Couple of questions before pushing button on Polestar 2
Discussion
So - we tested one on Saturday - DM with all the packs. We went in slightly sceptical but open-minded; came away really quite impressed. Seriously rapid; though not really 'engaging' to drive for anybody who has an ounce of petrol running through their veins. However, it certainly wasn't dull either; and struck me as a very comfortable place to be. In summary, it is a seriously impressive piece of kit / technology. I run my own consultancy, so financially it is a no-brainer to lease through the business - I would then use it for c. 15k business mileage pa and we would then look to put another 10kpa on it for school-run, family duties etc.
My wife and I currently do c. 40k pa between us spread across a 6 year old 120D; and a coming up for 3 year old E400D Estate. We have 1x 10 year old, 1 labrador & we both work. Living out in the sticks we need two cars. The plan is to replace one of these; but we feel it is too small to replace the Merc, (which I think is a long-time keeper as it has a sublime engine and air suspension); whilst it is too big to replace the BMW, (on 70k, great to drive, owes us nothing and seriously cheap to run).
Also, I do a weekly business run from Shropshire to Bracknell - 320m round-trip. My client does not yet have a charging point on-site; so I know that I will need to stop and charge on the way back each time.
So - questions for your wisdom please;-
Has anybody moved to a P2 for family transport (including a dog) from an estate or SUV - if so, how have you got on?
Is the performance pack worth the extra £50 on monthly lease cost?
My client does have 3-phase power on-site but no charging point. Is it feasible to charge without a charger and does 3-phase make it more effective?
What are people's real experience of charging on motorway network. Can you normally access a charger, and how long should I plan to boost the battery by, say, 50% and what will it cost me?
Are there any other cars I should be thinking about? I tried the BMWi4 and have to say it was a better drive than the p2 - but I would be looking at a 12m+ timescale and an extra £150 pm
Sorry for the ramble - and thanks in advance!
Spud
My wife and I currently do c. 40k pa between us spread across a 6 year old 120D; and a coming up for 3 year old E400D Estate. We have 1x 10 year old, 1 labrador & we both work. Living out in the sticks we need two cars. The plan is to replace one of these; but we feel it is too small to replace the Merc, (which I think is a long-time keeper as it has a sublime engine and air suspension); whilst it is too big to replace the BMW, (on 70k, great to drive, owes us nothing and seriously cheap to run).
Also, I do a weekly business run from Shropshire to Bracknell - 320m round-trip. My client does not yet have a charging point on-site; so I know that I will need to stop and charge on the way back each time.
So - questions for your wisdom please;-
Has anybody moved to a P2 for family transport (including a dog) from an estate or SUV - if so, how have you got on?
Is the performance pack worth the extra £50 on monthly lease cost?
My client does have 3-phase power on-site but no charging point. Is it feasible to charge without a charger and does 3-phase make it more effective?
What are people's real experience of charging on motorway network. Can you normally access a charger, and how long should I plan to boost the battery by, say, 50% and what will it cost me?
Are there any other cars I should be thinking about? I tried the BMWi4 and have to say it was a better drive than the p2 - but I would be looking at a 12m+ timescale and an extra £150 pm
Sorry for the ramble - and thanks in advance!
Spud
I'd assume from a space perspective your test drive would have confirmed if it's acceptable? They aren't a particularly practical car either for passengers or boot space.
The performance pack lifts the looks of the car but is unlikely to offer much in day to day driving, only you can decide if it's worth £50 a month.
Rapid charging speeds are relatively poor in 2022. max speed of 150kW but drops very quickly and is below 100kW by 50% charge. Charger availability will depend on numerous factors like location, time of day etc. so difficult to comment. You could possibly charge on a 3-pin granny charger at your destination but seems unlikely. A 50% charge is likely to cost you around £20 dependent on provider for 40kWh or so.
If range, charging speeds and practicality are priorities the Kia EV6 or Tesla Model Y would seem to be worth a look as improve on the P2 in all those areas. They do have a habit of being quite pricey on company car lists though and no idea on availability timescales.
