Used car dealer sold really dodgy car
Discussion
Hi folks,
My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
March 2022, airbag light came on, took it local garage to have a look, reset it, was fine for 20 days, then came back on, reset it, came back on 10 days later, that continued till it pretty much came back on shortly after reset.
Long story short, took it several garages, said it had accident damage.
Dealer insisting no damage.
Audi looked at it sent videos showing front air bag wiring loom was broken, wiring that had been cable tied to hold in place - should be in a foam insert inside the bumper, sensors just cable tied not connected to anything, black circle sensor with cover missing as compared to drivers side.
Headlight date stamp from 2016 - from a car 3 years older. Showed the wing inside the engine bay had the original black paint and had just been painted over. More panel damage visible inside engine bay. Window pillar had also been painted. Washer bottle had date stamp of 2020.
My concerns:
i) Car appears to have suffered significant damage, it is a nearly new car, was there a deliberate attempt to keep this "off the books" so as not to be categorised - which would would have knocked thousands of pounds of the value of the car. Also, people like my sister would never touch a cat car.
ii) The "repair" appears to be dangerous - because it has not been categorised - we have no idea what the actual category would be for this car
- is the car structurally compromised?
- given sensors, components, wires have been cable tied, not connected, damaged components - we have no idea if any of the safety features are working - thus putting lives at risk - shows the person carrying out the repair couldn't care less and knew they would be putting lives at risk!
iii) This maybe the tip of the ice berg - as the Audi technician job was to find out the cause of the air bag light issue - has not done a full investigation.
iv) i've looked at the MOT history, in Nov 21, this car had a MOT major failure with “Supplementary restraint system warning lamp indicates a fault (7.1.6 (a))”. The very next day, with 1 mile added to the odometer, the MOT passed. Dealer had just reset the air bag light.
I believe the dealer was well aware of the air bag light issue and given how the other garages were easily able to determine the car had been involved in previous accidents. The dealer surely would have done some basic checks on the car and would've known the car had accident damage.
It has been bought half on finance, original cost £18k.
I've advised my sister to reject the car and claim full costs back.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
March 2022, airbag light came on, took it local garage to have a look, reset it, was fine for 20 days, then came back on, reset it, came back on 10 days later, that continued till it pretty much came back on shortly after reset.
Long story short, took it several garages, said it had accident damage.
Dealer insisting no damage.
Audi looked at it sent videos showing front air bag wiring loom was broken, wiring that had been cable tied to hold in place - should be in a foam insert inside the bumper, sensors just cable tied not connected to anything, black circle sensor with cover missing as compared to drivers side.
Headlight date stamp from 2016 - from a car 3 years older. Showed the wing inside the engine bay had the original black paint and had just been painted over. More panel damage visible inside engine bay. Window pillar had also been painted. Washer bottle had date stamp of 2020.
My concerns:
i) Car appears to have suffered significant damage, it is a nearly new car, was there a deliberate attempt to keep this "off the books" so as not to be categorised - which would would have knocked thousands of pounds of the value of the car. Also, people like my sister would never touch a cat car.
ii) The "repair" appears to be dangerous - because it has not been categorised - we have no idea what the actual category would be for this car
- is the car structurally compromised?
- given sensors, components, wires have been cable tied, not connected, damaged components - we have no idea if any of the safety features are working - thus putting lives at risk - shows the person carrying out the repair couldn't care less and knew they would be putting lives at risk!
iii) This maybe the tip of the ice berg - as the Audi technician job was to find out the cause of the air bag light issue - has not done a full investigation.
iv) i've looked at the MOT history, in Nov 21, this car had a MOT major failure with “Supplementary restraint system warning lamp indicates a fault (7.1.6 (a))”. The very next day, with 1 mile added to the odometer, the MOT passed. Dealer had just reset the air bag light.
I believe the dealer was well aware of the air bag light issue and given how the other garages were easily able to determine the car had been involved in previous accidents. The dealer surely would have done some basic checks on the car and would've known the car had accident damage.
It has been bought half on finance, original cost £18k.
I've advised my sister to reject the car and claim full costs back.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
swiftguy said:
Hi folks,
My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
March 2022, airbag light came on, took it local garage to have a look, reset it, was fine for 20 days, then came back on, reset it, came back on 10 days later, that continued till it pretty much came back on shortly after reset.
Long story short, took it several garages, said it had accident damage.
Dealer insisting no damage.
Audi looked at it sent videos showing front air bag wiring loom was broken, wiring that had been cable tied to hold in place - should be in a foam insert inside the bumper, sensors just cable tied not connected to anything, black circle sensor with cover missing as compared to drivers side.
Headlight date stamp from 2016 - from a car 3 years older. Showed the wing inside the engine bay had the original black paint and had just been painted over. More panel damage visible inside engine bay. Window pillar had also been painted. Washer bottle had date stamp of 2020.
My concerns:
i) Car appears to have suffered significant damage, it is a nearly new car, was there a deliberate attempt to keep this "off the books" so as not to be categorised - which would would have knocked thousands of pounds of the value of the car. Also, people like my sister would never touch a cat car.
ii) The "repair" appears to be dangerous - because it has not been categorised - we have no idea what the actual category would be for this car
- is the car structurally compromised?
