HMRC: Paying back overpayment
Discussion
Quick recap...
HMRC recently sent a letter out of the blue to advise that I had been overpaid back in 2013 to the tune of four figures and how will I be paying it back. This relates to child tax credits paid during a previous and now very much over no contact relationship however when that ended, I took great care to cut all ties and ensured any outstanding matters were closed, including writing to HMRC to advise of my change in circumstances and specifically requested that any ongoing matters be addressed.
Nothing was received so hence, some 9 years later this comes as a bit of a surprise and a shock and isn't something I'm willing to roll over and pay. I spoke to an advisor at HMRC who was petty terrible, fumbled his way along, quoted several different figures and stated that "they could not access any records" dating that far back, ie the letter I sent. Unfortunately I don't have any records, no copy of the letter, no bank records, nothing as we're almost a decade with no contact.
It's all a bit of a mess.
HMRC recently sent a letter out of the blue to advise that I had been overpaid back in 2013 to the tune of four figures and how will I be paying it back. This relates to child tax credits paid during a previous and now very much over no contact relationship however when that ended, I took great care to cut all ties and ensured any outstanding matters were closed, including writing to HMRC to advise of my change in circumstances and specifically requested that any ongoing matters be addressed.
Nothing was received so hence, some 9 years later this comes as a bit of a surprise and a shock and isn't something I'm willing to roll over and pay. I spoke to an advisor at HMRC who was petty terrible, fumbled his way along, quoted several different figures and stated that "they could not access any records" dating that far back, ie the letter I sent. Unfortunately I don't have any records, no copy of the letter, no bank records, nothing as we're almost a decade with no contact.
It's all a bit of a mess.
Edited by Davie on Friday 6th January 18:05
So, unbelievably I find myself picking this up.
Back in August I followed the HMRC complaints process and put in writing that a) I dispute the debt b) they seem unable to furnish me with dates, times, copies of letters and c) that the time elapsed is unacceptable and therefore I refute any claim given the position I find myself in due to the time this has gone unmentioned and thus, I cannot prove anything as no records exist. I received the automated reply, somebody will review and contact you by phone or email to discuss etc etc.
Today, a letter from HMRC pointing out I'm now due £2444 (again, another totally different figure and almost doubled now yet no payments have been made since 2015) and they'd like it all back by the 3rd of February. That's it no breakdown, no proof of any payments made, no copy of the letter I sent way back in 2013 / 2014 declaring my changed circumstances and no acknowledgment of my complaint in any ways, shape or form. I've since spent about 2hrs trying to call them as it says "You need to call us" and now I'm at a loss what to do or how best to progress this. It feels liek figures are being plucked from thin air going back minimum 8yrs and I'm powerless to argue it.
Putting it in writing seems logical but aside for reiterating what I have said in my complaint letter, I can't do any more to provide specific dates, copies of the letter I wrote to them declaring my changed circumstances nor can I confirm any payment dates / amounts received prior to or around this period. Definitely very much on the back foot here due to the frankly unacceptable time period that has passed and therefore it feels like there is no regard for the circumstances, pay this or it goes to a debt recovery organisation.
Clutching at straws but can anybody offer any advice with regards to how best to escalate this as it would appear the complaints process is futile as it appears to have gone totally ignored, which is an issue in itself. Taking legal advice seems the logical step but I literally have nothing aside for the first letter received August 2022, the email acknowledging my complaint in October 2022 and then second latter date January 2023.
Thanks
Back in August I followed the HMRC complaints process and put in writing that a) I dispute the debt b) they seem unable to furnish me with dates, times, copies of letters and c) that the time elapsed is unacceptable and therefore I refute any claim given the position I find myself in due to the time this has gone unmentioned and thus, I cannot prove anything as no records exist. I received the automated reply, somebody will review and contact you by phone or email to discuss etc etc.
Today, a letter from HMRC pointing out I'm now due £2444 (again, another totally different figure and almost doubled now yet no payments have been made since 2015) and they'd like it all back by the 3rd of February. That's it no breakdown, no proof of any payments made, no copy of the letter I sent way back in 2013 / 2014 declaring my changed circumstances and no acknowledgment of my complaint in any ways, shape or form. I've since spent about 2hrs trying to call them as it says "You need to call us" and now I'm at a loss what to do or how best to progress this. It feels liek figures are being plucked from thin air going back minimum 8yrs and I'm powerless to argue it.
