Do normal people spend this much on cars?
Discussion
The fallacy of sunk cost…
I’ve owned an ‘09 Mercedes E350CDi coupe for coming up to two years. I have a 26 mile/1hr commute each way, and having just passed my AD course wanted to treat myself to something nice.
Purchase cost was slightly below the going rate at £4500. It’s a fairly well looked after 1 owner car but I have spent an absolute fortune on work since having had it. Some is bad luck, like the cam chain tensioner going from a £200 job to a £1500 job, but I feel like I’m constantly lashing out money. So I’ve spent over the purchase price in bills, servicing and tyres.
I know a £40k car won’t suddenly become cheap to maintain second hand, and the ludicrous MB part prices don’t help, but what do normal people do? Settle for things being broken or just punting cars on?
On the upside I now have a fairly well sorted car, with good performance and reasonable economy. Given used car prices I’d struggle to find something ‘nice’ for the cost but the prospect of the next bill is a constant slight worry!
Full costs in my bio
I’ve owned an ‘09 Mercedes E350CDi coupe for coming up to two years. I have a 26 mile/1hr commute each way, and having just passed my AD course wanted to treat myself to something nice.
Purchase cost was slightly below the going rate at £4500. It’s a fairly well looked after 1 owner car but I have spent an absolute fortune on work since having had it. Some is bad luck, like the cam chain tensioner going from a £200 job to a £1500 job, but I feel like I’m constantly lashing out money. So I’ve spent over the purchase price in bills, servicing and tyres.
I know a £40k car won’t suddenly become cheap to maintain second hand, and the ludicrous MB part prices don’t help, but what do normal people do? Settle for things being broken or just punting cars on?
On the upside I now have a fairly well sorted car, with good performance and reasonable economy. Given used car prices I’d struggle to find something ‘nice’ for the cost but the prospect of the next bill is a constant slight worry!
Full costs in my bio
The reason I ended up with my first brand new car (2013 Audi A4 2.0 TDie) on PCP was that my 2008 A6 2.0 TFSI was starting to cost too much in repairs and maintenance, with some big jobs coming up in the next 6-18 months.
Granted, these were the days of cheap PCP deals (£300/month IIRC), but adding the purchase cost of my A6 to its running total maintenance bill was roughly equal to the cost to PCP a brand new A4, that had a three year warranty, AND cost less to fuel and tax.
I should have just got the A4 from the off.
You can get lucky running older, higher mileage premium cars, but things can also go very wrong. These days if I wanted cheap, I’d not buy a premium badge.
Granted, these were the days of cheap PCP deals (£300/month IIRC), but adding the purchase cost of my A6 to its running total maintenance bill was roughly equal to the cost to PCP a brand new A4, that had a three year warranty, AND cost less to fuel and tax.
I should have just got the A4 from the off.
You can get lucky running older, higher mileage premium cars, but things can also go very wrong. These days if I wanted cheap, I’d not buy a premium badge.
That’s some bad luck, but then you could have a couple of clear years coming up with little to no expenditure.
Just the nature of the beast - fixed costs are far from reality with something old and premium (I’m running a 227,000 mile 525d, and I’ve seen the kind of bills I’ll face if unlucky…!)
Just the nature of the beast - fixed costs are far from reality with something old and premium (I’m running a 227,000 mile 525d, and I’ve seen the kind of bills I’ll face if unlucky…!)
I just got shut of a 2005 model Merc C270CDi Estate that I'd had from a few months old as I wasn't using it much and the car seemed to be suffering from that. Every time it went near the indie who has looked after it for the last few years it produced a bill of around £500 usually for a suspension part or two, or a rusty ABS ring, but I looked at it compared to leasing a new one - £500 would be less than two months lease/PCP payments so a couple of £500 hits per year seemed bearable.
Amazingly it passed its last MOT but the advisory list was immense - if it had failed on a couple of items it'd have been a write off.
I suppose the killer is having to pay for someone to do the work - if you could DIY then it wouldn't be too bad and you could look at alternate sources for parts (my indie would only use genuine Merc unless there was a good reason not to).
Amazingly it passed its last MOT but the advisory list was immense - if it had failed on a couple of items it'd have been a write off.
I suppose the killer is having to pay for someone to do the work - if you could DIY then it wouldn't be too bad and you could look at alternate sources for parts (my indie would only use genuine Merc unless there was a good reason not to).
