Tenancy Agreement Query
Discussion
Hello All. Wonder if anyone can help on a tenancy query.
My daughter is lead tenant (of 3) on a 12m tenancy starting August 15th. The landlord needs to do some minor maintenance and repaint prior to them moving in. But his contractor can't do this until August 17th.
However, daughter is currently in temporary AirBnB and has to move out by August 20th as that accommodation is fully booked from 21st August. The other 2 tenants don't have this problem.
I've never been involved in this type of thing before but would it be reasonable to suggest/do any or all of the following:
. Amend tenancy agreement to August 19th latest on the basis that there is no point in handing keys over on original move-in date of 15th as no-one can move their stuff in until the work is completed. Is the letting agent likely to say that the key handover should still take place on the original date regardless of the redecoration issue?
. Add on the delayed days to the end of the contract.
. If we insist that the above dates cannot be moved without severe cost and hassle, can the landlord legally renege on the contract if they feel this is too awkward for them to agree?
. Bearing in mind that we can let the start date slip by a couple of days max, would it be viewed as reasonable if we were to ask the landlord to pay the costs of finding alternative accommodation if the start date went beyond the 2 day extension?
Many thanks.
My daughter is lead tenant (of 3) on a 12m tenancy starting August 15th. The landlord needs to do some minor maintenance and repaint prior to them moving in. But his contractor can't do this until August 17th.
However, daughter is currently in temporary AirBnB and has to move out by August 20th as that accommodation is fully booked from 21st August. The other 2 tenants don't have this problem.
I've never been involved in this type of thing before but would it be reasonable to suggest/do any or all of the following:
. Amend tenancy agreement to August 19th latest on the basis that there is no point in handing keys over on original move-in date of 15th as no-one can move their stuff in until the work is completed. Is the letting agent likely to say that the key handover should still take place on the original date regardless of the redecoration issue?
. Add on the delayed days to the end of the contract.
. If we insist that the above dates cannot be moved without severe cost and hassle, can the landlord legally renege on the contract if they feel this is too awkward for them to agree?
. Bearing in mind that we can let the start date slip by a couple of days max, would it be viewed as reasonable if we were to ask the landlord to pay the costs of finding alternative accommodation if the start date went beyond the 2 day extension?
Many thanks.
As a landlord (of all of one BTL) I wouldnt have agreed a tenancy to start before works were completed, but if a date has been agreed is the landlord agreeable to them moving in at that time?
If not then they (the landlord) needs to agree a change, they can't take the money and not let them move in.
If they agreed a date then legally they're in breach of contract, but how hard do you want to push?
If not then they (the landlord) needs to agree a change, they can't take the money and not let them move in.
If they agreed a date then legally they're in breach of contract, but how hard do you want to push?
BertBert said:
I'm just wondering if this is a proper problem in life or just lost in the rounding errors as it were?
Yup, if i were the landlord I'd be looking for other tenants. No wonder landlords are selling up in droves. Even moreso with forthcoming changes.
Just out of interest is the house in a dead end hole or somewhere where your kid may be lucky to find something else at about a weeks notice ?
speedyguy said:
Just out of interest is the house in a dead end hole or somewhere where your kid may be lucky to find something else at about a weeks notice ?
It sounds like it may well be a typical Uni area let which could well be difficult to find a replacement for at this late stage.The other two flatmates might be a bit miffed if it causes them to have issues, too.
"Just out of interest is the house in a dead end hole or somewhere where your kid may be lucky to find something else at about a weeks notice ?"
Property is in Richmond (TW10 not the one in Yorkshire) - not a student let.
Problem is if this goes beyond a 2 day delay we can't easily move her stuff out without hiring a man with van service (twice), and using a storage facility. I would imagine a storage facility will want at least a month's rent, and man with van probably £150-ish each time. (I haven't checked exact costs yet). Then there is the cost of accommodation for a few days.
All in all I would imagine a potential cost of c£500.
Property is in Richmond (TW10 not the one in Yorkshire) - not a student let.
