Discussion
Depends what you're wanting from the car, but mine is a "do everything" daily driver. I went from a Focus ST-3 (Mk 3) to an M140i. The Focus is a great car with a willing, smooth, revvy engine with lots of torque and reasonable handling, but the BMW is in another league, in terms of build quality, comfort, performance and driving experience (as you'd expect from a car that was more expensive new). I've also found running costs on the BMW to be lower than the Ford as it has longer servicing intervals and gives better mpg! My local BMW main dealer is also excellent.
However, the BMW is let down by the standard kit fitted and, where the Ford has it-a-plenty, I had to tick a lot of options boxes on the M140i to match it. Given that most on the market are "poverty spec" ex-lease cars, you'll need to be fussy to find the right spec if there are particular options you want.
Chris
However, the BMW is let down by the standard kit fitted and, where the Ford has it-a-plenty, I had to tick a lot of options boxes on the M140i to match it. Given that most on the market are "poverty spec" ex-lease cars, you'll need to be fussy to find the right spec if there are particular options you want.
Chris
ScoobyChris said:
Depends what you're wanting from the car, but mine is a "do everything" daily driver. I went from a Focus ST-3 (Mk 3) to an M140i. The Focus is a great car with a willing, smooth, revvy engine with lots of torque and reasonable handling, but the BMW is in another league, in terms of build quality, comfort, performance and driving experience (as you'd expect from a car that was more expensive new). I've also found running costs on the BMW to be lower than the Ford as it has longer servicing intervals and gives better mpg! My local BMW main dealer is also excellent.
However, the BMW is let down by the standard kit fitted and, where the Ford has it-a-plenty, I had to tick a lot of options boxes on the M140i to match it. Given that most on the market are "poverty spec" ex-lease cars, you'll need to be fussy to find the right spec if there are particular options you want.
Chris
Thanks ScoobyChris, great insight. Question is now you've had the M140 would you go back to the focus? However, the BMW is let down by the standard kit fitted and, where the Ford has it-a-plenty, I had to tick a lot of options boxes on the M140i to match it. Given that most on the market are "poverty spec" ex-lease cars, you'll need to be fussy to find the right spec if there are particular options you want.
Chris
mr2turbogts said:
Thanks ScoobyChris, great insight. Question is now you've had the M140 would you go back to the focus?
Probably only the RS and even then, it's a bit shouty and attention seeking for me (wife, who is a non-car person, had a couple of randoms approach her in Tesco and start telling her what a great car the ST is and how their brother's cousin's best friend has one, etc, etc). Having a car that flies under the radar is quite appealing to me.Chris
mr2turbogts said:
I'll keep it short.
Budget of circa 12k
Short list
M135i
Megane RS 250/260
Astra GTC VXR
Focus ST
Where would you put your money?
At 12k it's the Astra GTC VXR, the Megane is a smidge better as a hot hatch but you'll want one with the Cup Chassis & the Recaro's.Budget of circa 12k
Short list
M135i
Megane RS 250/260
Astra GTC VXR
Focus ST
Where would you put your money?
The Recaro's are standard on the VXR get one with Nav & you get DAB as well as the Infinity upgrade. the M135 has the sweeter engine but the VXR is the better steer.
Also the switchable damping on the VXR make it a great daily as you can slacken off the ride for daily use.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207318...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208088...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205175...
Next would be the Cup Chassis Megane (with the Recaro's) they're a bit more focused & the stiff ride may not be what you want everyday, so I'd say test drive one to be sure:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206267...
The M135i would be next but for me this isn't a hot hatch compared to the two above, you'll have to hunt if you want a spec'd one:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208098...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207217...
The Focus would be last the lack of a diff means for me it's quite a way behind the Astra & Megane in the Hot Hatch stakes.
I'd go for the Mégane 250/265 if you want to track it. (would be fine on the road as well).
If you can't find a decent Mégane, the Astra would almost be as good.
M135 probably the best road car.
