Father in law being manipulated - any legal footing?
Discussion
Hi,
Long one and I will try to summarise and not miss parts. Wife lives 300 miles away from her Dad, her Dad has traditional views and has never supported her independence or career (Nurse) and has always said he expects her at home to look after him now her mother has passed away.
18mths ago a cleaner 26 years younger than the my FIL came on to the scene. My wife noticed a few items of silver went missing and asked her Dad and he confirmed no one other than the cleaner had been in the house. It was a red flag but FIL was happy to have someone around who cleaned and also started cooking for him so they let it slide.
On proceeding visits items of clothing and footware belonging to the cleaner were being left about the house and my wife asked her Dad what the deal was and he said we're just friends but opened up that she had kissed him on his cheek and he wasn't sure what it all meant ergo school boy with first crush. Anyway we talked it through and told him to be careful but ultimately wanted him to be happy.
We met the cleaner and the first thing she said to my wife was - you don't come home enough, you have deserted you father. Why don't your children ever wear dresses (they do but so what). As she said this stuff she looked at wife's father nodding as if to get approval for the statement. Odd. We left it and went home from our visit.
About 12 mths ago we noticed items of furniture and stuff being sold on Facebook by the Cleaner. It was around about this time my wife's Dad started to stop responding to calls and text messages. They did eventually speak (incidently when he was on his tractor away from home) he just brushed it off.
About 6 months ago my wife gets a text from her Dad out of the blue saying you need to come home the cleaner is moving in within 1 week. Weird and not easy to do but she did and found all of her stuff had been removed from the house and bagged up and put in the garage by the cleaner. Odd way to make a relationship but there you go.
Unfortunatley this stuff contained your typical hand written notes on cards etc from her mother so this upset my wife a bit but it is what it is. The stuff was stored in the loft and the space has instead now been used for the Cleaners daughter (at Uni) and sons stuff (he is this guy serving the prison sentance bad apple . The house is not small its a 6 bedroom bungalow on a small holding with land and loads of outbuildings. Space is not an issue.
On this visit, which also coincided with the Cleaner being rushed to hospital for sepsis we were a little bit concerned on the above red flags. My wife's father knew the lad was in prison but didn't know what for (or chose not to say) and as there was paperwork - letters - in the kitchen we managed to find out what had happened as the Son has a different surname to the mother. Her father stood up for the lad and said he just fell into the wrong crowd (later we have found he has been visiting him in prison). There was other paperwork about the place and some of it related to claiming carers support for some old guy the other side of the country.
We talked to her father about her moving in and what she was going to do with her Council house (she lived in with her boyfriend). He said she didn't want to run 2 houses and that she is handing it over to her boyfriend (ex). It was also at the point that my wife asked to go and see the solicitor. Prior to her mother dying the house was put into tenants in common 50/50 and on her death 50% went into Trust with my wife as the beneficiary. The Trust (don't have a copy but wife did sign it) doesn't say anything about someone else moving in so my wife wanted to square things. They did end up going to an appoinment but my wife's Dad was mute throughout and he did also say he wanted the Cleaner to come with him but my wife said no.
On the car journey home their relationship and conversations was back to normal and they were chatting as normal. They talked about the house being sold in 3 months of his death and Alison accessing her 50% at that point. No problem. They never talk of her fathers 50% as it's none of our business and that's fine.
We went home and about 2 months later, again no replies to wifes messages and my wife ended up contacting his friend from the village who said he was very concerned about my wife's Dad. Everyone is talking about it etc etc.
A couple of days later we got a message from her Dad says the Cleaner has moved out! Wife calls and he answers and basically she moved out, back to the council house she said she had given up, becuause she was not happy she would be homeless after 3 months and she was also not happy my wife came back to the house when she was on her "death bed" (probably becuase she left all her infomration everywhere). Wife's Dad also said she was going back to the council house every night when he went to bed (8pm) and was returning in the early hours and he wasn't happy about that either.
My wife and breathed a sigh relief and thought great that is over.
We went back there this month and the cleaner is still popping in every day and all of her stuff is still in the house. My wife's father is still very much into her. Unfortunatley the cleaner came down on our 2nd from last day drunk or under someform of influence and aggressively argued with my wife saying she had desserted him, the relationship is private and none of her business, told her she is a crap daughter etc etc. You get the picture and i was called in to break it up. My wife was not aggressive back, she is a professional and a Nurse so can deal with people. This all happened in front my my 8 and 6 year old girls and her father who said nothing.
Anyway the aftermath once she had gone a few things got mentioned that are concerning and we are concluding my wife's Dad is being groomed/manipulated and we don't really know what to do about it:
1. Father in law admitted to us Cleaner has a fierry temper and he has been on the recieving end on a few occassions.
2. He is talking about selling the house and buying a new house with the cleaner. The cleaner is not happy my wife can come home freely (she was born in the house but never turns up without months notice as we have kids and she works).
