Five yr old PCN on previous motability vehicle
Discussion
Hi all, so my parents received a PCN from 2017 this morning from their previous Motability car. The letter is dated recently (2022) and this is the first they've heard of it, I'm not sure if it's something to with Motability not forwarding the PCN, the parking company chancing it or their being a 5 year delay for some reason?
As I'm aware this is the first letter relating to the PCN and they should have issued the PCN in reasonable time so it could be appealed? correct? So it shouldn't be something to worry about?
All knowledge welcome, thanks
As I'm aware this is the first letter relating to the PCN and they should have issued the PCN in reasonable time so it could be appealed? correct? So it shouldn't be something to worry about?
All knowledge welcome, thanks
Send a letter back telling the parking company that no previous correspondence has been received and they're outside any sort of period that would allow them to apply keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As there is no obligation to name the driver your parents will not be doing so.
The parking company would be idiots to go any further but I wouldn't put it past them. They only have 6 years to bring a court claim so if they don't drop it, then string it out as long as needed and don't ignore if they're stupid enough to send a letter before action.
The parking company would be idiots to go any further but I wouldn't put it past them. They only have 6 years to bring a court claim so if they don't drop it, then string it out as long as needed and don't ignore if they're stupid enough to send a letter before action.
Edited by spikyone on Saturday 2nd July 22:33
martinbiz said:
If it's on the normal Motability scheme your parent(s) should be the registered keeper, so any tickets, PCN's should come straight to them
This may be incorrect, when I was a MOT ability specialist the car was always registered to Motability Operations. Unless things have changed since then.I can't for the life of me think that a 5 year old PCN is still valid...
These private parking companies and other similar operators of this ilk like debt collectors will play the numbers from time to time. i.e. they send out a load of letters to people who've not paid and for going to the trouble they will get a good number of people making payment. It's been going on for years so I guess the numbers work for them. I'm extremely doubtful that they'd pursue this penalty charge much beyond the first letter and potentially a reminder letter.
I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
ingenieur said:
These private parking companies and other similar operators of this ilk like debt collectors will play the numbers from time to time. i.e. they send out a load of letters to people who've not paid and for going to the trouble they will get a good number of people making payment. It's been going on for years so I guess the numbers work for them. I'm extremely doubtful that they'd pursue this penalty charge much beyond the first letter and potentially a reminder letter.
I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
It maybe termed a parking penalty but in law it's just an invoice under law of contract. If its from 5 years ago I suggest the company is just trying it on before it reaches the statutory time limit of 6 years. I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
Far to late to claim keeper liability so you can either ignore it or write as above saying PofFA does not apply and you will not be naming the driver.
Mrr T said:
ingenieur said:
These private parking companies and other similar operators of this ilk like debt collectors will play the numbers from time to time. i.e. they send out a load of letters to people who've not paid and for going to the trouble they will get a good number of people making payment. It's been going on for years so I guess the numbers work for them. I'm extremely doubtful that they'd pursue this penalty charge much beyond the first letter and potentially a reminder letter.
I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
It maybe termed a parking penalty but in law it's just an invoice under law of contract. If its from 5 years ago I suggest the company is just trying it on before it reaches the statutory time limit of 6 years. I would say as to the validity of their claim, as this is not a fine from the local authority and rather just a private parking company claiming you owe them a penalty charge for violating the terms of their parking contract they probably can still legally claim for it. An expert could confirm but it should be looked at more like a debt collection rather than a parking fine.
Far to late to claim keeper liability so you can either ignore it or write as above saying PofFA does not apply and you will not be naming the driver.
ingenieur said:
Yeah, so none of that business of having to issue a 'PCN' within 10 days of the event or anything like that.. because it's just a company offering you a chance to give them some money.
The 10 days is to create keeper liability. The notice must also meet other requirements under the Act. Most I have seen are not valid. Unless the PC knows who the driver was a PCN which does not meet the requirements of the Act is just an invoice for an unknown person sent to the keeper.
I had one simar from BW Legal just within the 6yr time frame that we originally just ignored when first issued. 5yrs later they troubled themselves to the extent of at least 6 letters and debt recovery /job loss threats/ccj
I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
geeks said:
martinbiz said:
If it's on the normal Motability scheme your parent(s) should be the registered keeper, so any tickets, PCN's should come straight to them
This is incorrect, all cars are registered to Motability (and have been for at least 20 years)"Although we own the vehicles leased through the Motability Scheme, we are not the ‘registered keeper’. The registered keeper is the person whose name is registered with the Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency in Section 5 of the vehicle’s log book or V5C. In the case of Motability Scheme cars, this is the customer."
200Plus Club said:
I had one simar from BW Legal just within the 6yr time frame that we originally just ignored when first issued. 5yrs later they troubled themselves to the extent of at least 6 letters and debt recovery /job loss threats/ccj
I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
Story is they hope you've moved and don't get the letter. They get a CCJ against you by default.I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
You find out you've got a CCJ when you apply for credit - ideally, for them, a mortgage as your house purchase depends on it so you get in a flap and settle it immediately.
Sheepshanks said:
200Plus Club said:
I had one simar from BW Legal just within the 6yr time frame that we originally just ignored when first issued. 5yrs later they troubled themselves to the extent of at least 6 letters and debt recovery /job loss threats/ccj
I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
Story is they hope you've moved and don't get the letter. They get a CCJ against you by default.I reported them to the solicitors regulatory authority who to be fair were useless and said it was all fair play for them to do so, but after advice on pepipoo I defended it by letter and they dropped the case without any apology
You find out you've got a CCJ when you apply for credit - ideally, for them, a mortgage as your house purchase depends on it so you get in a flap and settle it immediately.
My "debt" was £241 and after 6 months they offered to drop it it £100 for immediate payment. God knows how much cost they incur chasing though.
Nimby said:
geeks said:
martinbiz said:
If it's on the normal Motability scheme your parent(s) should be the registered keeper, so any tickets, PCN's should come straight to them
This is incorrect, all cars are registered to Motability (and have been for at least 20 years)"Although we own the vehicles leased through the Motability Scheme, we are not the ‘registered keeper’. The registered keeper is the person whose name is registered with the Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency in Section 5 of the vehicle’s log book or V5C. In the case of Motability Scheme cars, this is the customer."
Source: I worked for VAG's IT arm, in a system called AFRL, all Motability cars are registered to them, the end customer never receives or sees a V5, ever. Also Mrs geeks has a Motability car.
geeks said:
martinbiz said:
If it's on the normal Motability scheme your parent(s) should be the registered keeper, so any tickets, PCN's should come straight to them
This is incorrect, all cars are registered to Motability (and have been for at least 20 years)It's been this way for decades now since I started as a Motab consultant in the 1990's
solo2 said:
geeks said:
martinbiz said:
If it's on the normal Motability scheme your parent(s) should be the registered keeper, so any tickets, PCN's should come straight to them
This is incorrect, all cars are registered to Motability (and have been for at least 20 years)It's been this way for decades now since I started as a Motab consultant in the 1990's
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