The Ford is not a bad car either, but wouldn't choose over the above.
If you can't find a decent Mégane, the Astra would almost be as good.
M135 probably the best road car.
The Ford is not a bad car either, but wouldn't choose over the above.
Edited by PH.sausages on Tuesday 9th August 20:57
All cars i've looked at and / or owned.
The M135i is a smaller "GT" car. The engine is the focal point as is to be expected. The kit inside is your standard BMW fair. Nice place to sit. The i-drive is fine, but can be troublesome with Android phones (you can google it - BMW and Google had a bit of a ding dong). Anyway. That aside. For me depends on the gearbox. The ZF is a good and quick gearbox. The manual, well it has more driver involvement but for me the ZF makes it a much easier daily driver and its also that bit quicker than the manual. I didn't miss the involvement of the manual all that much as the paddles and the shifts were that fast that it still made downshifts and upshifts easy when pushing on.
That is the problem with the M135/M140i for my - when pushing on, its good. Linear but in standard form it doesn't give you much warning before it legs go. Like the older 1series before it. The key to making it handle well and make it progressive and a much sharper drive are about upgrading the bracing, the suspension, arms etc. You can substitute some M3/M4 Lower Control Arms. Birds Suspension uses Bilsteins with specific dampening to the UK roads and a quaife diff. These are all mods i did to my previous 130i (different generation but the handling is similar) and it will transform it into more of the "hot hatch" you'd expect out the box. For me the biggest issue is the image of the M135i. They are just used by yobs and hooligans and as soon as you buy one, you are kind of lumped in with that image and i don't like that. - granted hot hatches have an "image" but the M135i is at the top of that set of cars for me alongside the Golf R, A45amg etc. etc. If you are ok with the image and you want a nice balance of modern tech, good engine, decent mpg, the M135i is difficult to look past but for your budget you are more towards the bottom end of the market and the earlier more leggy cars.
If you want your hot hatch to be a proper sharp drive. Its the megane. For the money i don't think you can find a better handling car without spending quite a bit extra. As ZX said, finding one with the Recaro's and the Cup Chassis is the best bet. But they are all a good sharp drive. The suspension is harder around town but as long as you can live with that compromise. Once you start pushing on it makes total sense. On track as well as the road, the car is sharp, responsive. A hint of understeer sometimes, but no issues with traction or putting the power down. The chassis can handle a lot more power than it is given stock. It is definitely a car for B-Roads and Tracks. What you give up is a bit of rear space/boot space and the whilst not bad, the interior isn't a match on the quality of the BMW. But i prefer the recaros over the BMW seats 11 days out of 10.
The VXR ZX mentions is actually a really good compromise between the two. I think as he stated the early cars had issues but the later ones i've not seen that many with issues. Unless they've been driven like absolute d*cks. The interior isn't brilliant, fit/finish but it was a step up for Vauxhall and it is certainly nicer to be in than the Renault. The Seats are lovely and you get some nice kit as standard over the Megane - not up to the spec of the BMW but as i said its a bit of a compromise. The suspension set up on the VXR is the same as in the Megane - not sure if it was "borrowed" or shared but regardless, its a great steer. Its a very good hot hatch and as such given its a vauxhall with a vxr badge alot of people will malign it despite not having experienced it. Don't listen. Drive one. You'll be surprised. 98% as sharp easier around town and has about 90% of the gadgets of the BMW. See past the badge and you have yourself a bit of bargain as prices are lower i've found.
The focus again is a compromise. MPG is not great for the performance. But its a lovely car to be in. The noise is nice, though i miss the older 2.5 5cylinder. The gearbox is good. It has plenty of room and the parts are cheap and its a reliable easy car to maintain yourself or there are plenty of specialists for Fords. You get plenty of kit. It is not as sharp as the Megane or the VXR but its not far behind. Here they are quite rare these days. Most are family man hot hatches, so its the car to go with if you have kids. But whenever i see a nice one that is well cared for i have a soft spot for it. Torque steer is a slight issue, but that can be fixed quite easily with some bushing. And the one thing that put me off, is here, most car thefts are Fords or VAG so maybe worth checking on your area too.