Putting it in writing seems logical but aside for reiterating what I have said in my complaint letter, I can't do any more to provide specific dates, copies of the letter I wrote to them declaring my changed circumstances nor can I confirm any payment dates / amounts received prior to or around this period. Definitely very much on the back foot here due to the frankly unacceptable time period that has passed and therefore it feels like there is no regard for the circumstances, pay this or it goes to a debt recovery organisation.
Clutching at straws but can anybody offer any advice with regards to how best to escalate this as it would appear the complaints process is futile as it appears to have gone totally ignored, which is an issue in itself. Taking legal advice seems the logical step but I literally have nothing aside for the first letter received August 2022, the email acknowledging my complaint in October 2022 and then second latter date January 2023.
Thanks
Birkin1932 said:
Very useful.Applying legal principles you are entitled to know what the amount is based on - ask HMRC for ALL documents and figures they have used.
Legal advice will cost and won't necessarily resolve anything.
Make sure you reply to every "demand".
Can HMRC make such demands after this length of time? NI can't go back more than four or six years.
Thanks gents
A letter, dated the same date as their demand arrived a few days later and has a break down of the dates / costs but what it does communicate that hasn't been mentioned previously is that the lions share of the payment is for April 2014 to April 2015 and having delved into my somewhat limited memory, I left the relationship, moved out and wrote to HMRC (along with many other shared commitments) and declared my changed circumstances and requested any unsettled matters be addressed around March 2014.
The HMRC claim they wrote to me in 2016 however cannot confirm what address they wrote to me at which raises my doubts more so as now, they want this paid back by mid February or it'll be debt recovery etc etc... and yet they didn't go down that route in 2016... or 17... or 18... or any year that followed for that matter up until August 2022, which strikes me as a bit of a concern. More of a concern is the fact I have nothing dating back to this period, ironically I threw most of it out about 5 years ago and such has the time that has passed, emails are now obsolete and I'm also struggling to find records of the letter I sent declaring my changed circumstances, which I sent recorded. But the HMRC have no record of this. Of course they don't.
Part of me would pay the 2013 / 2014 costs through gritted teeth just to get rid of this as I'm weighing up if the time, hassle, stress and arguments this has caused in the house lately is actually worth the sake of a few hundred pounds. However I absolutely refute the 2014/15 overpayment, but proving that is looking nigh on impossible thanks to the ridiculous time scales in play here and that alone seems utterly unreasonable. Have also tried calling several times to no avail so it'll be a letter, recorded delivery and escalate the complaint.
Happy new year...
A letter, dated the same date as their demand arrived a few days later and has a break down of the dates / costs but what it does communicate that hasn't been mentioned previously is that the lions share of the payment is for April 2014 to April 2015 and having delved into my somewhat limited memory, I left the relationship, moved out and wrote to HMRC (along with many other shared commitments) and declared my changed circumstances and requested any unsettled matters be addressed around March 2014.
The HMRC claim they wrote to me in 2016 however cannot confirm what address they wrote to me at which raises my doubts more so as now, they want this paid back by mid February or it'll be debt recovery etc etc... and yet they didn't go down that route in 2016... or 17... or 18... or any year that followed for that matter up until August 2022, which strikes me as a bit of a concern. More of a concern is the fact I have nothing dating back to this period, ironically I threw most of it out about 5 years ago and such has the time that has passed, emails are now obsolete and I'm also struggling to find records of the letter I sent declaring my changed circumstances, which I sent recorded. But the HMRC have no record of this. Of course they don't.
Part of me would pay the 2013 / 2014 costs through gritted teeth just to get rid of this as I'm weighing up if the time, hassle, stress and arguments this has caused in the house lately is actually worth the sake of a few hundred pounds. However I absolutely refute the 2014/15 overpayment, but proving that is looking nigh on impossible thanks to the ridiculous time scales in play here and that alone seems utterly unreasonable. Have also tried calling several times to no avail so it'll be a letter, recorded delivery and escalate the complaint.
Happy new year...
Edited by Davie on Tuesday 10th January 19:30
SimonTheSailor said:
If you were being paid something by HMRC - could you ask your bank to see if they have records of this ?
I've changed banks a couple of times in the past 9 years and the account that any payments were made to was a joint account which I also removed myself from as part of my departure from the relationship in early 2014. I couldn't honestly say who I was with back then, possibly Clydesdale who no longer exist. Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff