F10 M5 - Disappointed
Discussion
I have owned my F10 M5 for a few months now, it's a beauty, just one owner, 2016, 33,000 miles, really well looked after but I am somewhat disappointed with the performance.
What frustrates me is the fact you have to really open the throttle a lot and get the revs up high to "feel" the power delivery and push back into your seat.
It just isn't as effortless as I expected and wanted it to be. I don't like having to plant my right foot to the floor to get a car shifting, mostly because I am concerned of loss of traction in this M5 so would like more mid range torque.
I recently got an X5 diesel courtesy car from BMW due to mine going in under warranty for some minor work and that "felt" more punchy than the M5 at lower revs and under less throttle, despite the fact it had just 400 bhp and was a diesel.
Anyone else find this with the M5?
What frustrates me is the fact you have to really open the throttle a lot and get the revs up high to "feel" the power delivery and push back into your seat.
It just isn't as effortless as I expected and wanted it to be. I don't like having to plant my right foot to the floor to get a car shifting, mostly because I am concerned of loss of traction in this M5 so would like more mid range torque.
I recently got an X5 diesel courtesy car from BMW due to mine going in under warranty for some minor work and that "felt" more punchy than the M5 at lower revs and under less throttle, despite the fact it had just 400 bhp and was a diesel.
Anyone else find this with the M5?
I had a 2016 M6 GC and I would say it was effortless as it could be.
However you might be referring to more the traction issue which is certainly not effortless and I wouldnt consider the M6 GC fun unless I was absolutely on it and being completely and utterly illegal.
It was a great car but not fun day to day: not even remotely. I enjoyed the car a couple of times over 2 years when I took it on road trips.
However you might be referring to more the traction issue which is certainly not effortless and I wouldnt consider the M6 GC fun unless I was absolutely on it and being completely and utterly illegal.
It was a great car but not fun day to day: not even remotely. I enjoyed the car a couple of times over 2 years when I took it on road trips.
Edward-25gc3 said:
Anyone else find this with the M5?
In a word - No! In fact I love the way the car seems to really pick up when changing up to 3rd & 4th, even relatively early in the rev range. Not directly comparable as I have the F90 although I think there's only about 50 bhp / 50 lb. ft. difference between the engines, but I find the progress effortless. Have you tried short shifting with wide throttle openings, to keep the engine in the meat of the low down torque band? Also, have you kept an eye out for the TC light - that could be holding things back if grip is limited. Sure, there's not as much power lower down but it may help you to appreciate the pace without revving the engine through the full range all the time.
BlueJ said:
In a word - No! In fact I love the way the car seems to really pick up when changing up to 3rd & 4th, even relatively early in the rev range. Not directly comparable as I have the F90 although I think there's only about 50 bhp / 50 lb. ft. difference between the engines, but I find the progress effortless. Have you tried short shifting with wide throttle openings, to keep the engine in the meat of the low down torque band? Also, have you kept an eye out for the TC light - that could be holding things back if grip is limited.
Sure, there's not as much power lower down but it may help you to appreciate the pace without revving the engine through the full range all the time.
I took the car on track a week ago and got full throttle a couple of times however couldnt really enjoy or appreciate it as I was at thruxton, it was my first track day and i spent most of time on track checking in my mirrors and jumping out of peoples way who were quicker than me. Sure, there's not as much power lower down but it may help you to appreciate the pace without revving the engine through the full range all the time.
when I do push on i am mostly focused on the speed on heads up display so dont really look for TC light but will do next time. I have not turned TC off yet and am very progressive with building up the throttle.
Maybe this is where I am going wrong - trying to baby the car into higher power rather than just "stabbing" the throttle open and allowing the TC to control the car?
I know the car is way more capable than I have explored but I have never liked flooring the throttle in any car as it just feels like the car is pushed to its limit and the engine could let go.
I mention the TC light as I have been very underwhelmed a couple of times when I floored the throttle from mid-range in 2nd. I was expecting the car to take off, and one time I noticed that the yellow TC light was flashing and things only really picked up properly once into 3rd. (I don't really understand why traction was an issue as it was dry, straight line, and the F90 shifts power to the front wheels when rears start to slip).