Good luck with your choice.
The performance pack lifts the looks of the car but is unlikely to offer much in day to day driving, only you can decide if it's worth £50 a month.
Rapid charging speeds are relatively poor in 2022. max speed of 150kW but drops very quickly and is below 100kW by 50% charge. Charger availability will depend on numerous factors like location, time of day etc. so difficult to comment. You could possibly charge on a 3-pin granny charger at your destination but seems unlikely. A 50% charge is likely to cost you around £20 dependent on provider for 40kWh or so.
If range, charging speeds and practicality are priorities the Kia EV6 or Tesla Model Y would seem to be worth a look as improve on the P2 in all those areas. They do have a habit of being quite pricey on company car lists though and no idea on availability timescales.
Good luck with your choice.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 8th August 11:46
Re. size, we went from current BMW X3 to P2 and have two children (10 and 13), and a mini Dachshund. I'd say it's on the small size in terms of luggage capacity, but saying that, we've not struggled yet. Interior space for passengers is fine. Biggest irritation in the boot is that the underfloor storage is pretty much pointless.
Have you considered the BMW iX? I've always been a saloon person (never enjoyed driving a SUV), but was amazed at the massive interior space, luxury and ride comfort. It didn't feel like a 5 metre long 2.5 ton SUV on the test drive.
Throw in all the new tech and I ordered one. I get mine in 2 months, but there are a number of physical cars in stock at dealers for quick-ish delivery. This was the 40 model.
I agree the Polestar 2 is a lovely car with some neat features. I had an extensive test drive but didn't like the cramped gloomy coloured interior. I also run my own consultancy, so it was a no brainer to lease it the iX, even if it is a tad more than other EVs.
Throw in all the new tech and I ordered one. I get mine in 2 months, but there are a number of physical cars in stock at dealers for quick-ish delivery. This was the 40 model.
I agree the Polestar 2 is a lovely car with some neat features. I had an extensive test drive but didn't like the cramped gloomy coloured interior. I also run my own consultancy, so it was a no brainer to lease it the iX, even if it is a tad more than other EVs.
raspy said:
Have you considered the BMW iX? I've always been a saloon person (never enjoyed driving a SUV), but was amazed at the massive interior space, luxury and ride comfort. It didn't feel like a 5 metre long 2.5 ton SUV on the test drive.
Throw in all the new tech and I ordered one. I get mine in 2 months, but there are a number of physical cars in stock at dealers for quick-ish delivery. This was the 40 model.
I agree the Polestar 2 is a lovely car with some neat features. I had an extensive test drive but didn't like the cramped gloomy coloured interior. I also run my own consultancy, so it was a no brainer to lease it the iX, even if it is a tad more than other EVs.
The iX is pretty much twice the price of the P2 though with lease costs to match (SM P2 v 40 iX = £43k v £77k, DM P2 v iX 50 = £49.5k v £107k) Even the iX3 is signifcantly more expensive at £63k.Throw in all the new tech and I ordered one. I get mine in 2 months, but there are a number of physical cars in stock at dealers for quick-ish delivery. This was the 40 model.
I agree the Polestar 2 is a lovely car with some neat features. I had an extensive test drive but didn't like the cramped gloomy coloured interior. I also run my own consultancy, so it was a no brainer to lease it the iX, even if it is a tad more than other EVs.
SWoll said:
The iX is pretty much twice the price of the P2 though with lease costs to match (SM P2 v 40 iX = £43k v £77k, DM P2 v iX 50 = £49.5k v £107k) Even the iX3 is signifcantly more expensive at £63k.
Oh I see. What about an i-Pace for the OP? A Jaguar dealer just emailed me about an in-stock model (HSE spec) and the lease costs are coming in at over 20% cheaper than the iX 40 I ordered, despite being a similar list price. Maybe it's because it's an older design and people want the newer designed EVs? I don't know.
