again, even if the latter moves on.
KAgantua said:
My old company may offer me a better deal (More money, better job i want to do with guaranteed development) today.
Why may they offer you a better job today? Is it because you've told them you're leaving? You then need to think if they had a better job with more money that you could do, why didn't they promote you into it before?
I worked at once highly successful Formula 1 team
The amount of people who never turned up for their first day at work was incredible.
They had a policy of trying to take the best from premier universities around (it seemed) the world.
For fresh graduates from overseas, the number of no-shows was 50%, for UK about 25%. Experienced staff would be half those numbers. They never made a big deal out of it.
When I started I had 3 phone calls from the technical director beforehand asking me if I really was going to start with them. After the 2nd call, I asked myself – “why is this such a big deal for them…?” would I sign a form saying I was definitely going to start? Err…. No….
When I started I realised why -
as above- your counteroffer won’t be what you were expecting, and you will leave in 9 months anyway.
The amount of people who never turned up for their first day at work was incredible.
They had a policy of trying to take the best from premier universities around (it seemed) the world.
For fresh graduates from overseas, the number of no-shows was 50%, for UK about 25%. Experienced staff would be half those numbers. They never made a big deal out of it.
When I started I had 3 phone calls from the technical director beforehand asking me if I really was going to start with them. After the 2nd call, I asked myself – “why is this such a big deal for them…?” would I sign a form saying I was definitely going to start? Err…. No….
When I started I realised why -
as above- your counteroffer won’t be what you were expecting, and you will leave in 9 months anyway.
You can back out of new job quite easily but is that the right decision long term.
Its easy to give you a counter offer to keep you in the short term but the same non money issues will arise down the line by which time job market may have changed and new company you turned down won't touch you with a barge pole.
Depends how short term money motivated you are.
I dont suppose the new company will want to get in a Dutch auction over your services and they will have a back up candidate no doubt
Its easy to give you a counter offer to keep you in the short term but the same non money issues will arise down the line by which time job market may have changed and new company you turned down won't touch you with a barge pole.
Depends how short term money motivated you are.
I dont suppose the new company will want to get in a Dutch auction over your services and they will have a back up candidate no doubt
Shouldn't you have tried to negotiate with your current employer before signing the contract?
Anyway assuming both roles are the same, I'd just follow the money and then look for an even higher paying job 6-12 months down the line
I doubt the new employer will try and enforce all the T&Cs of the contract, they'll probably just tell you to sod off. Or if you're lucky they might even match the counteroffer.
If your industry is very specialised then there might be some reputational risk but if they're big companies then nobody is going to care down the line.
Anyway assuming both roles are the same, I'd just follow the money and then look for an even higher paying job 6-12 months down the line
I doubt the new employer will try and enforce all the T&Cs of the contract, they'll probably just tell you to sod off. Or if you're lucky they might even match the counteroffer.
If your industry is very specialised then there might be some reputational risk but if they're big companies then nobody is going to care down the line.
On counteroffers:
1) Think very carefully about why you mentally left the company and accepted another role
2) Think about the culture of your current company and why you felt you couldn't raise (or why they didn't listen) to your needs/aspirations
3) Think through if they will revert to form and keep you parked for X years, having had to counter offer
4) Assess the upside of the new place
As I say generally I recommend not accepting them. I took one once as a senior manager as the executive team were shocked that I was going (it wasn't to a direct competitor) and everyone from the UK CEO down called me, met me and basically said "we screwed up, we weren't listening, what would you us to do?"
They matched (and then some) the package, gave me a lump sum and put me through promotion cycle where the CEO was on the panel (so it went through), and I'm still there 10 years on having made further progress.
It was genuinely never held against me, but in my wider experience (through my network) counter offers generally don't work out.
1) Think very carefully about why you mentally left the company and accepted another role
2) Think about the culture of your current company and why you felt you couldn't raise (or why they didn't listen) to your needs/aspirations
3) Think through if they will revert to form and keep you parked for X years, having had to counter offer
4) Assess the upside of the new place
As I say generally I recommend not accepting them. I took one once as a senior manager as the executive team were shocked that I was going (it wasn't to a direct competitor) and everyone from the UK CEO down called me, met me and basically said "we screwed up, we weren't listening, what would you us to do?"
They matched (and then some) the package, gave me a lump sum and put me through promotion cycle where the CEO was on the panel (so it went through), and I'm still there 10 years on having made further progress.
It was genuinely never held against me, but in my wider experience (through my network) counter offers generally don't work out.
zedx19 said:
Any company who suddenly comes up with everything you want, as soon as you hand your notice in, isn't a company that's worth sticking with. Move on, there maybe better career prospects in the new company.