3. Father in law is also talking about changing the Trust so that my wife has nothing and the cleaner gets it instead.
4. He said to me he used to have few thousand pounds in account but now he has nothing. He wouldn't tell me any more after I probed. He will talk to me more than my wife.
4. On a previous occassion my wife said she would not be able to come back to the house with our kids if the son lived in one of the static caravans after prison. Since then his car has appeared in the yard and it just looks like he's going to end up living there. Father in law has been regularly visitng him in prison and has been talking about him helping out about the place. Father in law thinks is a nice lad that just fell in with the wrong crowd.
In my eyes, and i could be making my own conclusions, the Cleaner knows father in law wants her, she wants the house so has moved out but is still hanging around manipulating the situation. Ideas of selling the family home (that my Father in law has said he would never want to leave) are cropping up and she's moving her Sons stuff in knowing (probably) that it will split my wife and father further.
I did suggest to Father in law that if Cleaner is worried about losing her security why doesn't she just keep the council, continue sub letting to exboyfriend for £600 a month and move in with you. Problem solved. Father in law does see that as a logical solution and can see things are not normal in the whole situation. He is worried about being old, not able to drive and ending up in a care home. In the past we have talked about this and said he can move with us but he doesn't want to leave where he is from.
What a mess.
Answers on a post card please. I don't think there is a legal route. I would say he still has his marbles.
Long one and I will try to summarise and not miss parts. Wife lives 300 miles away from her Dad, her Dad has traditional views and has never supported her independence or career (Nurse) and has always said he expects her at home to look after him now her mother has passed away.
18mths ago a cleaner 26 years younger than the my FIL came on to the scene. My wife noticed a few items of silver went missing and asked her Dad and he confirmed no one other than the cleaner had been in the house. It was a red flag but FIL was happy to have someone around who cleaned and also started cooking for him so they let it slide.
On proceeding visits items of clothing and footware belonging to the cleaner were being left about the house and my wife asked her Dad what the deal was and he said we're just friends but opened up that she had kissed him on his cheek and he wasn't sure what it all meant ergo school boy with first crush. Anyway we talked it through and told him to be careful but ultimately wanted him to be happy.
We met the cleaner and the first thing she said to my wife was - you don't come home enough, you have deserted you father. Why don't your children ever wear dresses (they do but so what). As she said this stuff she looked at wife's father nodding as if to get approval for the statement. Odd. We left it and went home from our visit.
About 12 mths ago we noticed items of furniture and stuff being sold on Facebook by the Cleaner. It was around about this time my wife's Dad started to stop responding to calls and text messages. They did eventually speak (incidently when he was on his tractor away from home) he just brushed it off.
About 6 months ago my wife gets a text from her Dad out of the blue saying you need to come home the cleaner is moving in within 1 week. Weird and not easy to do but she did and found all of her stuff had been removed from the house and bagged up and put in the garage by the cleaner. Odd way to make a relationship but there you go.
Unfortunatley this stuff contained your typical hand written notes on cards etc from her mother so this upset my wife a bit but it is what it is. The stuff was stored in the loft and the space has instead now been used for the Cleaners daughter (at Uni) and sons stuff (he is this guy serving the prison sentance bad apple . The house is not small its a 6 bedroom bungalow on a small holding with land and loads of outbuildings. Space is not an issue.
On this visit, which also coincided with the Cleaner being rushed to hospital for sepsis we were a little bit concerned on the above red flags. My wife's father knew the lad was in prison but didn't know what for (or chose not to say) and as there was paperwork - letters - in the kitchen we managed to find out what had happened as the Son has a different surname to the mother. Her father stood up for the lad and said he just fell into the wrong crowd (later we have found he has been visiting him in prison). There was other paperwork about the place and some of it related to claiming carers support for some old guy the other side of the country.
We talked to her father about her moving in and what she was going to do with her Council house (she lived in with her boyfriend). He said she didn't want to run 2 houses and that she is handing it over to her boyfriend (ex). It was also at the point that my wife asked to go and see the solicitor. Prior to her mother dying the house was put into tenants in common 50/50 and on her death 50% went into Trust with my wife as the beneficiary. The Trust (don't have a copy but wife did sign it) doesn't say anything about someone else moving in so my wife wanted to square things. They did end up going to an appoinment but my wife's Dad was mute throughout and he did also say he wanted the Cleaner to come with him but my wife said no.
On the car journey home their relationship and conversations was back to normal and they were chatting as normal. They talked about the house being sold in 3 months of his death and Alison accessing her 50% at that point. No problem. They never talk of her fathers 50% as it's none of our business and that's fine.
We went home and about 2 months later, again no replies to wifes messages and my wife ended up contacting his friend from the village who said he was very concerned about my wife's Dad. Everyone is talking about it etc etc.