It's very interesting simulating the route through 'a better route planner' app or website with the car you want to and compare different charging strategies (shorter, but more often or fewer and longer). It seems a one way journey could easily deplete 80% of the battery, so that's quite a significant charge to take on in only one stop as the charging curve isn't great:
ABRP actually advises 2 charging stops around Birmingham, adding 32 minutes of charging, for a total time of 6h13min!
The most comfortable would definitely be charging onsite with something like a Juice Booster 2 which will support the Polestar at it's max AC charge rate of 11kW. Of course this is heavily dependant on the capacity of the electrics at the charging site, you'd need to check the fuse and any other loads to see what spare capacity they have but even a lower charge rate of 7kW would go a long way to help. They also have 10m extensions and you could also extend the wiring in front of the charger but that would be a very meaty cable!
P.S. Keep in mind DC fast charging can suffer quite badly in winter depending on the model (ideally has preheating based on GPS, but usually suboptimal if you have to charge shortly after setting off for the return trip if the pack is cold soaked). It may be worth checking Bjorn Nyland's YouTube channel to see winter driving performance and charging characteristics.
ABRP actually advises 2 charging stops around Birmingham, adding 32 minutes of charging, for a total time of 6h13min!
The most comfortable would definitely be charging onsite with something like a Juice Booster 2 which will support the Polestar at it's max AC charge rate of 11kW. Of course this is heavily dependant on the capacity of the electrics at the charging site, you'd need to check the fuse and any other loads to see what spare capacity they have but even a lower charge rate of 7kW would go a long way to help. They also have 10m extensions and you could also extend the wiring in front of the charger but that would be a very meaty cable!
P.S. Keep in mind DC fast charging can suffer quite badly in winter depending on the model (ideally has preheating based on GPS, but usually suboptimal if you have to charge shortly after setting off for the return trip if the pack is cold soaked). It may be worth checking Bjorn Nyland's YouTube channel to see winter driving performance and charging characteristics.
Edited by HelldogBE on Monday 8th August 16:26
Thanks all - some really useful stuff here.
Charging seems to be the big quandry for my weekly 300+ mile round-trip... Slightly apprehensive on that one if I'm honest. I'm trying to persuade Polestar to lend me one for 24 hours to actually test in real life... They will do 9-5 for me but that's not going to work as I need to put in a full day at Bracknell.
I-Pace is a good shout although my wife is not so keen...
Had a 50 mile drive in the E400D on mix of A&B roads - definitely a keeper; so pretty sure the 120D will go. Rather conveniently the sale of that should pay off the bulk of the outstanding finance on the Merc.
So - now wondering if anything out there that's slightly smaller, and therefore cheaper than the P2 but with decent range. Also needs to be comfy for long drives and fairly nice to drive.... Somebody suggested I look at the Cupra Born....?
Charging seems to be the big quandry for my weekly 300+ mile round-trip... Slightly apprehensive on that one if I'm honest. I'm trying to persuade Polestar to lend me one for 24 hours to actually test in real life... They will do 9-5 for me but that's not going to work as I need to put in a full day at Bracknell.
I-Pace is a good shout although my wife is not so keen...
Had a 50 mile drive in the E400D on mix of A&B roads - definitely a keeper; so pretty sure the 120D will go. Rather conveniently the sale of that should pay off the bulk of the outstanding finance on the Merc.
So - now wondering if anything out there that's slightly smaller, and therefore cheaper than the P2 but with decent range. Also needs to be comfy for long drives and fairly nice to drive.... Somebody suggested I look at the Cupra Born....?
iPace has worse range and charging and will be more expensive than the P2 so probably not a great idea if those are your concerns.
The Cupra Born is a VW ID3 in a different frock. More limited interior space than the Polestar and a smaller boot. decent range with the bigger batteries but lacklustre performance and below average charging speeds (125kW maximum).
A single motor P2 or Kia EV6 should be considerably cheaper than the quote you currently have for a fully loaded DM and no less efficient in real world driving? I'd rather spend time in one of those than an ID3/Born personally.
The new Kia Niro EV might also be an option?