I've not driven the F10 and it's an awful lot of torque in a rear drive car, but I would definitely say to explore quicker, wide throttle openings and get a feel for the TC. When fully engaged it shouldn't let the rear move around much, if at all. Obviously best to practice in a straight line in dry weather first, on your next track day!
I've not driven the F10 and it's an awful lot of torque in a rear drive car, but I would definitely say to explore quicker, wide throttle openings and get a feel for the TC. When fully engaged it shouldn't let the rear move around much, if at all. Obviously best to practice in a straight line in dry weather first, on your next track day!
The F10 M5 is certainly not lacking in firepower and swapping mine for an X5 M50D (old F15 tri-turbo) really showed how much more powerful it is.
If you have decent tyres and in dry weather conditions it should push you right back. Maybe check your throttle setting, and go for Sport or Sport Plus if you want a snappier response.
If you have decent tyres and in dry weather conditions it should push you right back. Maybe check your throttle setting, and go for Sport or Sport Plus if you want a snappier response.
I found my F10 m5 very traction limited in 1st and 2nd, unless conditions are perfect it won't just grip and go in 2nd so you have to be progressive because it's RWD, it's also very high geared in 6th and 7th and likes to change up into them in auto mode, so it's going to drop a few gears if you slam it down which can put you into the traction limited zone.
But you can drive around that by using the paddles and driving it manually, from 60mph in good weather it's ballistic, scary fast, my F80 M3 felt a lot slower compared but more willing below that.
So long as you don't drive it like it was an AWD Audi RS it never feels anything other than utterly imperious, it has masses of torque everywhere just not masses of traction at lower speeds.
Edward-25gc3 said:
I have owned my F10 M5 for a few months now, it's a beauty, just one owner, 2016, 33,000 miles, really well looked after but I am somewhat disappointed with the performance.
What frustrates me is the fact you have to really open the throttle a lot and get the revs up high to "feel" the power delivery and push back into your seat.
It just isn't as effortless as I expected and wanted it to be. I don't like having to plant my right foot to the floor to get a car shifting, mostly because I am concerned of loss of traction in this M5 so would like more mid range torque.
I recently got an X5 diesel courtesy car from BMW due to mine going in under warranty for some minor work and that "felt" more punchy than the M5 at lower revs and under less throttle, despite the fact it had just 400 bhp and was a diesel.
Anyone else find this with the M5?
I'm in a similar position to you, I've had the car a few months and I'm still learning it.What frustrates me is the fact you have to really open the throttle a lot and get the revs up high to "feel" the power delivery and push back into your seat.
It just isn't as effortless as I expected and wanted it to be. I don't like having to plant my right foot to the floor to get a car shifting, mostly because I am concerned of loss of traction in this M5 so would like more mid range torque.
I recently got an X5 diesel courtesy car from BMW due to mine going in under warranty for some minor work and that "felt" more punchy than the M5 at lower revs and under less throttle, despite the fact it had just 400 bhp and was a diesel.
Anyone else find this with the M5?
What I've found is there's a huge difference between it's default start up setting (auto mode, efficient throttle and shift speed 1) where it's quite relaxed and the throttle response is quite soft, to turning everything up and putting it in manual mode when it becomes absolutely nuts.
I'd agree that in the default auto mode you do sometimes have to give the throttle a bit of a prod to get it moving, but on the whole I find the performance incredible and it builds speed relentlessly.
At the moment, having only had the car a few months, a lot of the time it actually feels as if it's too fast, maybe I'll get used to it, I've got a few B roads around where I live, some of which are a bit undulating, and driving on them with everything turned up and using the performance, it builds speed so quickly that it feels as if I'm having to slow down before I've even scratched the surface of what it can do.
Previously I've had an E36 and E92 M3 and an E39 M5, but this thing's in a different league performance wise.
God knows what an F90 Competition must be like,
I have had mine for four years now. I get what you are saying as in the wet or cold it has too much power and it is difficult to keep the wheels from lighting up. I find the throttle response a tad slow when I floor it as I think it has to try and work out how much power it can unleash! I use mine for mainly long journeys etc with family and find it excels on motorways where it is super comfy and has so much power when needed. I struggle to think what I would replace it with although I spend a lot of time looking but have yet to find anything that makes me want to move without spending an additional 30k.
its an M Car designed to be driven hard and revved hard, the engine is designed this way, that is why peak power is between 5750 - 7000RPM, most V8s would dream of this power band at these revs! Its not exactly low on torque either making it from 1500rpm
If you want low down grunt then look at a B58 engined car or a diesel as you suggested. A high powered diesel car will of course feel like a huge amount of power low down, but it will have nothing over 4krpm.
If you want low down grunt then look at a B58 engined car or a diesel as you suggested. A high powered diesel car will of course feel like a huge amount of power low down, but it will have nothing over 4krpm.
I think as others have said it's probably the traction dialing it back. It took me a while to adjust to this, but it's definitely not just point and squirt. So make sure you have good tyres, they are warm and the surface is perfect or you will easily be spinning below 4th.
The other thing mentioned is that it fires up the gears, so when you boot it you'll probably be kicking down 3 or 4 gears. The tyres just can't handle the kick down + torque so you'll feel a bit flat. I find that knocking it down a few gears manually can help me focus on getting the throttle up to 100% without spin.
You'll also have noticed that comfort mode is like a big long piece of elastic, and not great for feeling progress. It's nothing, nothing, 500lb/ft. Sport or Sport plus will make it feel much more responsive when you want it.
Once you get the hang a bit it's absolutely mental fast, and the fact the pace doesn't drop off above 100 is incredible. But you need good roads or lighter throttle!
The other thing mentioned is that it fires up the gears, so when you boot it you'll probably be kicking down 3 or 4 gears. The tyres just can't handle the kick down + torque so you'll feel a bit flat. I find that knocking it down a few gears manually can help me focus on getting the throttle up to 100% without spin.
You'll also have noticed that comfort mode is like a big long piece of elastic, and not great for feeling progress. It's nothing, nothing, 500lb/ft. Sport or Sport plus will make it feel much more responsive when you want it.
Once you get the hang a bit it's absolutely mental fast, and the fact the pace doesn't drop off above 100 is incredible. But you need good roads or lighter throttle!
I was disappointed when I first got mine. It didn't fell mega quick and the brakes were awful. I soon realised that the brakes were very good, but felt bad because the car was going so fast. The speed is so effortless that you simply don't notice it.
Perhaps the other thing to mention is that the TC is very poor and will limit the power in the first 3 gears on almost any surface at full throttle. If you want the best from the car (and to save the rear pads) then don't drive it with the traction on, in fact I would say it was dangerous when pulling out of a junction.
Perhaps the other thing to mention is that the TC is very poor and will limit the power in the first 3 gears on almost any surface at full throttle. If you want the best from the car (and to save the rear pads) then don't drive it with the traction on, in fact I would say it was dangerous when pulling out of a junction.
I haven't dared drive it with traction control off yet but might give it a go.
I have had a couple of scares recently pulling out of junctions onto 70mph roads where I need fast acceleration to get out.... I pushed the M1 button to get the power but also accidently hit the speed limit button without realising and the car would not shift once I had pulled out and had cars bearing down on me.....not fun especially when it takes a good few seconds to realise the mistake i have made and then disengage the limit button before the cars power saved my ass
I have been considering getting the car remapped to around 700bhp.... partly because I think it would make the car feel even more special but mostly to get more mid range torque which will make feeling the power much more effective and easy in 3rd gear (as thats the one gear you can actually feel it as 1st and 2nd will likely spin up the tyres) and higher gears means doing silly speeds. It would also be good to have that power without having to rev the car hard or give it loads of throttle. I just dont like revving my cars beyond around 5,500 rpm max as it feels like you're thrashing them
If I was to get it done it would be via somewhere like Evolve or DMS.... a good one.
Anyone else had it done?
I have had a couple of scares recently pulling out of junctions onto 70mph roads where I need fast acceleration to get out.... I pushed the M1 button to get the power but also accidently hit the speed limit button without realising and the car would not shift once I had pulled out and had cars bearing down on me.....not fun especially when it takes a good few seconds to realise the mistake i have made and then disengage the limit button before the cars power saved my ass
I have been considering getting the car remapped to around 700bhp.... partly because I think it would make the car feel even more special but mostly to get more mid range torque which will make feeling the power much more effective and easy in 3rd gear (as thats the one gear you can actually feel it as 1st and 2nd will likely spin up the tyres) and higher gears means doing silly speeds. It would also be good to have that power without having to rev the car hard or give it loads of throttle. I just dont like revving my cars beyond around 5,500 rpm max as it feels like you're thrashing them
If I was to get it done it would be via somewhere like Evolve or DMS.... a good one.
Anyone else had it done?
Edward-25gc3 said:
I haven't dared drive it with traction control off yet but might give it a go.
I have had a couple of scares recently pulling out of junctions onto 70mph roads where I need fast acceleration to get out.... I pushed the M1 button to get the power but also accidently hit the speed limit button without realising and the car would not shift once I had pulled out and had cars bearing down on me.....not fun especially when it takes a good few seconds to realise the mistake i have made and then disengage the limit button before the cars power saved my ass
I have been considering getting the car remapped to around 700bhp.... partly because I think it would make the car feel even more special but mostly to get more mid range torque which will make feeling the power much more effective and easy in 3rd gear (as thats the one gear you can actually feel it as 1st and 2nd will likely spin up the tyres) and higher gears means doing silly speeds. It would also be good to have that power without having to rev the car hard or give it loads of throttle. I just dont like revving my cars beyond around 5,500 rpm max as it feels like you're thrashing them
If I was to get it done it would be via somewhere like Evolve or DMS.... a good one.
Anyone else had it done?
I don't have an M5 but an M6GC same engine bit less weight and of course better looking I have had a couple of scares recently pulling out of junctions onto 70mph roads where I need fast acceleration to get out.... I pushed the M1 button to get the power but also accidently hit the speed limit button without realising and the car would not shift once I had pulled out and had cars bearing down on me.....not fun especially when it takes a good few seconds to realise the mistake i have made and then disengage the limit button before the cars power saved my ass
I have been considering getting the car remapped to around 700bhp.... partly because I think it would make the car feel even more special but mostly to get more mid range torque which will make feeling the power much more effective and easy in 3rd gear (as thats the one gear you can actually feel it as 1st and 2nd will likely spin up the tyres) and higher gears means doing silly speeds. It would also be good to have that power without having to rev the car hard or give it loads of throttle. I just dont like revving my cars beyond around 5,500 rpm max as it feels like you're thrashing them
If I was to get it done it would be via somewhere like Evolve or DMS.... a good one.
Anyone else had it done?
I think you need to get your car checked over there must be something wrong with it (or you maybe
) if 565 bhps and the similar torques isn't enough to enjoy driving it and having fun? Try driving on the paddles, try squeezing the throttle rather than as some suggest stabbing or mashing it, keep the revs in the mid range honestly there's no need to rev the nuts out of it to make it epically quick. Play with the M1 and M2 settings to get your ideal mix. I think you need to get to know your car before adding another 150 bhp which will help your traction control no end and make it even harder to drive 
It will also make it harder to sell so possibly an expensive mistake.
What tyres are you wearing, I had Pirelli on when I bought mine and changing to Michelin made a huge difference to the better
It is a big heavy car but no one I know finds it slow and dull, maybe it's not the right car for you? Maybe consider power and weight or even power and wait;)
My M6 is ballistically quick and a real treat to drive every day, give it a bit more time and if you still feel the same move it on there's plenty of other treats out there to try
Stever said:
I don't have an M5 but an M6GC same engine bit less weight and of course better looking
I think you need to get your car checked over there must be something wrong with it (or you maybe ) if 565 bhps and the similar torques isn't enough to enjoy driving it and having fun? Try driving on the paddles, try squeezing the throttle rather than as some suggest stabbing or mashing it, keep the revs in the mid range honestly there's no need to rev the nuts out of it to make it epically quick. Play with the M1 and M2 settings to get your ideal mix. I think you need to get to know your car before adding another 150 bhp which will help your traction control no end and make it even harder to drive
It will also make it harder to sell so possibly an expensive mistake.
What tyres are you wearing, I had Pirelli on when I bought mine and changing to Michelin made a huge difference to the better
It is a big heavy car but no one I know finds it slow and dull, maybe it's not the right car for you? Maybe consider power and weight or even power and wait;)
My M6 is ballistically quick and a real treat to drive every day, give it a bit more time and if you still feel the same move it on there's plenty of other treats out there to try
Thanks, some useful advice there. I think I will take your advice and just experiment more with the car as it is. Mostly to get used to using full throttle safely, manually changing gears to find the sweet spot and also be happier revving the car knowing she can handle the higher revs. I went out with a friend in his M4 recently who gave it full throttle almost everywhere and I was sat in the passenger seat cringing thinking "poor car going through this abuse". Maybe my mindset just need to change.I think you need to get your car checked over there must be something wrong with it (or you maybe
) if 565 bhps and the similar torques isn't enough to enjoy driving it and having fun? Try driving on the paddles, try squeezing the throttle rather than as some suggest stabbing or mashing it, keep the revs in the mid range honestly there's no need to rev the nuts out of it to make it epically quick. Play with the M1 and M2 settings to get your ideal mix. I think you need to get to know your car before adding another 150 bhp which will help your traction control no end and make it even harder to drive It will also make it harder to sell so possibly an expensive mistake.
What tyres are you wearing, I had Pirelli on when I bought mine and changing to Michelin made a huge difference to the better
It is a big heavy car but no one I know finds it slow and dull, maybe it's not the right car for you? Maybe consider power and weight or even power and wait;)
My M6 is ballistically quick and a real treat to drive every day, give it a bit more time and if you still feel the same move it on there's plenty of other treats out there to try
The fact my M5 has a sytner warranty for the next 9 months should also give me enough confidence to "thrash" it a bit more and not worry about anything breaking. Plus ill lose the warranty if I do map it so best not to.
The car has new michelin pilot sports 4 S's all round .
Calza said:
Have you considered a little play with the exhust? Opening it up a little will do wonders for the experience!
I have thought about it but think if I am going for more noise I would rather have more turbo sounds via open air filters instead of possible exhaust drone which I hateSaying that I cant justify spending c£2,000 on a venturi intake kit just for the noise.
Chris722 said:
I have had mine for four years now. I get what you are saying as in the wet or cold it has too much power and it is difficult to keep the wheels from lighting up. I find the throttle response a tad slow when I floor it as I think it has to try and work out how much power it can unleash! I use mine for mainly long journeys etc with family and find it excels on motorways where it is super comfy and has so much power when needed. I struggle to think what I would replace it with although I spend a lot of time looking but have yet to find anything that makes me want to move without spending an additional 30k.
I used the car over weekend for a trip to cornwall (300 miles each way) and it was absolutely brilliant, even the kids didnt mind the long journey in it. For something which the family approve of and to use every day it's perfect so I could replace it with anything else in this way.I was hoping taking it on the track would make me really love the car but as mentioned it ended up being a stressful experience with so many other much faster cars out on track. Maybe a bit more experience of track days and it'll come good.
I have a terrible habit of swopping cars every 6 months trying to find the right one, I am really hoping to keep this M5 for a good few years and hoping to discover that it is the right one for me.
Edward-25gc3 said:
I have thought about it but think if I am going for more noise I would rather have more turbo sounds via open air filters instead of possible exhaust drone which I hate
Saying that I cant justify spending c£2,000 on a venturi intake kit just for the noise.
You can tap into the backboxes for only a few hundred quid. It really gives it the noise it needs, but you keep the valves there for a bit of sensibleness. Saying that I cant justify spending c£2,000 on a venturi intake kit just for the noise.
I'm not sure you'd hear an intake noise that well inside the car either.
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