Problem is if this goes beyond a 2 day delay we can't easily move her stuff out without hiring a man with van service (twice), and using a storage facility. I would imagine a storage facility will want at least a month's rent, and man with van probably £150-ish each time. (I haven't checked exact costs yet). Then there is the cost of accommodation for a few days.
All in all I would imagine a potential cost of c£500.
starbucks said:
"Just out of interest is the house in a dead end hole or somewhere where your kid may be lucky to find something else at about a weeks notice ?"
Property is in Richmond (TW10 not the one in Yorkshire) - not a student let.
Problem is if this goes beyond a 2 day delay we can't easily move her stuff out without hiring a man with van service (twice), and using a storage facility. I would imagine a storage facility will want at least a month's rent, and man with van probably £150-ish each time. (I haven't checked exact costs yet). Then there is the cost of accommodation for a few days.
All in all I would imagine a potential cost of c£500.
The landlord would probably be happy with her leaving her stuff in the new place even if she doesn't move in for a day or two.Property is in Richmond (TW10 not the one in Yorkshire) - not a student let.
Problem is if this goes beyond a 2 day delay we can't easily move her stuff out without hiring a man with van service (twice), and using a storage facility. I would imagine a storage facility will want at least a month's rent, and man with van probably £150-ish each time. (I haven't checked exact costs yet). Then there is the cost of accommodation for a few days.
All in all I would imagine a potential cost of c£500.
speedyguy said:
Yup, if i were the landlord I'd be looking for other tenants.
No wonder landlords are selling up in droves. Even moreso with forthcoming changes.
Have I missed something here?No wonder landlords are selling up in droves. Even moreso with forthcoming changes.
A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Yellow Lizud said:
Have I missed something here?
A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Yeah, you have missed something. The landlord doesn't want to change anything. The potential tenant does. The landlord has decorators in the property for the first few day of the tenancy. A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Personally I don't see an issue. Other than the tenant wanting to move the goalposts.
Tyre Smoke said:
Yellow Lizud said:
Have I missed something here?
A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Yeah, you have missed something. The landlord doesn't want to change anything. The potential tenant does. The landlord has decorators in the property for the first few day of the tenancy. A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Personally I don't see an issue. Other than the tenant wanting to move the goalposts.
starbucks said:
My daughter is lead tenant (of 3) on a 12m tenancy starting August 15th. The landlord needs to do some minor maintenance and repaint prior to them moving in. But his contractor can't do this until August 17th.
Landlord has signed a tenancy agreement to start before his contractor can. The contractor will assume clear access & won't want to run the risk of being accused of damaging or stealing tenants property and the tenant has a right to quite enjoyment. Not sure why this problem, that the landlord has created, means the landlord should terminate the tenancy and run the risk of voids and being sued for breach of contract? Still, landlords do get the tenants they deserve. @OP
starbucks said:
I've never been involved in this type of thing before but would it be reasonable to suggest/do any or all of the following:
. Amend tenancy agreement to August 19th latest on the basis that there is no point in handing keys over on original move-in date of 15th as no-one can move their stuff in until the work is completed. Is the letting agent likely to say that the key handover should still take place on the original date regardless of the redecoration issue?
I would say so. Landlord might not want the void period but that’s not your problem. Amend tenancy agreement to August 19th latest on the basis that there is no point in handing keys over on original move-in date of 15th as no-one can move their stuff in until the work is completed. Is the letting agent likely to say that the key handover should still take place on the original date regardless of the redecoration issue?
starbucks said:
. Add on the delayed days to the end of the contract.
The tenancy period should start from the access datestarbucks said:
. If we insist that the above dates cannot be moved without severe cost and hassle, can the landlord legally renege on the contract if they feel this is too awkward for them to agree?
They could, but they need to find a new set of tenants, reference them all, create new a new tenancy etc etc. Why would they, except to be spiteful?starbucks said:
. Bearing in mind that we can let the start date slip by a couple of days max, would it be viewed as reasonable if we were to ask the landlord to pay the costs of finding alternative accommodation if the start date went beyond the 2 day extension?