The Cupra Born is a VW ID3 in a different frock. More limited interior space than the Polestar and a smaller boot. decent range with the bigger batteries but lacklustre performance and below average charging speeds (125kW maximum).
A single motor P2 or Kia EV6 should be considerably cheaper than the quote you currently have for a fully loaded DM and no less efficient in real world driving? I'd rather spend time in one of those than an ID3/Born personally.
The new Kia Niro EV might also be an option?
Good point re: E400D and using it.
However, I have my reasons:-
Cost - c. £70 diesel v. £20 electric each round trip. Plus with the business paying my lease on electric car, I won't be able to take 45p/mile out tax free.
The E400D is the last of an era - silky-smooth and bl**dy rapid 6 cyl. diesels. I'd be tempted to keep it long-term - the weekly round trip will mount up to 15k pa alone.
Client perception - I am doing quite a bit of work within the agri-tech sector which has a massive sustainability agenda. A big diesel estate will be perceived as Satan by some of my clients!
However, I have my reasons:-
Cost - c. £70 diesel v. £20 electric each round trip. Plus with the business paying my lease on electric car, I won't be able to take 45p/mile out tax free.
The E400D is the last of an era - silky-smooth and bl**dy rapid 6 cyl. diesels. I'd be tempted to keep it long-term - the weekly round trip will mount up to 15k pa alone.
Client perception - I am doing quite a bit of work within the agri-tech sector which has a massive sustainability agenda. A big diesel estate will be perceived as Satan by some of my clients!
Spudmaster said:
Thanks all - some really useful stuff here.
Charging seems to be the big quandry for my weekly 300+ mile round-trip... Slightly apprehensive on that one if I'm honest. I'm trying to persuade Polestar to lend me one for 24 hours to actually test in real life... They will do 9-5 for me but that's not going to work as I need to put in a full day at Bracknell.
I-Pace is a good shout although my wife is not so keen...
Had a 50 mile drive in the E400D on mix of A&B roads - definitely a keeper; so pretty sure the 120D will go. Rather conveniently the sale of that should pay off the bulk of the outstanding finance on the Merc.
So - now wondering if anything out there that's slightly smaller, and therefore cheaper than the P2 but with decent range. Also needs to be comfy for long drives and fairly nice to drive.... Somebody suggested I look at the Cupra Born....?
While an actual test drive will give you a good feel for the car's driving & comfort. With an EV the range & charging is greatly affected by the weather conditions. Something like having a prominent headwind, combined with freezing rain and standing water will not only impact your consumption by 30%, but also the charging speeds. I've not driven the P2, but I have tried its Volvo XC40 cousin (both in diesel and electric variant) and it's extremely lardy with an enormous consumption IMHO.Charging seems to be the big quandry for my weekly 300+ mile round-trip... Slightly apprehensive on that one if I'm honest. I'm trying to persuade Polestar to lend me one for 24 hours to actually test in real life... They will do 9-5 for me but that's not going to work as I need to put in a full day at Bracknell.
I-Pace is a good shout although my wife is not so keen...
Had a 50 mile drive in the E400D on mix of A&B roads - definitely a keeper; so pretty sure the 120D will go. Rather conveniently the sale of that should pay off the bulk of the outstanding finance on the Merc.
So - now wondering if anything out there that's slightly smaller, and therefore cheaper than the P2 but with decent range. Also needs to be comfy for long drives and fairly nice to drive.... Somebody suggested I look at the Cupra Born....?
I've done the calculations on ABRP again and for me if you can live with it the sensible way is to go for a Tesla Model 3 Long Range with 18" Aero wheels. It only needs one 10-minute top up at Warwick (over halfway back) and with its great heat scavenging and battery preconditioning you can be sure you'll be getting pretty good charging speeds (as the car has enough time to preheat the battery by the time you get there). There's plenty of alternates to supercharge and if you could even do a tiny bit of destination charging with a 2kW domestic socket you would need very little fastcharging on the way (less than 5 minutes).