Hope that helps.
The M135i is a smaller "GT" car. The engine is the focal point as is to be expected. The kit inside is your standard BMW fair. Nice place to sit. The i-drive is fine, but can be troublesome with Android phones (you can google it - BMW and Google had a bit of a ding dong). Anyway. That aside. For me depends on the gearbox. The ZF is a good and quick gearbox. The manual, well it has more driver involvement but for me the ZF makes it a much easier daily driver and its also that bit quicker than the manual. I didn't miss the involvement of the manual all that much as the paddles and the shifts were that fast that it still made downshifts and upshifts easy when pushing on.
That is the problem with the M135/M140i for my - when pushing on, its good. Linear but in standard form it doesn't give you much warning before it legs go. Like the older 1series before it. The key to making it handle well and make it progressive and a much sharper drive are about upgrading the bracing, the suspension, arms etc. You can substitute some M3/M4 Lower Control Arms. Birds Suspension uses Bilsteins with specific dampening to the UK roads and a quaife diff. These are all mods i did to my previous 130i (different generation but the handling is similar) and it will transform it into more of the "hot hatch" you'd expect out the box. For me the biggest issue is the image of the M135i. They are just used by yobs and hooligans and as soon as you buy one, you are kind of lumped in with that image and i don't like that. - granted hot hatches have an "image" but the M135i is at the top of that set of cars for me alongside the Golf R, A45amg etc. etc. If you are ok with the image and you want a nice balance of modern tech, good engine, decent mpg, the M135i is difficult to look past but for your budget you are more towards the bottom end of the market and the earlier more leggy cars.
If you want your hot hatch to be a proper sharp drive. Its the megane. For the money i don't think you can find a better handling car without spending quite a bit extra. As ZX said, finding one with the Recaro's and the Cup Chassis is the best bet. But they are all a good sharp drive. The suspension is harder around town but as long as you can live with that compromise. Once you start pushing on it makes total sense. On track as well as the road, the car is sharp, responsive. A hint of understeer sometimes, but no issues with traction or putting the power down. The chassis can handle a lot more power than it is given stock. It is definitely a car for B-Roads and Tracks. What you give up is a bit of rear space/boot space and the whilst not bad, the interior isn't a match on the quality of the BMW. But i prefer the recaros over the BMW seats 11 days out of 10.
The VXR ZX mentions is actually a really good compromise between the two. I think as he stated the early cars had issues but the later ones i've not seen that many with issues. Unless they've been driven like absolute d*cks. The interior isn't brilliant, fit/finish but it was a step up for Vauxhall and it is certainly nicer to be in than the Renault. The Seats are lovely and you get some nice kit as standard over the Megane - not up to the spec of the BMW but as i said its a bit of a compromise. The suspension set up on the VXR is the same as in the Megane - not sure if it was "borrowed" or shared but regardless, its a great steer. Its a very good hot hatch and as such given its a vauxhall with a vxr badge alot of people will malign it despite not having experienced it. Don't listen. Drive one. You'll be surprised. 98% as sharp easier around town and has about 90% of the gadgets of the BMW. See past the badge and you have yourself a bit of bargain as prices are lower i've found.
The focus again is a compromise. MPG is not great for the performance. But its a lovely car to be in. The noise is nice, though i miss the older 2.5 5cylinder. The gearbox is good. It has plenty of room and the parts are cheap and its a reliable easy car to maintain yourself or there are plenty of specialists for Fords. You get plenty of kit. It is not as sharp as the Megane or the VXR but its not far behind. Here they are quite rare these days. Most are family man hot hatches, so its the car to go with if you have kids. But whenever i see a nice one that is well cared for i have a soft spot for it. Torque steer is a slight issue, but that can be fixed quite easily with some bushing. And the one thing that put me off, is here, most car thefts are Fords or VAG so maybe worth checking on your area too.
