997 GT3 RS lower control arm query

[martinr007]

Hi,

My 997.1 GT3 RS has just had it's MOT at my local OPC and received 4 x advisories saying that the front and rear LCA's bushings were split. The tech said there was no excessive movement and no need to replace them but to keep an eye on them, they gave a price of £6.5k to replace all 4.

I wondered if there was a typo with the price so did a check, and sure enough genuine LCA's are around £1,130 on Design911. I'm wondering if there's any point in going with Elephant Racing or RSS versions or is the stock version as good?

Assuming the 4 arms are +/- £4.5k, is £2k on labour (I'm assuming a geo is included) reasonable? I thought it would take around 4 - 6hrs labour so am thinking £1.5k (think my OPC charges +/- £500 for a geo) is a tad high?

Finally, can anyone suggest any Porsche suspension specialists in Scotland to do the job? As much as I'd like to drive down to Centre of Gravity it's an 8.5hr drive!

Cheers,
Martin

[shantybeater]

I have no direct experience but I'd probably go RSS or Elephant racing due to the fact they are rebuildable (thus more economical in the long run).

[Slippydiff]

If the outer balljoints are good and serviceable, there’s no need to bin the arms.

The inner end of the arm with either a rubber bush or a spherical bearing can be bought from Tarett :

https://tarett.com/collections/control-arms-996/pr...

The thrust arm bush can be replaced with a solid aluminium puck (like those used in the Cup cars) :

https://tarett.com/collections/monoballs-bushings-...

or a replacement, standard or more durable bush is available from Rennline :

https://www.rennline.com/street-thrust-arm-bushing...

https://www.rennline.com/rennline-hd-thrust-arm-bu...

If you decide to go aftermarket arms, I’d utilise the Tarett or RSS items rather than the Elephant versions.

[martinr007]

Slippydiff said:

If the outer balljoints are good and serviceable, there’s no need to bin the arms.

The inner end of the arm with either a rubber bush or a spherical bearing can be bought from Tarett :

https://tarett.com/collections/control-arms-996/pr...

The thrust arm bush can be replaced with a solid aluminium puck (like those used in the Cup cars) :

https://tarett.com/collections/monoballs-bushings-...

or a replacement, standard or more durable bush is available from Rennline :

https://www.rennline.com/street-thrust-arm-bushing...

https://www.rennline.com/rennline-hd-thrust-arm-bu...

If you decide to go aftermarket arms, I’d utilise the Tarett or RSS items rather than the Elephant versions.

Hi Slippy,

Thanks for all the info, I did think the bushes were replaceable but just that it was time consuming and so almost more economical to replace everything.

Buying / replacing the inner control arms looks a doddle as they’re just bolted on.

When you say if the outer ball joints are serviceable then there’s no need to bin the arms, can’t a ball joint rebuild kit be used? I.e keep the OEM arms but install a new ball joint kit, new thrust arm bush and new inner control arm?

I’ll ask my OPC if they’d rebuild but am imagining they’ll tell me to Foxtrot Oscar.

How big a DIY task is this? I’m reasonably handy with a spanner and my dad used to be a mechanic many moons ago . I’m wondering if we could change out the LCA’s and then get a pro to do the geometry.

Cheers,
Martin

[ronmac7]

Try having a chat with David Phillips, Porsche and Ferrari indy, he is located at Dundee Terrace Edinburgh, he is very good, and might help you out.

[Slippydiff]

martinr007 said:

Hi Slippy,

Thanks for all the info, I did think the bushes were replaceable but just that it was time consuming and so almost more economical to replace everything.

Buying / replacing the inner control arms looks a doddle as they’re just bolted on.

When you say if the outer ball joints are serviceable then there’s no need to bin the arms, can’t a ball joint rebuild kit be used? I.e keep the OEM arms but install a new ball joint kit, new thrust arm bush and new inner control arm?

I’ll ask my OPC if they’d rebuild but am imagining they’ll tell me to Foxtrot Oscar.

How big a DIY task is this? I’m reasonably handy with a spanner and my dad used to be a mechanic many moons ago . I’m wondering if we could change out the LCA’s and then get a pro to do the geometry.

Cheers,
Martin

It's all fairly basic stuff ... unless the inner wishbone bolts have seized in the centre of the bushes, at which point it rapidly becomes a complete 'mare.

The balljoints on factory arms are sealed items and cannot be replaced, so you'd need to bin the arm. If this is the case, then as I said, you'd be better off buying new complete arms from the likes of Tarett or RSS.

You used to be able to buy the inner end of the arm with the bush for the 996 GT3 split front arms, but it looks like they were never made available separately for the 997 GT3. However they may be available through the Motorsport department. It's probably worthwhile having a chat with Mike at Sports and Classic to see if he can get them.

https://sportsandclassic.com/

[martinr007]

ronmac7 said:

Try having a chat with David Phillips, Porsche and Ferrari indy, he is located at Dundee Terrace Edinburgh, he is very good, and might help you out.