Definitely not a Tesla fan boy, but from the point of supercharging, aerodynamic and electric efficiency, heat management it's simply unparalleled. From what I hear they are quite a good steer too. But might lack some accoustic refinement and (interior) quality. I'm afraid if you buy an 'inferior' product and start hating the charging you'll end up using your E400d for the winter months (and maybe all the other ones too, as efficiency is a b
h at 70mph or higher). Also with more rapid charging you're not only losing a lot of time, but those miles can be nearly as costly as pumping gas (when the prices settle down again) and you'll end up buying expensive refreshments on top.P.S. the cupra born needs 40 minutes charging and same problem with preconditioning/winter charging performance and range again.
Edited by HelldogBE on Monday 8th August 23:31
Thank you HellDog - this sort of stuff is really useful!
I'm with my Bracknell client tomorrow, so will fish and see if they have any plans for an on-site charger...
Failing that, it sounds like I need to test a Tesla to access the fast-charging network. Hopefully they might agree to an extended test drive.
On (yet another!) tangent, I found a great lease deal on an i4 40 last night with 2x packs that actually came out cheaper than the P2. It is a much nicer drive and has max range of 367 miles, which should hopefully give me the confidence to do the 1 way down each time comfortably... If I can persuade the client to invest in on-site charging - that could be the solution...?
I'm with my Bracknell client tomorrow, so will fish and see if they have any plans for an on-site charger...
Failing that, it sounds like I need to test a Tesla to access the fast-charging network. Hopefully they might agree to an extended test drive.
On (yet another!) tangent, I found a great lease deal on an i4 40 last night with 2x packs that actually came out cheaper than the P2. It is a much nicer drive and has max range of 367 miles, which should hopefully give me the confidence to do the 1 way down each time comfortably... If I can persuade the client to invest in on-site charging - that could be the solution...?
Spudmaster said:
Thank you HellDog - this sort of stuff is really useful!
I'm with my Bracknell client tomorrow, so will fish and see if they have any plans for an on-site charger...
Failing that, it sounds like I need to test a Tesla to access the fast-charging network. Hopefully they might agree to an extended test drive.
On (yet another!) tangent, I found a great lease deal on an i4 40 last night with 2x packs that actually came out cheaper than the P2. It is a much nicer drive and has max range of 367 miles, which should hopefully give me the confidence to do the 1 way down each time comfortably... If I can persuade the client to invest in on-site charging - that could be the solution...?
367 miles is based on everything being perfect and travelling at optimum speeds. At motorway speeds in perfect weather 280-300 miles seems closer to the truth based on tests I've seen, in the winter it'll be 200-250 dependent on how bad the weather is.I'm with my Bracknell client tomorrow, so will fish and see if they have any plans for an on-site charger...
Failing that, it sounds like I need to test a Tesla to access the fast-charging network. Hopefully they might agree to an extended test drive.
On (yet another!) tangent, I found a great lease deal on an i4 40 last night with 2x packs that actually came out cheaper than the P2. It is a much nicer drive and has max range of 367 miles, which should hopefully give me the confidence to do the 1 way down each time comfortably... If I can persuade the client to invest in on-site charging - that could be the solution...?
Ignore manufacturers figures and research real world tests is my advice, if not I guarantee you'll be disappointed.
Spudmaster said:
Good point re: E400D and using it.
However, I have my reasons:-
Cost - c. £70 diesel v. £20 electric each round trip. Plus with the business paying my lease on electric car, I won't be able to take 45p/mile out tax free.
You can still claim the 45p on the Merc if you are using it for the client meeting. Having a company car doesn't stop you.However, I have my reasons:-
Cost - c. £70 diesel v. £20 electric each round trip. Plus with the business paying my lease on electric car, I won't be able to take 45p/mile out tax free.
ajap1979 said:
I think whichever way you spin it, on a 320 mile round trip you're stopping to charge, regardless of the car you choose. I think I'd be scoping out charger sites on your regular route, are they normally quiet when you pass, reliable etc
Not on an EQS, although granted that's probably out of OP's budget. Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff