Why be a good person?
Discussion
There is no evidence for the existence of god(s), an afterlife, heaven or hell or reincarnation. In fact they would be inconsistent with everything we do know about reality and the history of the universe. So when you die, you just disappear and your body rots.
If there is no afterlife and no one is judging you then the most rational approach to life would be to be selfish and never do anything that doesn’t benefit you personally. That might mean faking good behaviour as having people think you are nice often means they are willing to sacrifice themselves for your benefit.
I think it is interesting that so few people seem to take that approach though. Probably we are genetically programmed to be empathetic and nice to others, at least those within our own groups. Some people lack that programming but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I know I don’t and do things that I know are not rationally in my best interests but can’t seem to help myself.
Probably fortunate that more people seem to follow Plato than Machiavelli.
If there is no afterlife and no one is judging you then the most rational approach to life would be to be selfish and never do anything that doesn’t benefit you personally. That might mean faking good behaviour as having people think you are nice often means they are willing to sacrifice themselves for your benefit.
I think it is interesting that so few people seem to take that approach though. Probably we are genetically programmed to be empathetic and nice to others, at least those within our own groups. Some people lack that programming but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I know I don’t and do things that I know are not rationally in my best interests but can’t seem to help myself.
Probably fortunate that more people seem to follow Plato than Machiavelli.
I think the old saying treat people how you want to be treated goes a long way tbh.
I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the f
k up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.
I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the f
k up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.m3jappa said:
I think the old saying treat people how you want to be treated goes a long way tbh.
I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the fk up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.
This.I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the f
k up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.I reckon I’ve tried to be good over my life. Be nice to others. Do a good turn. Certainly there’s been a few people who have screwed me over, cost me money etc.
Broadly speaking when I look at their lives, who they’ve married, what they’ve achieved: I’d say they’ve managed to fail in life, if perhaps we consider that heath, we’ll being, a nice family etc are a reasonable yard stick.
I’m not watching my back, alls well, I’ve no worries. Life’s fine. I deal with a lot of people professionally who are endlessly in trouble, having to keep an eye out and that’s a whole load of grief to cope with day in day out.
Then again some people are utter nut jobs and - a good phrase- couldn’t lie straight in bed, they re that crooked.
Broadly speaking when I look at their lives, who they’ve married, what they’ve achieved: I’d say they’ve managed to fail in life, if perhaps we consider that heath, we’ll being, a nice family etc are a reasonable yard stick.
I’m not watching my back, alls well, I’ve no worries. Life’s fine. I deal with a lot of people professionally who are endlessly in trouble, having to keep an eye out and that’s a whole load of grief to cope with day in day out.
Then again some people are utter nut jobs and - a good phrase- couldn’t lie straight in bed, they re that crooked.
Three standard answers that don't depend on ontology (e.g. external morality arising from a deity or from the nature of things):
1. Enlightened self-interest - essentially do unto others as you would have them do unto you / pay it forward etc. Works unless you think you have the means to dominate absolutely - and of course want the kind of life that comes from dominating. See also Mackie's error theory (we act as though morality is ontological, but underneath that is a subsconscious desire to live in a particular kind of world, one that is informed by the morality we believe is absolute).
2. Fear of punishment - we live in society; it has rules. Even if you don't yourself subscribe to those rules, the mechanisms of enforcement will still be applied to you. So be good lest you get caught. Works unless you absolutely know (somehow) that you won't get caught. Rousseau and the social contract if you want to read more.
3. The failure of J.S. Mill's system of measurement. You might think that instead you should behave in whatever way will benefit you the most, but this is simply a solipsistic variant of general teleology - the idea that you should behave in the way that generates the most good for the most people. The issue is that it's largely impossible to know what will happen, and harder still to measure relative "goodness" (for you or others). So moral rules of thumb evolved over millennia represent experimentally tested approximations of the best general outcome.
1. Enlightened self-interest - essentially do unto others as you would have them do unto you / pay it forward etc. Works unless you think you have the means to dominate absolutely - and of course want the kind of life that comes from dominating. See also Mackie's error theory (we act as though morality is ontological, but underneath that is a subsconscious desire to live in a particular kind of world, one that is informed by the morality we believe is absolute).
2. Fear of punishment - we live in society; it has rules. Even if you don't yourself subscribe to those rules, the mechanisms of enforcement will still be applied to you. So be good lest you get caught. Works unless you absolutely know (somehow) that you won't get caught. Rousseau and the social contract if you want to read more.
3. The failure of J.S. Mill's system of measurement. You might think that instead you should behave in whatever way will benefit you the most, but this is simply a solipsistic variant of general teleology - the idea that you should behave in the way that generates the most good for the most people. The issue is that it's largely impossible to know what will happen, and harder still to measure relative "goodness" (for you or others). So moral rules of thumb evolved over millennia represent experimentally tested approximations of the best general outcome.
Kawasicki said:
Because it’s what we have evolved to be. It’s less effort to follow your instincts, and for most people that means being good.
The world we live in is totally made up, it's all fabricated by other humans through thousands of years of religious dogma and other nonsense. We no longer live in the animal kingdom where natures evolutionary rules apply.If you look at the Sentinelese, they are probably closer to 'normal' humans and they certainly aren't 'good' in the way we define that in our world.
Good and bad is a fluid concept, it's not absolute.
Because the alternative is being a dick?
I've always assumed that we're naturally inclined to working towards the good of the many, as that's what's best for the long-term survival of the species. There have probably been evolutionary branches of hominids with a strong "fk you" gene, but these haven't been great at collaborative working and haven't thrived.
I'm sure there are lots of examples in nature of apex species which do not form family / pack / tribal groups. But I can't think of many. Whereas successful social animals are everywhere: Wolves, bats, ants, humans....
I've always assumed that we're naturally inclined to working towards the good of the many, as that's what's best for the long-term survival of the species. There have probably been evolutionary branches of hominids with a strong "f
k you" gene, but these haven't been great at collaborative working and haven't thrived. I'm sure there are lots of examples in nature of apex species which do not form family / pack / tribal groups. But I can't think of many. Whereas successful social animals are everywhere: Wolves, bats, ants, humans....
CoolHands said:
Well most of the population is gradually changing so hang around long enough and it will happen. As well as the lack of moral compass these days, there is pretty much a collapse in law & order (there is, be honest), so it will all go to st in the not too distant future.
Really? Because if I want to find a wilfully unpleasant person who delights in being obstructive, rude and making things difficult for others they’re much more likely to be old than young. t in the not too distant future.I’m always surprised by the kindness and consideration of young people these days, especially teenagers.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
m3jappa said:
I think the old saying treat people how you want to be treated goes a long way tbh.
I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the fk up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.
This.I enjoy being nice to others and i appreciate people treating me nicely.
People who are unreasonable, rude or unnecessarily selfish wind me the f
k up and make me want to be nasty to them. Thats no good for anyone.I do my best to do the right thing and think of others because I believe it is simply the right thing to do.
The times I haven’t weigh heavily on me and I strive to correct those times or make up for them.
The guidance I have is the examples given to me by my parents and extended family.
I am fallible and I accept that but hopefully I give good guidance to my children and grandchildren.
Doing the right thing is the right thing no matter whether that comes from religious doctrine or other examples.
The times I haven’t weigh heavily on me and I strive to correct those times or make up for them.
The guidance I have is the examples given to me by my parents and extended family.
I am fallible and I accept that but hopefully I give good guidance to my children and grandchildren.
Doing the right thing is the right thing no matter whether that comes from religious doctrine or other examples.
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