Same experience here, although it did amuse me to watch the company management’s attempts to get me to stay.Read your contract. Often in a probation period there is a shorter notice period. Technically you can just give them that. However many weeks notice of your intent to terminate the contract. Otherwise you are in breach, but they are highly unlikely to sue you over it. What damages have they incurred? Even if you came via an agency they have clawback clauses so the fee is returned.
IN reality all that will happen is the hiring manager will call you names behind your back and then set about finding someone else for the role.
But as others have said, accepting counter offers isnt usually a good move. I did it once, still left not long after.
IN reality all that will happen is the hiring manager will call you names behind your back and then set about finding someone else for the role.
But as others have said, accepting counter offers isnt usually a good move. I did it once, still left not long after.
I went to work for a rival company once leaving a good job and package behind - 3 month probation period which after 3 months they extended for another 6 months. I said sorry my probation period with you was also 3 months and on this basis I will be leaving!! the fit has to be both ways. do whats right for you and have no regrets - you are just a number to them.
Lots of very (IMHO) negative things being said above ref counter offers, so I will provide a bit of balance.
10 years ago I worked for a company in the offshore oil/gas service sector, which was a stable job and I was well thought of.
I handed in my notice as I got a job back on a full-time 2 on 2 off rota.
I was pulled aside by management & asked if I would consider staying if they could sub-contract me out on a full-time 2 week rota basis.
I gave them 24 hours & they managed it, I worked for the company happily for another 6 years and as it was a different contract, I pretty much doubled my pay & had 2 weeks off out of 4 rather than indeterminate length of job/time off in between.
As a more closer answer to what I would do in your situation is as I did myself a few months ago.
Went through interviews etc, offered the job, as part of the "getting to know each other" part just before getting start date & signing, I had a change of heart.
I phone their HR direct, spoke to the person I had dealt with all the way through & said that I had had a significant change in my personal circumstances that meant that I would not be able to make the move.
I thanked them very much for the opportunity & they said that if ever my circumstances were to change again, they would be happy to hear from me in case there were opportunities suitable for me.
I can only take it at face value, but it sounded genuine and they followed it up with an email saying the same and that they hoped everything worked out.
10 years ago I worked for a company in the offshore oil/gas service sector, which was a stable job and I was well thought of.
I handed in my notice as I got a job back on a full-time 2 on 2 off rota.
I was pulled aside by management & asked if I would consider staying if they could sub-contract me out on a full-time 2 week rota basis.
I gave them 24 hours & they managed it, I worked for the company happily for another 6 years and as it was a different contract, I pretty much doubled my pay & had 2 weeks off out of 4 rather than indeterminate length of job/time off in between.
As a more closer answer to what I would do in your situation is as I did myself a few months ago.
Went through interviews etc, offered the job, as part of the "getting to know each other" part just before getting start date & signing, I had a change of heart.
I phone their HR direct, spoke to the person I had dealt with all the way through & said that I had had a significant change in my personal circumstances that meant that I would not be able to make the move.
I thanked them very much for the opportunity & they said that if ever my circumstances were to change again, they would be happy to hear from me in case there were opportunities suitable for me.
I can only take it at face value, but it sounded genuine and they followed it up with an email saying the same and that they hoped everything worked out.
Everyone has said it already, but even if your existing company counter offer is attractive you need to think about the fact that it took this event for them to even offer it to you.
How many months or years have you been there where they would have been prepared to increase your salary but didn't because they didn't think you'd actually leave?
On this new company you would - presumably - be on a new track salary & career progression wise, whereas with your existing one you likely wouldn't have the same future opportunities for salary growth, without taking on more responsibility, etc.
As has been said already keep in the back of your mind why you decided to leave in the first place. If "better the devil you know" familiarity is the only positive thing you can think of that would keep you there vs a new opportunity, new prospects, etc then the counter offer may be a poisoned chalice.
How many months or years have you been there where they would have been prepared to increase your salary but didn't because they didn't think you'd actually leave?
On this new company you would - presumably - be on a new track salary & career progression wise, whereas with your existing one you likely wouldn't have the same future opportunities for salary growth, without taking on more responsibility, etc.
As has been said already keep in the back of your mind why you decided to leave in the first place. If "better the devil you know" familiarity is the only positive thing you can think of that would keep you there vs a new opportunity, new prospects, etc then the counter offer may be a poisoned chalice.
brickwall said:
Never take the counter offer!
Only a bad company comes up with the goods after you’ve decided to leave. They were quite happy to milk you up until that point though.
I think the onus should be on the employee to push for pay rises, promotions, etc. Every single company out there is trying to milk their employees as much as they can. Can't expect everything to just fall on your lap.Only a bad company comes up with the goods after you’ve decided to leave. They were quite happy to milk you up until that point though.
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