How many very fast car owners have never driven on track?
Discussion
I was reading about a chap who wrote off his Ferrari, as they were going "quite fast" and had to avoid a car pulling out of a side road, who wasn't expecting "quite fast" to be as fast.
So, it got me thinking that are there many owners of properly fast cars that have never done any driver training, track days or the like? I'm thinking of the 400 / 500 bhp and beyond club...
I really value the skills learnt from track days and later racing - the car control, appreciation of speed, and how quickly things can go wrong, and I'm fairly sure that without that I'd still be driving like a ham-fisted loon!
I'm sure there are those who haven't done any training but are they a minority?
So, it got me thinking that are there many owners of properly fast cars that have never done any driver training, track days or the like? I'm thinking of the 400 / 500 bhp and beyond club...
I really value the skills learnt from track days and later racing - the car control, appreciation of speed, and how quickly things can go wrong, and I'm fairly sure that without that I'd still be driving like a ham-fisted loon!
I'm sure there are those who haven't done any training but are they a minority?
I would expect quite a number...
however I am not sure that track skills are the main skills you need
they help you understand how the car performs at the limit of its handling
however, if you get to that point on the road there are usually so many other factors (not present on a track) such as other road users / lack of run off / pot holes / etc. that by then it is too late on a road...
what they really need to avoid those types of accidents is extra road driving skills - looking further ahead / understanding your car's performance in road conditions / anticipating what other road users might do / etc.
This has been a known need since the 1960s with the advent of e-types and astons etc. and the BSM in response setting up their high performance course...
however I am not sure that track skills are the main skills you need
they help you understand how the car performs at the limit of its handling
however, if you get to that point on the road there are usually so many other factors (not present on a track) such as other road users / lack of run off / pot holes / etc. that by then it is too late on a road...
what they really need to avoid those types of accidents is extra road driving skills - looking further ahead / understanding your car's performance in road conditions / anticipating what other road users might do / etc.
This has been a known need since the 1960s with the advent of e-types and astons etc. and the BSM in response setting up their high performance course...
I've had 3 cars over 400bhp, but I've never driven on a track though. However I've driven at 165 on the road so I'm certainly not afraid to go quickly, but it is definitely more safe/more wise to drive quickly on a track than it is on the road for sure.
I've been a passenger on a track and I absolutely loved it, so I can easily see why track days are so popular with performance car owners.
I've been a passenger on a track and I absolutely loved it, so I can easily see why track days are so popular with performance car owners.
akirk said:
I would expect quite a number...
however I am not sure that track skills are the main skills you need
they help you understand how the car performs at the limit of its handling
however, if you get to that point on the road there are usually so many other factors (not present on a track) such as other road users / lack of run off / pot holes / etc. that by then it is too late on a road...
what they really need to avoid those types of accidents is extra road driving skills - looking further ahead / understanding your car's performance in road conditions / anticipating what other road users might do / etc.
This has been a known need since the 1960s with the advent of e-types and astons etc. and the BSM in response setting up their high performance course...
It's this ^^however I am not sure that track skills are the main skills you need
they help you understand how the car performs at the limit of its handling
however, if you get to that point on the road there are usually so many other factors (not present on a track) such as other road users / lack of run off / pot holes / etc. that by then it is too late on a road...
what they really need to avoid those types of accidents is extra road driving skills - looking further ahead / understanding your car's performance in road conditions / anticipating what other road users might do / etc.
This has been a known need since the 1960s with the advent of e-types and astons etc. and the BSM in response setting up their high performance course...
I’ve had more than one car with over 400bhp (current one has 503bhp) and have lost count of the number of track days I’ve done, but I’m not seeing the relevance of having done so. The way I drive on track is completely different to my on-road style. One thing I would recommend for people is doing a skid course so you can see just how far an out-of-control car goes before coming to a stop, even at 25 mph.
Track days are good if you want to push a new to you car to the limit to find how it handles in a fairly safe environment. But it’s completely different to road driving, no oncoming traffic, clear long visibility, pretty much zero hazards really. And if you do mess up you’ll just skid to a halt rather than take out other cars/families/solid objects like trees.
I push my car on track way beyond what I would on the road, but also a decent road can’t be matched by any track imo.
I push my car on track way beyond what I would on the road, but also a decent road can’t be matched by any track imo.
I used to do track days when I had a 911 but as for taking my M5 on track, why?
So you could be a 'very fast car owner' in your brand new twin turbo'd V8 M5; delivering north of 600 bhp but with a hefty weight to go with it, and you went on track and pushed it to its limits. You'd very quickly have a big bill for new tyres and would have halved the life of your expensive pads and discs. You will also have the potential for a very expensive 'off'. As others have said, you'd be better paying for good tuition, or do a skid-pad or the like.
I guess it's different if you own a Caterham or Atom but not many do.
So you could be a 'very fast car owner' in your brand new twin turbo'd V8 M5; delivering north of 600 bhp but with a hefty weight to go with it, and you went on track and pushed it to its limits. You'd very quickly have a big bill for new tyres and would have halved the life of your expensive pads and discs. You will also have the potential for a very expensive 'off'. As others have said, you'd be better paying for good tuition, or do a skid-pad or the like.
I guess it's different if you own a Caterham or Atom but not many do.
I did a fair amount of specialist training back in my 20's and have driven on track a couple of times in the last 15 years its something that i would like to do but 1) Some track days have total idiots on and 2) My car cost over £80k so I'm a little reticent bearing in mind the cost of insurance and conditions
Finally I don't drive my car anywhere near its limits on the road and probably wouldn't on the track either
Finally I don't drive my car anywhere near its limits on the road and probably wouldn't on the track either
liner33 said:
I did a fair amount of specialist training back in my 20's
My specialist training was a large empty piece of land/tarmac years ago doing donuts and sliding my 200SX around to get a feel for how it handled! 