Only if you have a signed tenancy agreement they can’t fulfil. In the landlords shoes I would offer some discount on 1st month’s rent and let the Tenant in on 17th. Edited by Collectingbrass on Wednesday 10th August 09:54
Collectingbrass said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Yellow Lizud said:
Have I missed something here?
A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Yeah, you have missed something. The landlord doesn't want to change anything. The potential tenant does. The landlord has decorators in the property for the first few day of the tenancy. A contract has been signed to move in on a certain date. The landlord now wants to change that date at considerable cost and hassle to the tenant.
And you think the landlord should be looking for other tenants????
Personally I don't see an issue. Other than the tenant wanting to move the goalposts.
starbucks said:
My daughter is lead tenant (of 3) on a 12m tenancy starting August 15th. The landlord needs to do some minor maintenance and repaint prior to them moving in. But his contractor can't do this until August 17th.
Landlord has signed a tenancy agreement to start before his contractor can. The contractor will assume clear access & won't want to run the risk of being accused of damaging or stealing tenants property and the tenant has a right to quite enjoyment. Not sure why this problem, that the landlord has created, means the landlord should terminate the tenancy and run the risk of voids and being sued for breach of contract? Still, landlords do get the tenants they deserve. Tyre Smoke said:
Yeah, you have missed something. The landlord doesn't want to change anything. The potential tenant does. The landlord has decorators in the property for the first few day of the tenancy.
Personally I don't see an issue. Other than the tenant wanting to move the goalposts.
That is not what the OP said.Personally I don't see an issue. Other than the tenant wanting to move the goalposts.
The LL wants decorators in prior to tenants moving in. Hence the LL has moved the goalposts by changing the move-in date.
Tyre Smoke said:
Apologies. However, it is only the tenant's father that says the LL needs to do this prior to moving in. Not the LL. Which I'm using as reason for my misunderstanding
Actually that is a very good point, maybe I am missing something.So OP - Has the LL said your D cannot move in until the decorating has been completed?
- Or have you said you don't want your D to move in until the decorating has been completed?
In other words, who has actually changed the date?
I've done a bit more digging but currently waiting to hear back from agent on what's happening when. Some of the timelines just don't add up.
Key handover and move in Monday 15th.
Professional clean booked for 15th.
Contractor delayed till 17th.
Work to be done is repaint of property (3 bedrooms), new carpets to all bedrooms, repair of stairs to upper floor and professional clean. Can these be done within 2 days? I would've thought not, but I'm not a DIY expert.
Why the clean has been booked before the contractor has started I've no idea. It'll be full of dust by the end of the first day.
Worst case scenario would be moving in on 15th and living through all the dust, paint smell, furniture/tools everywhere etc. It also makes it more difficult for the contractor, who I'm sure would rather the place be empty.
Disaster would be if contractor gets delayed further.
I think the landlord will want everyone to move in on the original start date, suck it up and accept the hassle and conditions.
My preference would be for the work to be completed prior to moving in, but no later than the Friday, otherwise the costs and hassle increase rapidly.
Thanks for the responses thusfar - some interesting points.
Key handover and move in Monday 15th.
Professional clean booked for 15th.
Contractor delayed till 17th.
Work to be done is repaint of property (3 bedrooms), new carpets to all bedrooms, repair of stairs to upper floor and professional clean. Can these be done within 2 days? I would've thought not, but I'm not a DIY expert.
Why the clean has been booked before the contractor has started I've no idea. It'll be full of dust by the end of the first day.
Worst case scenario would be moving in on 15th and living through all the dust, paint smell, furniture/tools everywhere etc. It also makes it more difficult for the contractor, who I'm sure would rather the place be empty.
Disaster would be if contractor gets delayed further.
I think the landlord will want everyone to move in on the original start date, suck it up and accept the hassle and conditions.
