eToro - Vanishing £10k of Bitcoin
Discussion
I am in a bizarre situation - any advice or examples of similar experiences welcome:
This morning, I checked my eToro account only to see that, out of nowhere, my Bitcoin trades had been closed on Friday 22nd of July at 16 seconds past 10 at night - and I am 100% certain that it wasn't me...
At that time I was unwell in bed, without a phone or laptop, but, even if I had been up and about and trading, I would never close on Bitcoin, because it's in a massive trough and I always planned to hold it long-term, so this really makes absolutely no sense.
Closing these positions has put me out of pocket by around £10k, as in that would be the extra cost for me to buy them back.
I've been on the phone with eToro and they have passed it to their investigation team. I was hoping it was a glitch at their end, but that feels less likely now I have spoken to them. Have I been hacked? Or has someone got hold of my phone and messed about with it? I have changed passwords and asked them to "freeze" my account until they've investigated, just in case.
I am massively confused about what the hell has happened and I suspect I will lose out because none of it makes sense!
It doesn't sound like you've been hacked as it reads as if at 10pm on a Friday the open, long positions were closed at market and the realised funds retained in your account?
It's easy to prove whether the closing orders originated from a device controlled by the client. Lots of clients close trades that then bounce back and they're straight onto the help desk claiming someone else closed the trades. As such, this is one of the areas that brokers are fully up to speed on data collection for protecting against the endless attempts by clients to defraud.
The 10pm Friday bit just made me immediately assume that it was a margin close out by the broker ahead of the weekend.
Were you trading physical crypto or OTC on margin? Do you have another account with other margin positions or margin positions on this account?
It's easy to prove whether the closing orders originated from a device controlled by the client. Lots of clients close trades that then bounce back and they're straight onto the help desk claiming someone else closed the trades. As such, this is one of the areas that brokers are fully up to speed on data collection for protecting against the endless attempts by clients to defraud.
The 10pm Friday bit just made me immediately assume that it was a margin close out by the broker ahead of the weekend.
Were you trading physical crypto or OTC on margin? Do you have another account with other margin positions or margin positions on this account?
Edited by DonkeyApple on Sunday 24th July 13:20
If your account is still active next week, you'll get an entry price of around $20.5k virtually assured. If you're really patient, you'll probably get lower IMO.
not financial advice etc.
I would take it as a lesson and get your money our of etoro - there is no reason to hold it there with those ridiculous spreads unless you found a way to wrap it in an ISA or something creative.
not financial advice etc.
I would take it as a lesson and get your money our of etoro - there is no reason to hold it there with those ridiculous spreads unless you found a way to wrap it in an ISA or something creative.
Sterillium said:
It closed at 22446 and the current buy price on eToro is teetering on 23000.
All you need to do is establish who closed it and why. You may also have a bit of confusion as to what exactly you were holding as your first post implies at some points that you thought you were holding physical BTC and at other points was implying it was the OTC.
Were you holding it on margin or have any other margin positions in your name at etoro?
There are typically two answers when this sort of thing happens. Either the client closed and then wants back in or the broker closed to cover a margin call. Admin error is always an option but typically the third and least likely.
Also, if you're holding the OTC and are GBP denominated don't use the USD product as you've absolutely no need to or have any logical reason to and etoro have an enormous fx and swap cost.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 25th July 08:49
This sort of thing is rife. I've experienced on many occasions eToro randomly closing positions, or take profit being applied at random. It's always in their favour and it doesn't ever change.
I switched to Binance for crypto transactions and store mine in a ledger.
Sorry this doesn't help you, but sadly based on my experience it's business as usual.
I switched to Binance for crypto transactions and store mine in a ledger.
Sorry this doesn't help you, but sadly based on my experience it's business as usual.
DonkeyApple said:
You may also have a bit of confusion as to what exactly you were holding as your first post implies at some points that you thought you were holding physical BTC and at other points was implying it was the OTC.
Were you holding it on margin or have any other margin positions in your name at etoro?
My confusion is centred around who closed my positions - but several posters appear to have experienced similar, so I might just drop eToro and move on.Were you holding it on margin or have any other margin positions in your name at etoro?
All my cryptos are underlying asset, no OTC and no margin positions.
Sterillium said:
My confusion is centred around who closed my positions - but several posters appear to have experienced similar, so I might just drop eToro and move on.
All my cryptos are underlying asset, no OTC and no margin positions.
Then it'll be simple as the closing transaction will have an IP and platform logged so they will know whether the position was closed by you or them. All my cryptos are underlying asset, no OTC and no margin positions.
What you also need to check, seeing as this was physical BTC, is what license your account is held under. Whether it's the FCA one or not because that determines whether you have any real say if they claim that you closed off the position.
Not entirely sure why anyone would hold a large position such as yours with this type of firm though.
Sterillium said:
FishAndChips said:
Why don't you just ask eToro the question?
Sterillium said:
I've been on the phone with eToro and they have passed it to their investigation team.
911r said:
I’m sorry but they can just simply look at their screen and time and sales , it will have all the data there to tell you what happened . It’s ridiculous that it’s takes more than 5 minutes to answer your question . Unless Etorro is that basic a chop shop their systems are not up to scratch .
The first line of support have no access or authority. They don't even know about the products or anything about the market. They're just there to answer the phone and help customers with things like spelling their own name. For anything complex, like deal enquiries, it has to be passed on to a separate team who'll just be plodding through the stuff bit by bit and it can take quite a bit of time. The return details can then get lost as the support staff reporting back to the client won't usually understand and nor will the client. Most of the time it's the client trying to claim they didn't close a trade that subsequently bounced and then by the time the firm finally reverts the price has sunk back down and the client doesn't want to be reinstated.
DonkeyApple said:
911r said:
I’m sorry but they can just simply look at their screen and time and sales , it will have all the data there to tell you what happened . It’s ridiculous that it’s takes more than 5 minutes to answer your question . Unless Etorro is that basic a chop shop their systems are not up to scratch .
The first line of support have no access or authority. They don't even know about the products or anything about the market. They're just there to answer the phone and help customers with things like spelling their own name. For anything complex, like deal enquiries, it has to be passed on to a separate team who'll just be plodding through the stuff bit by bit and it can take quite a bit of time. The return details can then get lost as the support staff reporting back to the client won't usually understand and nor will the client. Most of the time it's the client trying to claim they didn't close a trade that subsequently bounced and then by the time the firm finally reverts the price has sunk back down and the client doesn't want to be reinstated.
t company then 911r said:
That’s a proper st company then
It's just one that knows it's target customer. t company then For example, if you ran a pound store would you pay top wedge to hire educated staff to man your tills who could handle every customer query or would you put people no different from your customers on the tills and just have one more expensive hire sitting in a room at the back and then the really qualified people sitting at a central office?
When you look at the discount brokers the clients have no idea how the market actually works and the front line assistants don't either the job of the front line assistant is to process the really basic stuff and to forward on the more complex stuff. You just hire those assistants on minimums wage, show them some induction videos, hand them a headset and ask them to try and limit how often they touch themselves.
You can't be a discount, online order processor if you don't have the right staff in the right place.
Where it breaks down is when you have events like GameStock which highlights the total absence of understanding among both the customers and the frontline staff of how the market works and how they clear the flow. That's when customers turn to messiah's and religions to get explanations as to why the sun appears and is then chased away by the moon thing.
Non of this makes the firm bad it just shows that the firm understands it's target customer.
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