It was a crude way of learning, but it definitely helped get me used to how the car felt to drive when you pushed it though.
cerb4.5lee said:
My specialist training was a large empty piece of land/tarmac years ago doing donuts and sliding my 200SX around to get a feel for how it handled!
It was a crude way of learning, but it definitely helped get me used to how the car felt to drive when you pushed it though.
Think I'm a bit older so mine was a 3.0 litre Capri. It was a crude way of learning, but it definitely helped get me used to how the car felt to drive when you pushed it though.
I did some proper training as well though as part of my job at the time
RemarkLima said:
I really value the skills learnt from track days and later racing - the car control, appreciation of speed, and how quickly things can go wrong, and I'm fairly sure that without that I'd still be driving like a ham-fisted loon!
Ha, I've seen your loon driving on track, chapliner33 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
My specialist training was a large empty piece of land/tarmac years ago doing donuts and sliding my 200SX around to get a feel for how it handled!
It was a crude way of learning, but it definitely helped get me used to how the car felt to drive when you pushed it though.
Think I'm a bit older so mine was a 3.0 litre Capri. It was a crude way of learning, but it definitely helped get me used to how the car felt to drive when you pushed it though.
I did some proper training as well though as part of my job at the time
BrettMRC said:
Track experience isn't relevent beyond understanding handling limits - limits that you shouldn't be approaching on the road anyway...
That was what really shocked me as a passenger on a track too. The way you drive on a track is completely different to the road in terms of braking/car positioning in the corners etc. It really opened me eyes to how different things are on a track versus the road. I wasn't used to smooth tarmac for a start! 
Weirdly I've never lacked confidence driving on the road, however I don't feel like I have enough confidence to drive on a track though. Plus I'm not willing to put my own car through the extremes that a car goes through when it is on a track(brakes/tyres etc).
I doubt many people with powerful cars have done any track days whatsoever. Powerful cars aren't necessarily any good on the track anyway.
I remember being at a track day years back when the 6.2 litre E63 was a current model. Obscene power and performance for the day. One chap showed up in his, and had an awful time; yes he was powering down the straights but it was far too fat and imprecise to enjoy the corners. I was chatting with him in the pits and he was far from a noob, his trackday obsession had cost him his marriage (probably a member here!) so it wasn't a case of "I've got a fast car now so I will do a track day".
This is why we have straightliner events such as VMax; it's a different sort of fun but despite enjoying them myself I've never come away thinking "my car handling skills have improved after a day of blatting down a dead straight, flat, empty, 100 metre wide strip of concrete and tarmac". Whereas track events I usually leave feeling a bit more confident (not over confident!) in my cornering abilities.
I remember being at a track day years back when the 6.2 litre E63 was a current model. Obscene power and performance for the day. One chap showed up in his, and had an awful time; yes he was powering down the straights but it was far too fat and imprecise to enjoy the corners. I was chatting with him in the pits and he was far from a noob, his trackday obsession had cost him his marriage (probably a member here!) so it wasn't a case of "I've got a fast car now so I will do a track day".
This is why we have straightliner events such as VMax; it's a different sort of fun but despite enjoying them myself I've never come away thinking "my car handling skills have improved after a day of blatting down a dead straight, flat, empty, 100 metre wide strip of concrete and tarmac". Whereas track events I usually leave feeling a bit more confident (not over confident!) in my cornering abilities.
Iamnotkloot said:
I used to do track days when I had a 911 but as for taking my M5 on track, why?
So you could be a 'very fast car owner' in your brand new twin turbo'd V8 M5; delivering north of 600 bhp but with a hefty weight to go with it, and you went on track and pushed it to its limits. You'd very quickly have a big bill for new tyres and would have halved the life of your expensive pads and discs. You will also have the potential for a very expensive 'off'. As others have said, you'd be better paying for good tuition, or do a skid-pad or the like.
I guess it's different if you own a Caterham or Atom but not many do.
I'm in more or less the same position - I've done a few track days in varying machinery but I've not taken my 400bhp+ car (RS5) on track because of the same reasons, it goes through enough tires and brakes as it is without hustling it around a track all day. And it's my only car so if run out of talent and crash it I'm stuck with a giant bill to get back on the road again.So you could be a 'very fast car owner' in your brand new twin turbo'd V8 M5; delivering north of 600 bhp but with a hefty weight to go with it, and you went on track and pushed it to its limits. You'd very quickly have a big bill for new tyres and would have halved the life of your expensive pads and discs. You will also have the potential for a very expensive 'off'. As others have said, you'd be better paying for good tuition, or do a skid-pad or the like.
I guess it's different if you own a Caterham or Atom but not many do.
Never a track day. Don't see the relevance for most people, road driving skills (encompassing absolutely all aspects) are 95% different to the skills required to handle a car at its limits.
With modern supercars, sloppy road driving is generally insured against by the car's stability management systems. The main thing is a necessary acclimatization period for the new driver to appreciate that speed is gained extremely rapidly. And that that speed can be inappropriate for the road conditions. Like the OP's Ferrari driver, who did not anticipate that other road users would not expect that sort of speed. Nothing a track day would help with, he might have been a track day star.
With modern supercars, sloppy road driving is generally insured against by the car's stability management systems. The main thing is a necessary acclimatization period for the new driver to appreciate that speed is gained extremely rapidly. And that that speed can be inappropriate for the road conditions. Like the OP's Ferrari driver, who did not anticipate that other road users would not expect that sort of speed. Nothing a track day would help with, he might have been a track day star.
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