Hope that helps.
stevekoz said:
All cars i've looked at and / or owned.
The M135i is a smaller "GT" car. The engine is the focal point as is to be expected. The kit inside is your standard BMW fair. Nice place to sit. The i-drive is fine, but can be troublesome with Android phones (you can google it - BMW and Google had a bit of a ding dong). Anyway. That aside. For me depends on the gearbox. The ZF is a good and quick gearbox. The manual, well it has more driver involvement but for me the ZF makes it a much easier daily driver and its also that bit quicker than the manual. I didn't miss the involvement of the manual all that much as the paddles and the shifts were that fast that it still made downshifts and upshifts easy when pushing on.
That is the problem with the M135/M140i for my - when pushing on, its good. Linear but in standard form it doesn't give you much warning before it legs go. Like the older 1series before it. The key to making it handle well and make it progressive and a much sharper drive are about upgrading the bracing, the suspension, arms etc. You can substitute some M3/M4 Lower Control Arms. Birds Suspension uses Bilsteins with specific dampening to the UK roads and a quaife diff. These are all mods i did to my previous 130i (different generation but the handling is similar) and it will transform it into more of the "hot hatch" you'd expect out the box. For me the biggest issue is the image of the M135i. They are just used by yobs and hooligans and as soon as you buy one, you are kind of lumped in with that image and i don't like that. - granted hot hatches have an "image" but the M135i is at the top of that set of cars for me alongside the Golf R, A45amg etc. etc. If you are ok with the image and you want a nice balance of modern tech, good engine, decent mpg, the M135i is difficult to look past but for your budget you are more towards the bottom end of the market and the earlier more leggy cars.
If you want your hot hatch to be a proper sharp drive. Its the megane. For the money i don't think you can find a better handling car without spending quite a bit extra. As ZX said, finding one with the Recaro's and the Cup Chassis is the best bet. But they are all a good sharp drive. The suspension is harder around town but as long as you can live with that compromise. Once you start pushing on it makes total sense. On track as well as the road, the car is sharp, responsive. A hint of understeer sometimes, but no issues with traction or putting the power down. The chassis can handle a lot more power than it is given stock. It is definitely a car for B-Roads and Tracks. What you give up is a bit of rear space/boot space and the whilst not bad, the interior isn't a match on the quality of the BMW. But i prefer the recaros over the BMW seats 11 days out of 10.
The VXR ZX mentions is actually a really good compromise between the two. I think as he stated the early cars had issues but the later ones i've not seen that many with issues. Unless they've been driven like absolute d*cks. The interior isn't brilliant, fit/finish but it was a step up for Vauxhall and it is certainly nicer to be in than the Renault. The Seats are lovely and you get some nice kit as standard over the Megane - not up to the spec of the BMW but as i said its a bit of a compromise. The suspension set up on the VXR is the same as in the Megane - not sure if it was "borrowed" or shared but regardless, its a great steer. Its a very good hot hatch and as such given its a vauxhall with a vxr badge alot of people will malign it despite not having experienced it. Don't listen. Drive one. You'll be surprised. 98% as sharp easier around town and has about 90% of the gadgets of the BMW. See past the badge and you have yourself a bit of bargain as prices are lower i've found.
The focus again is a compromise. MPG is not great for the performance. But its a lovely car to be in. The noise is nice, though i miss the older 2.5 5cylinder. The gearbox is good. It has plenty of room and the parts are cheap and its a reliable easy car to maintain yourself or there are plenty of specialists for Fords. You get plenty of kit. It is not as sharp as the Megane or the VXR but its not far behind. Here they are quite rare these days. Most are family man hot hatches, so its the car to go with if you have kids. But whenever i see a nice one that is well cared for i have a soft spot for it. Torque steer is a slight issue, but that can be fixed quite easily with some bushing. And the one thing that put me off, is here, most car thefts are Fords or VAG so maybe worth checking on your area too.
Hope that helps.
Amazing write up, thank you for taking the time to put that in words. Sounds like either one of the 4 cars has its own merits therefore probably wont go wrong with any of them. The M135i is a smaller "GT" car. The engine is the focal point as is to be expected. The kit inside is your standard BMW fair. Nice place to sit. The i-drive is fine, but can be troublesome with Android phones (you can google it - BMW and Google had a bit of a ding dong). Anyway. That aside. For me depends on the gearbox. The ZF is a good and quick gearbox. The manual, well it has more driver involvement but for me the ZF makes it a much easier daily driver and its also that bit quicker than the manual. I didn't miss the involvement of the manual all that much as the paddles and the shifts were that fast that it still made downshifts and upshifts easy when pushing on.
That is the problem with the M135/M140i for my - when pushing on, its good. Linear but in standard form it doesn't give you much warning before it legs go. Like the older 1series before it. The key to making it handle well and make it progressive and a much sharper drive are about upgrading the bracing, the suspension, arms etc. You can substitute some M3/M4 Lower Control Arms. Birds Suspension uses Bilsteins with specific dampening to the UK roads and a quaife diff. These are all mods i did to my previous 130i (different generation but the handling is similar) and it will transform it into more of the "hot hatch" you'd expect out the box. For me the biggest issue is the image of the M135i. They are just used by yobs and hooligans and as soon as you buy one, you are kind of lumped in with that image and i don't like that. - granted hot hatches have an "image" but the M135i is at the top of that set of cars for me alongside the Golf R, A45amg etc. etc. If you are ok with the image and you want a nice balance of modern tech, good engine, decent mpg, the M135i is difficult to look past but for your budget you are more towards the bottom end of the market and the earlier more leggy cars.
If you want your hot hatch to be a proper sharp drive. Its the megane. For the money i don't think you can find a better handling car without spending quite a bit extra. As ZX said, finding one with the Recaro's and the Cup Chassis is the best bet. But they are all a good sharp drive. The suspension is harder around town but as long as you can live with that compromise. Once you start pushing on it makes total sense. On track as well as the road, the car is sharp, responsive. A hint of understeer sometimes, but no issues with traction or putting the power down. The chassis can handle a lot more power than it is given stock. It is definitely a car for B-Roads and Tracks. What you give up is a bit of rear space/boot space and the whilst not bad, the interior isn't a match on the quality of the BMW. But i prefer the recaros over the BMW seats 11 days out of 10.
The VXR ZX mentions is actually a really good compromise between the two. I think as he stated the early cars had issues but the later ones i've not seen that many with issues. Unless they've been driven like absolute d*cks. The interior isn't brilliant, fit/finish but it was a step up for Vauxhall and it is certainly nicer to be in than the Renault. The Seats are lovely and you get some nice kit as standard over the Megane - not up to the spec of the BMW but as i said its a bit of a compromise. The suspension set up on the VXR is the same as in the Megane - not sure if it was "borrowed" or shared but regardless, its a great steer. Its a very good hot hatch and as such given its a vauxhall with a vxr badge alot of people will malign it despite not having experienced it. Don't listen. Drive one. You'll be surprised. 98% as sharp easier around town and has about 90% of the gadgets of the BMW. See past the badge and you have yourself a bit of bargain as prices are lower i've found.
The focus again is a compromise. MPG is not great for the performance. But its a lovely car to be in. The noise is nice, though i miss the older 2.5 5cylinder. The gearbox is good. It has plenty of room and the parts are cheap and its a reliable easy car to maintain yourself or there are plenty of specialists for Fords. You get plenty of kit. It is not as sharp as the Megane or the VXR but its not far behind. Here they are quite rare these days. Most are family man hot hatches, so its the car to go with if you have kids. But whenever i see a nice one that is well cared for i have a soft spot for it. Torque steer is a slight issue, but that can be fixed quite easily with some bushing. And the one thing that put me off, is here, most car thefts are Fords or VAG so maybe worth checking on your area too.
Hope that helps.
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