- given sensors, components, wires have been cable tied, not connected, damaged components - we have no idea if any of the safety features are working - thus putting lives at risk - shows the person carrying out the repair couldn't care less and knew they would be putting lives at risk!
iii) This maybe the tip of the ice berg - as the Audi technician job was to find out the cause of the air bag light issue - has not done a full investigation.
iv) i've looked at the MOT history, in Nov 21, this car had a MOT major failure with “Supplementary restraint system warning lamp indicates a fault (7.1.6 (a))”. The very next day, with 1 mile added to the odometer, the MOT passed. Dealer had just reset the air bag light.
I believe the dealer was well aware of the air bag light issue and given how the other garages were easily able to determine the car had been involved in previous accidents. The dealer surely would have done some basic checks on the car and would've known the car had accident damage.
It has been bought half on finance, original cost £18k.
I've advised my sister to reject the car and claim full costs back.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Sounds like the car has had a bump that wasn’t serious enough to be recorded by insurance company.My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
March 2022, airbag light came on, took it local garage to have a look, reset it, was fine for 20 days, then came back on, reset it, came back on 10 days later, that continued till it pretty much came back on shortly after reset.
Long story short, took it several garages, said it had accident damage.
Dealer insisting no damage.
Audi looked at it sent videos showing front air bag wiring loom was broken, wiring that had been cable tied to hold in place - should be in a foam insert inside the bumper, sensors just cable tied not connected to anything, black circle sensor with cover missing as compared to drivers side.
Headlight date stamp from 2016 - from a car 3 years older. Showed the wing inside the engine bay had the original black paint and had just been painted over. More panel damage visible inside engine bay. Window pillar had also been painted. Washer bottle had date stamp of 2020.
My concerns:
i) Car appears to have suffered significant damage, it is a nearly new car, was there a deliberate attempt to keep this "off the books" so as not to be categorised - which would would have knocked thousands of pounds of the value of the car. Also, people like my sister would never touch a cat car.
ii) The "repair" appears to be dangerous - because it has not been categorised - we have no idea what the actual category would be for this car
- is the car structurally compromised?
- given sensors, components, wires have been cable tied, not connected, damaged components - we have no idea if any of the safety features are working - thus putting lives at risk - shows the person carrying out the repair couldn't care less and knew they would be putting lives at risk!
iii) This maybe the tip of the ice berg - as the Audi technician job was to find out the cause of the air bag light issue - has not done a full investigation.
iv) i've looked at the MOT history, in Nov 21, this car had a MOT major failure with “Supplementary restraint system warning lamp indicates a fault (7.1.6 (a))”. The very next day, with 1 mile added to the odometer, the MOT passed. Dealer had just reset the air bag light.
I believe the dealer was well aware of the air bag light issue and given how the other garages were easily able to determine the car had been involved in previous accidents. The dealer surely would have done some basic checks on the car and would've known the car had accident damage.
It has been bought half on finance, original cost £18k.
I've advised my sister to reject the car and claim full costs back.
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Dealer advised correctly that the car was HPI clear.
Repair seems not great…..ultimately how would the dealer know this without digging into every inch of the car.
Of course they will have just reset the airbag to get it through an MOT. they probably assumed dodgy sensor or something.
I assume you’re rejecting on grounds of not fit for purpose? Or mis-described?
It’s been fit for purpose for the last 18 months…..can’t see how they’ve mis-described it either, unless they specifically said it had never had a bump in its life (which I doubt)
Absolutely no chance of rejection after 18 months.
OP, you are (understandably) jumping to a lot of conclusions there. As far as I can make out, there is a problem with the airbag wiring that can be fixed. The car has also had an accident that has needed repair which has been done. There is nothing to suggest it's a 'Cat' car at all.
OP, you are (understandably) jumping to a lot of conclusions there. As far as I can make out, there is a problem with the airbag wiring that can be fixed. The car has also had an accident that has needed repair which has been done. There is nothing to suggest it's a 'Cat' car at all.
Tyre Smoke said:
Absolutely no chance of rejection after 18 months.
Bit of pedantry but 9 monthsOP, it is worth getting doing a v-check if you haven’t already - vcheck.uk
The car may have been marketed via a salvage auction, if so the pictures with damage will probably be available via the check. There are often unrecorded damaged cars going through these auctions, often stolen recovered.
As for rejecting it, it will be unlikely to be easy but having finance on the car is a good thing as the finance company are involved in a tri-partite agreement with your sister and the dealer so will have to make a call on it.
Nickp82 said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Absolutely no chance of rejection after 18 months.
Bit of pedantry but 9 monthsOP, it is worth getting doing a v-check if you haven’t already - vcheck.uk
The car may have been marketed via a salvage auction, if so the pictures with damage will probably be available via the check. There are often unrecorded damaged cars going through these auctions, often stolen recovered.
As for rejecting it, it will be unlikely to be easy but having finance on the car is a good thing as the finance company are involved in a tri-partite agreement with your sister and the dealer so will have to make a call on it.