Thanks for this name, another garage I haven’t heard of so good to know of alternatives.

[martinr007]

Slippydiff said:

It's all fairly basic stuff ... unless the inner wishbone bolts have seized in the centre of the bushes, at which point it rapidly becomes a complete 'mare.

The balljoints on factory arms are sealed items and cannot be replaced, so you'd need to bin the arm. If this is the case, then as I said, you'd be better off buying new complete arms from the likes of Tarett or RSS.

You used to be able to buy the inner end of the arm with the bush for the 996 GT3 split front arms, but it looks like they were never made available separately for the 997 GT3. However they may be available through the Motorsport department. It's probably worthwhile having a chat with Mike at Sports and Classic to see if he can get them.

https://sportsandclassic.com/

Hi Slippy,

Ahh I didn’t realise the factory ball joints are sealed / not serviceable. If the ball joints are goosed I’ll get new Tarett / RSS arms and can rebuild in future if needed.
I’m going to get my car up on jacks in the next day or two, so will check the bushes myself.

I’ve heard nothing but good things about Mike and he’s closer than COG so another option.

[BrotherMouzone]

martinr007 said:

I’ve heard nothing but good things about Mike and he’s closer than COG so another option.

Mike & his S&C team looks after my 996 GT3; excellent indy.

[VPD255M]

Is it the inner bushing or the bushing around the 'puck' - be aware that the rubber bushing around the puck has gaps in it, i.e. it can possibly look like it's split when it's not, especially if it's being reported for all four corners and the comment that there is no excessive play? Will try and upload a photo.

[VPD255M]

not the best photo, but hopefully just about shows what I mean

Edited by VPD255M on Saturday 6th August 11:52

[martinr007]

VPD255M said:

Is it the inner bushing or the bushing around the 'puck' - be aware that the rubber bushing around the puck has gaps in it, i.e. it can possibly look like it's split when it's not, especially if it's being reported for all four corners and the comment that there is no excessive play? Will try and upload a photo.

Thanks for this info and the perfect timing! I had the car up on my jack stands this morning and from what I can see, it’s only the puck bushing that looks split. The inner ball joint looks fine. I see what you mean about a groove / ring around the bushing, mine does look like there’s a little split though. I tried “waggling” things as much as I could and couldn’t budge anything.

[MDL111]

Slightly off topic, but is that what produces the slight knocking sound at the front when the wheel is turned (in motion)? Or do I have a different suspension issue (I figure some the people who open this thread probably know)
Cheers

[VPD255M]

MDL111 said:

Slightly off topic, but is that what produces the slight knocking sound at the front when the wheel is turned (in motion)? Or do I have a different suspension issue (I figure some the people who open this thread probably know)
Cheers

Suspect that this is the damper top mounts
Can't get a link to the threads to work - but Google 997 GT3 top mounts and should bring up some PistonHeads threads on the topic

Edited by VPD255M on Sunday 7th August 20:57

[MDL111]

VPD255M said:

MDL111 said:

Slightly off topic, but is that what produces the slight knocking sound at the front when the wheel is turned (in motion)? Or do I have a different suspension issue (I figure some the people who open this thread probably know)
Cheers

Suspect that this is the damper top mounts
Can't get a link to the threads to work - but Google 997 GT3 top mounts and should bring up some PistonHeads threads on the topic

Edited by VPD255M on Sunday 7th August 20:57

Thank you, appreciated

[ttdan]

martinr007 said:

Thanks for this info and the perfect timing! I had the car up on my jack stands this morning and from what I can see, it’s only the puck bushing that looks split. The inner ball joint looks fine. I see what you mean about a groove / ring around the bushing, mine does look like there’s a little split though. I tried “waggling” things as much as I could and couldn’t budge anything.

That’s not split. It’s just the “skirt” of the rubber insert edges fading / falling back a bit with age. I suspect the actual bush I’d fine and it’s just OPC trying to pull your pants down.

[martinr007]

ttdan said:

That’s not split. It’s just the “skirt” of the rubber insert edges fading / falling back a bit with age. I suspect the actual bush I’d fine and it’s just OPC trying to pull your pants down.

Thanks for this, this makes me feel a bit more at ease about them. I’m going to jack the car up again on all 4 corners, get the wheels off and do a proper under body clean so I’ll get a better look at them.
The next service will be with an Indy I’ve heard nothing but good things about so I’ll ask them to check.

Cheers,
Martin

[CoolHands]

I used to work in a Ford main dealer. At the time we used to frequently change track control arm bushes on Ford sierras in for routine serving. It was a ‘grab’. It was never wrongly reported ie we would only report them as needing changing when they had deteriorated, it could be upheld if someone challenged it that they were worn (bit like your pics), but nonetheless they did not really need changing. It was usually just the edge of the rubber surface lifting from the metal.

I suspect yours is similar.

On another note - slow hand clap for Porsche for a) the price and b) the fact the entire arm supposedly needs changing if the bush were worn or torn.