My preference would be for the work to be completed prior to moving in, but no later than the Friday, otherwise the costs and hassle increase rapidly.
Thanks for the responses thusfar - some interesting points.
The Landlord probably wants the pro-clean at the start of the tenancy so they can evidence by invoice that it was clean at the start. Side note – your daughter & the others should do the same at the end of the tenancy to maximise their chance of deposit.
I’d be surprised if they could get through all that work in less than 4 days, so I wouldn’t be accepting the tenancy start on the 15th with all that to be done, unless it is extended by a similar period or a discount on month 1 rent.
I’d be surprised if they could get through all that work in less than 4 days, so I wouldn’t be accepting the tenancy start on the 15th with all that to be done, unless it is extended by a similar period or a discount on month 1 rent.
This still doesn't make sense. Plenty of people, me included, remain resident in their houses whilst significant redecoration work is going on. We don't move out because we have nowhere else to go. It's not ideal, but a bit of work going on does not prevent the tenants moving in per se; it's hardly as if the place hasn't got a roof. The place is probably in a 'liveable' condition without the works being done, although not as nice, so it would perhaps be contrary to suggest the house cannot be occupied as of the agreed start date of the tenancy.
Can't the tenants just sleep on air beds downstairs whilst the upper floor is being done? It's what most people do. And, more to the point, what of the other tenants? It may be the case that they are living with parents or whatever in arrangements that do not impose definite departure dates, but what if they are happy with the proposed moving in date of 15th August and want keys as of that day?
The average landlord employed mob probably will be able to get it done in a couple of days; most work consists of slapping a bit of eggshell on the walls and bunging in some cheap carpet. The 'deep clean' will be anything but; a couple of cleaners might deign to put any loose rubbish in bin-bags and vacuum the floors, but the tenants will have to clean properly themselves to get it anywhere near standard.
Can't the tenants just sleep on air beds downstairs whilst the upper floor is being done? It's what most people do. And, more to the point, what of the other tenants? It may be the case that they are living with parents or whatever in arrangements that do not impose definite departure dates, but what if they are happy with the proposed moving in date of 15th August and want keys as of that day?
The average landlord employed mob probably will be able to get it done in a couple of days; most work consists of slapping a bit of eggshell on the walls and bunging in some cheap carpet. The 'deep clean' will be anything but; a couple of cleaners might deign to put any loose rubbish in bin-bags and vacuum the floors, but the tenants will have to clean properly themselves to get it anywhere near standard.
Once a tenancy agreement is signed, then there is very limited circumstances under consumer protection regulations, which would allow either a landlord, and/or tenant/s to "unwind" (commence date) a tenancy agreement. The circumstance might include if either party to the agreement had provided misleading information.
Since this landlord has had considerable difficulties in both finding and engaging contractors to carry out works, all trades plumbing, construction, decorating etc., I have some sympathy with the OP's daughter's landlord. Although, as the OP mentioned, I also find it odd that the landlord is engaging a cleaner prior to the decorating works commence.
The OP's daughter needs to the commence her tenancy in the same spirit she intends to continue the tenancy, and therefore i would advise the OP's daughter trying to come to some arrangement with the landlord, on possibly storage of her effects, and/or overnight sleeping accommodation.
The OP's daughter needs to clearly point out to the landlord, both the inconvenience and the extra costs she will suffer, the latter of which she can ill afford.
Since this landlord has had considerable difficulties in both finding and engaging contractors to carry out works, all trades plumbing, construction, decorating etc., I have some sympathy with the OP's daughter's landlord. Although, as the OP mentioned, I also find it odd that the landlord is engaging a cleaner prior to the decorating works commence.
The OP's daughter needs to the commence her tenancy in the same spirit she intends to continue the tenancy, and therefore i would advise the OP's daughter trying to come to some arrangement with the landlord, on possibly storage of her effects, and/or overnight sleeping accommodation.
The OP's daughter needs to clearly point out to the landlord, both the inconvenience and the extra costs she will suffer, the latter of which she can ill afford.
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