Not sure where you guys are getting 18 months - car was bought Dec 2021 - In March 2022 - 3 months after the car was bought the air bag light came on.
So you guys think it's ok for the safety sensors and wirings not to be connected and just left there held by cable ties.
No way of knowing if these sensors are working and in the event of, god forbid, a crash - not knowing if they will work to save lives!
The black paint of the side wing was visible in the engine bay.
Most of the garages were able to spot signs of accident damage, pointing to replaced side wing and window pillar also being painted.
We simply do not know the full extent of the damage.
So you guys think it's ok for the safety sensors and wirings not to be connected and just left there held by cable ties.
No way of knowing if these sensors are working and in the event of, god forbid, a crash - not knowing if they will work to save lives!
The black paint of the side wing was visible in the engine bay.
Most of the garages were able to spot signs of accident damage, pointing to replaced side wing and window pillar also being painted.
We simply do not know the full extent of the damage.
The reality is though that a pretty significant number of cars on the road have had a bump or 2 in their life - lots won’t have been handled through the insurance and simply been repaired to get them back on the road.
Not using the insurance does not make it less safe or more of a risk.
Suck it up, sort what needs to be sorted to give you piece of mind (if anything) and move on
Not using the insurance does not make it less safe or more of a risk.
Suck it up, sort what needs to be sorted to give you piece of mind (if anything) and move on
codenamecueball said:
Cars can have accidents and unless written off, will not end up being categorised. If it's considered economical to repair, it'll be repaired without a mark on the logbook.
Far more common than the general public seem to realise. I've seen cars have repairs pre-PDI due to transit damage coming from the factory! If it's deemed repairable, isn't categorised and has come through a used approved channel then I can't see how you'd have any come back just on the basis of 'it's had a prang at some point in it's life'swiftguy said:
Hi folks,
My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
Do you have a record of this in writing?My sister bought an Audi A3 in Dec 2021, 19 plate. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
IANAL, but if you do and any reasonably competent garage could see accident damage, then I would think you have a good case on breach of contract. I don't think that'll allow you to reject it though.
swiftguy said:
My sister bought an Audi A3. Specifically asked whether had been involved in any accidents or has any defects.
Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
The question is, does the buyer have it in writing from the dealer that the car has never been involved in an accident? Or that it has no defects? (Alternatively, did an independent witness hear the salesman make these claims?).Dealer reassured my sister that there was none and showed HPI showing none.
If you can prove that the dealer stated the car had never been in an accident, then you should be able to return for a partial refund or claim compensation, it as it's been misdescribed.
However, if it was a purely spoken 'reassurance' then it's the buyer's word against the seller, v hard to prove what was actually said nine months ago.
HPI is irrelevant. HPI records situations where a car is insured, crashed, claimed, and the insurer decides it's not worth their while repairing it. It seems all parties agree that this wasn't the case with this car, so nothing is in dispute.
There is nothing 'shady' about a car being damaged but the cost of repair being less than the car's value, so it being repaired and not written off.
I can't believe the level of downplaying, this isn't just a scratch or a dent! A whole wing has been replaced, damage enough to the window pillar to be painted.
So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
Edited by swiftguy on Sunday 14th August 16:34
As above, get a vcheck/car vertical check done. There’s a FB group called something like Dodgy Cars that keeps popping up on my feed, recently there was an approved used F Type Jag for sale at a main dealers with front end accident damage that somehow bypassed their QC!
PS found the image as I sent it to a mate who just bought a Jag XK from a main dealer!
PS found the image as I sent it to a mate who just bought a Jag XK from a main dealer!
codenamecueball said:
Cars can have accidents and unless written off, will not end up being categorised. If it's considered economical to repair, it'll be repaired without a mark on the logbook.
Plenty of unrecorded major damaged cars up for sale. Bought repaired on the cheap then flipped for sale. swiftguy said:
I can't believe the level of downplaying, this isn't just a scratch or a dent! A whole wing has been replaced, damage enough to the window pillar to be painted.
So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
What utter nonsense, suspect most of you must be in the trade covering each other!
Theres no need to get upset just because not everyone is agreeing with you.So you think the car air-bag components wiring just left hanging, damaged, not connected - is all ok? The occupants lives at risk is all ok?
The odd occasion where my own car has had an accident, wing damage, it is always be recorded at the very least cat N (or was D).
How on earth can you say a car that has at the very least wing damage, the insurance would not record it.
This has not gone through insurance, scrap parts have been used.
What utter nonsense, suspect most of you must be in the trade covering each other!
The car probably was in an accident, but just because it was in an accident, doesnt mean it is categorised by an insurance company.
I'm not in the trade, and I'm not covering anyone.
CloudStuff said:
Waste of time posting this in GG.
It's mainly populated by "happy wife - happy life" ph pensioner saddos who are sat in their sheds, deflecting their bitterness onto the forum.
You've just fed their appetite for "let's pile on and blame the OP" 'fun'.
That would explain it - not sure which forum was the correct oneIt's mainly populated by "happy wife - happy life" ph pensioner saddos who are sat in their sheds, deflecting their bitterness onto the forum.
You've just fed their appetite for "let's pile on and blame the OP" 'fun'.
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