Was doing a comparison with my friend, we're the same age, similar income and passed at the same time about 20 years ago. He has spent less than £10k total buying and repairing his cars.
In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
Decky_Q said:
Was doing a comparison with my friend, we're the same age, similar income and passed at the same time about 20 years ago. He has spent less than £10k total buying and repairing his cars.
In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
What cars did your friend have for £500 a year for 20 years ? Sheds or appreciating cars or ?In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
I think it's a question partly of luck, partly of managing expectation and going in knowing what you're likely to be facing after doing due diligence and research. I tend to run mainly elderly Jap stuff, and they're generally reliable, with usually only maintenance costs on the Evo being occasionally eye watering.
My Porsche has been suspiciously wallet friendly in terms of general reliability, despite it now being elderly and not regularly used as they should be. I bought that fully expecting to be dealing with one catastrophe after another, so it's worked in my favour, as opposed to expecting reliability and not getting it. Don't get me wrong, the bill for tyres, brakes, and major service was not cheap motoring territory, but it's maintenance as opposed to unexpected issues, and I knew it was coming.
I won't run Italian stuff, even if I really fancy something ( Fiat Coupe 20VT springs to mind ), I'm just not that brave!
My Porsche has been suspiciously wallet friendly in terms of general reliability, despite it now being elderly and not regularly used as they should be. I bought that fully expecting to be dealing with one catastrophe after another, so it's worked in my favour, as opposed to expecting reliability and not getting it. Don't get me wrong, the bill for tyres, brakes, and major service was not cheap motoring territory, but it's maintenance as opposed to unexpected issues, and I knew it was coming.
I won't run Italian stuff, even if I really fancy something ( Fiat Coupe 20VT springs to mind ), I'm just not that brave!
It is luck of the draw, and I’ve done reasonably well in the past. To be fair, I start to think that a lease would be cheaper, but then I compare prices for anything reasonably nice and it really isn’t.
Just need a bonkers electric car lease deal, then it might stack up, fuel bills really hurt at the moment!
Just need a bonkers electric car lease deal, then it might stack up, fuel bills really hurt at the moment!
My wife does very low miles (3k a year max) but needs a car for kids / work as I cant always be at home every day.
I lease her a 2008 GT line Auto 1.2 petrol, its cost £251 a month including maintenance, tyres, insurance and servicing, all we pay is fuel and that's it, its insured for anyone to drive (including 17 year olds if they do my work online course) and gets changed every 12 to 18 months.
She could easily make do with a £1k ripper, but for ease of use and no hidden costs I'm ok paying it for now, come the end of the winter I'm not sure with how much energy is going up though!
I lease her a 2008 GT line Auto 1.2 petrol, its cost £251 a month including maintenance, tyres, insurance and servicing, all we pay is fuel and that's it, its insured for anyone to drive (including 17 year olds if they do my work online course) and gets changed every 12 to 18 months.
She could easily make do with a £1k ripper, but for ease of use and no hidden costs I'm ok paying it for now, come the end of the winter I'm not sure with how much energy is going up though!
carreauchompeur said:
It is luck of the draw, and I’ve done reasonably well in the past. To be fair, I start to think that a lease would be cheaper, but then I compare prices for anything reasonably nice and it really isn’t.
Just need a bonkers electric car lease deal, then it might stack up, fuel bills really hurt at the moment!
I have an '09 530i which i have had just over six years now. Spent less than £2k in repairs, mainly suspension bits and one, probably avoidable, bill whic was a third of that for replacing modules in the spare wheel well that got wet due to blocked sunroof drains. The dvd based sat nav doesn't work anymore, but it was pretty useless anyway, otherwise it is a comfortable,practical and reasonably fun car to drive that cost less than a quarter of the new price. Just need a bonkers electric car lease deal, then it might stack up, fuel bills really hurt at the moment!
As you say alot is luck in getting the right car, but the advantage of getting an older premium car is that they are still often nice to drive as they age so barring new gadgets there is little to find in a new car that is better. With luck after a few years it will have cost less than the depreciation or payments on a new car so at that point if it dies you are no worse off.
Most "normal" people I know just leave them broken. Modern cars get away from "everything working perfectly" quite easily if servicing and preventative maintenance are neglected, but it's a huge distance from there to them actually failing to proceed. I know at least one person who considers taking the car in for a service something you only do a week or two before you try to sell it!
MJ85 said:
Decky_Q said:
Was doing a comparison with my friend, we're the same age, similar income and passed at the same time about 20 years ago. He has spent less than £10k total buying and repairing his cars.
In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
What cars did your friend have for £500 a year for 20 years ? Sheds or appreciating cars or ?In the same time I have spent £60k+ and that was including trade in values. I didnt even count repairs as i have lost count, I had an alfa 147 that I spent £6k+ just on autodelta tuning ffs.
We were both happy with our choices.
I think for most, especially with money falling through our fingers at a ferocious rate in every element of our lives, a few niggles are something worth putting up with as long as the car still drives, stops, and steers safely. Even buying something new you're not immune from having to do it - yes things are covered under warranty but you still need the arseache of dealing with the dealership and getting a courtesy car and all that.
I think we inherently split things up into categories; "things the car needs to be safe (mechanical repairs etc.)", "things I like to have (infotainment/aircon/etc)", and "stuff I usually forget the car has (assorted toys and gubbins)".
If the repair is needed in the first category, it'll be a priority (or damn well should be). In the second, as soon as it's affordable. Third, probably can't be bothered.
I think we inherently split things up into categories; "things the car needs to be safe (mechanical repairs etc.)", "things I like to have (infotainment/aircon/etc)", and "stuff I usually forget the car has (assorted toys and gubbins)".
If the repair is needed in the first category, it'll be a priority (or damn well should be). In the second, as soon as it's affordable. Third, probably can't be bothered.
I usually change cars yearly.
When I used to work in the motor trade, I'd buy a part ex at trade price, run it for a year and then sell it on for at least the amount I bought it for if not a little more.
Rinse repeat.
However, in perhaps some stark contrast, I got a 2010 C180 CGI auto for the mrs (Ulez reasons) in the same way as above back in early 2020.
I havent sold it on as I left the dealership world behind, but in keeping with the cars absolutely mundane character, the car has wanted for nothing (other then tyres, brake pads and a scheduled service).
As such, I have kept it over 2 years.
In summation, i think youve been quite unlucky
When I used to work in the motor trade, I'd buy a part ex at trade price, run it for a year and then sell it on for at least the amount I bought it for if not a little more.
Rinse repeat.
However, in perhaps some stark contrast, I got a 2010 C180 CGI auto for the mrs (Ulez reasons) in the same way as above back in early 2020.
I havent sold it on as I left the dealership world behind, but in keeping with the cars absolutely mundane character, the car has wanted for nothing (other then tyres, brake pads and a scheduled service).
As such, I have kept it over 2 years.
In summation, i think youve been quite unlucky
Modern cars and "premium" ones in particular are so sophisticated (in the truest sense of the word, i.e. complicated) that even as technology improves making it possible to make any one thing more reliable, the lord giveth with one hand whilst taking away with the other because there are many, many more components on the fault tree diagram which can fail. Something like a rear view camera with a view screen is intrinsically less reliable than a piece of mirrored glass. Whilst a modern heated rear view, power fold mirror assembly with blind spot monitoring can fail in various ways, most people can tolerate most of these gizmos being broken providing they can still see behind them. With a camera if it breaks, the car is not roadworthy.
The question really is "how broken is acceptable?".
My wife's Fiat 500 1.2 8 valve is at once rubbish and brilliant, as it's fundamentally a very simple car with very few things to go wrong on it. Modern Mercs are awash with things to break and they break with enthusiasm. Some are just annoying things to break and some are things which disable the car. Her little Fiat has needed the odd thing here and there but everything is dirt cheap at least. I fitted two new rear dampers this morning for £30 a side.
I'm 41 now and having had flashy cars I'm aging fast now and very much am attracted to simplicity and fitness for purpose in cars for basic transport. Cars for pleasure driving are something else - but I've got discretion on when to fix those because I don't strictly need them. I really hate being held over a barrel by either car payments or non-optional repairs.
The question really is "how broken is acceptable?".
My wife's Fiat 500 1.2 8 valve is at once rubbish and brilliant, as it's fundamentally a very simple car with very few things to go wrong on it. Modern Mercs are awash with things to break and they break with enthusiasm. Some are just annoying things to break and some are things which disable the car. Her little Fiat has needed the odd thing here and there but everything is dirt cheap at least. I fitted two new rear dampers this morning for £30 a side.
I'm 41 now and having had flashy cars I'm aging fast now and very much am attracted to simplicity and fitness for purpose in cars for basic transport. Cars for pleasure driving are something else - but I've got discretion on when to fix those because I don't strictly need them. I really hate being held over a barrel by either car payments or non-optional repairs.
I bought a new Focus ST-3 estate for £26k five years ago, including a six year warranty. My rationale was that increasing maintenance and unexpected bills had seen off my previous car, a mk2 Focus 1.8 TDCI I'd bought nearly new ten years before, so I wanted to avoid a repeat for a while. I wanted an estate with a bit of go, but wasn't prepared to pay the going rate for a Golf R or BMW 340i, so compromised with the ST. I didn't want to go second hand as I was concerned about that type of car getting mistreated, and I intend to keep for for many years, so the premium incurred by buying new makes less of an impact.
So far it's worked out pretty well, but to do the same again today would probably cost a fair bit more.
So far it's worked out pretty well, but to do the same again today would probably cost a fair bit more.
Spending money on repairs, the inconvenience of finding a mechanic and not have a car for a few days is something I try very hard to avoid.
If buying a car fairly new then it must have manufacturer warranty. Some if these cars have included a Toyota and hyundai for longer warrenty.
If buying a car out of warranty then it will be something Japanese with good reviews. Honda, Suzuki etc.
There's probably a lot of good cars I've missed out on because of this but I just couldn't bring myself to buy anything German with poor reliability and overpriced parts.
If buying a car fairly new then it must have manufacturer warranty. Some if these cars have included a Toyota and hyundai for longer warrenty.
If buying a car out of warranty then it will be something Japanese with good reviews. Honda, Suzuki etc.
There's probably a lot of good cars I've missed out on because of this but I just couldn't bring myself to buy anything German with poor reliability and overpriced parts.
Not sure if I'd describe myself as a normal person, but I try to buy well and have been blessed with some good luck.
Current fleet of four ranges from P reg oldest to 57 plate newest. All four figure purchase price. None have thrown up particularly nasty or unexpected bills. Most of my cars over the years have been of a similar vintage with similar results.
I do research every purchase meticulously to get a sense of potential costs, and I'd like to think I know my way around a used car, but the reality is probably that I've been fairly lucky. I also favour cars that depreciate slowly or even appreciate, which helps to offset running costs.
TBH if I'd bought an 09 E350CDI I'd expect to have to fork out on upkeep. Even if you do spend £4.5k over three years that's lower than the depreciation or lease payments on most new cars.
Current fleet of four ranges from P reg oldest to 57 plate newest. All four figure purchase price. None have thrown up particularly nasty or unexpected bills. Most of my cars over the years have been of a similar vintage with similar results.
I do research every purchase meticulously to get a sense of potential costs, and I'd like to think I know my way around a used car, but the reality is probably that I've been fairly lucky. I also favour cars that depreciate slowly or even appreciate, which helps to offset running costs.
TBH if I'd bought an 09 E350CDI I'd expect to have to fork out on upkeep. Even if you do spend £4.5k over three years that's lower than the depreciation or lease payments on most new cars.
If I wanted to treat myself to something nice and not have big bills I wouldn't start with a 10+ year old car.
I sold a perfectly reliable 10 Yr old car, that cost the new owner several thousand in new bits over the next 12 months.
Things wear out, and expensive cars wear out expensively. That's why they end up being super cheap to buy, I see it as the cheap price is the Compensation for the additional costs you might incur.
Spend more and you might have fewer additional costs
I sold a perfectly reliable 10 Yr old car, that cost the new owner several thousand in new bits over the next 12 months.
Things wear out, and expensive cars wear out expensively. That's why they end up being super cheap to buy, I see it as the cheap price is the Compensation for the additional costs you might incur.
Spend more and you might have fewer additional costs
Cars are made from parts, parts wear over time and will need to be replaced. The key to reliability is to follow a schedule of replacing parts before they fail. The V6 diesel that replaced the inline 6 had some common failure issues that need proactive mtc. If you've gone through those, the bleeding will subside for a while provided that you used high quality aftermarket parts.
There are a lot of junk aftermarket parts out there so not using OE or quality aftermarket will mean that you'll just keep throwing money at it. If you want trouble free motoring, roll yourself into a lease and get a new car every four years.
There are a lot of junk aftermarket parts out there so not using OE or quality aftermarket will mean that you'll just keep throwing money at it. If you want trouble free motoring, roll yourself into a lease and get a new car every four years.
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