A couple of days later we got a message from her Dad says the Cleaner has moved out! Wife calls and he answers and basically she moved out, back to the council house she said she had given up, becuause she was not happy she would be homeless after 3 months and she was also not happy my wife came back to the house when she was on her "death bed" (probably becuase she left all her infomration everywhere). Wife's Dad also said she was going back to the council house every night when he went to bed (8pm) and was returning in the early hours and he wasn't happy about that either.
My wife and breathed a sigh relief and thought great that is over.
We went back there this month and the cleaner is still popping in every day and all of her stuff is still in the house. My wife's father is still very much into her. Unfortunatley the cleaner came down on our 2nd from last day drunk or under someform of influence and aggressively argued with my wife saying she had desserted him, the relationship is private and none of her business, told her she is a crap daughter etc etc. You get the picture and i was called in to break it up. My wife was not aggressive back, she is a professional and a Nurse so can deal with people. This all happened in front my my 8 and 6 year old girls and her father who said nothing.
Anyway the aftermath once she had gone a few things got mentioned that are concerning and we are concluding my wife's Dad is being groomed/manipulated and we don't really know what to do about it:
1. Father in law admitted to us Cleaner has a fierry temper and he has been on the recieving end on a few occassions.
2. He is talking about selling the house and buying a new house with the cleaner. The cleaner is not happy my wife can come home freely (she was born in the house but never turns up without months notice as we have kids and she works).
3. Father in law is also talking about changing the Trust so that my wife has nothing and the cleaner gets it instead.
4. He said to me he used to have few thousand pounds in account but now he has nothing. He wouldn't tell me any more after I probed. He will talk to me more than my wife.
4. On a previous occassion my wife said she would not be able to come back to the house with our kids if the son lived in one of the static caravans after prison. Since then his car has appeared in the yard and it just looks like he's going to end up living there. Father in law has been regularly visitng him in prison and has been talking about him helping out about the place. Father in law thinks is a nice lad that just fell in with the wrong crowd.
In my eyes, and i could be making my own conclusions, the Cleaner knows father in law wants her, she wants the house so has moved out but is still hanging around manipulating the situation. Ideas of selling the family home (that my Father in law has said he would never want to leave) are cropping up and she's moving her Sons stuff in knowing (probably) that it will split my wife and father further.
I did suggest to Father in law that if Cleaner is worried about losing her security why doesn't she just keep the council, continue sub letting to exboyfriend for £600 a month and move in with you. Problem solved. Father in law does see that as a logical solution and can see things are not normal in the whole situation. He is worried about being old, not able to drive and ending up in a care home. In the past we have talked about this and said he can move with us but he doesn't want to leave where he is from.
What a mess.
Answers on a post card please. I don't think there is a legal route. I would say he still has his marbles.
Edited by _Mja_ on Friday 26th August 13:08
Take the cleaner thing out of the equation.
If FIL met young lass in the local pub and announced he was moving and having wonderful sex all the time, what laws is he braking?
I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) there are no laws being broken if he has, as you say, all his marbles.
Wife might suggest something in a will for her, however I'm sure she's not just after some cash.
Might it be worth talking it through with those that know: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health...
Call the Age UK Advice Line on 0800 678 1602
Call Hourglass on 0808 808 8141 or visit their website
That would be my first port of call, unless anyone has direct experience of what to do.
Keep it factual and honest.
Don't embellish anything.
If FIL met young lass in the local pub and announced he was moving and having wonderful sex all the time, what laws is he braking?
I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) there are no laws being broken if he has, as you say, all his marbles.
Wife might suggest something in a will for her, however I'm sure she's not just after some cash.
Might it be worth talking it through with those that know: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/health...
Call the Age UK Advice Line on 0800 678 1602
Call Hourglass on 0808 808 8141 or visit their website
That would be my first port of call, unless anyone has direct experience of what to do.
Keep it factual and honest.
Don't embellish anything.
Good shout that probably is the right place to go - AgeUK.
I assume he has his marbles but he is behaving out of character. For example, he is having his foreskin removed this week as that is what the cleaner prefers. He is an 80 year bloke and has got this far in life - why go through the risk of a general. We only know because he is very worried about the general and asked my wife, a nurse, for advice.
I assume he has his marbles but he is behaving out of character. For example, he is having his foreskin removed this week as that is what the cleaner prefers. He is an 80 year bloke and has got this far in life - why go through the risk of a general. We only know because he is very worried about the general and asked my wife, a nurse, for advice.
_Mja_ said:
Good shout that probably is the right place to go - AgeUK.
I assume he has his marbles but he is behaving out of character. For example, he is having his foreskin removed this week as that is what the cleaner prefers. He is an 80 year bloke and has got this far in life - why go through the risk of a general. We only know because he is very worried about the general and asked my wife, a nurse, for advice.
I guess that's about as good a definition of 'thinking with the little head' as one can get.I assume he has his marbles but he is behaving out of character. For example, he is having his foreskin removed this week as that is what the cleaner prefers. He is an 80 year bloke and has got this far in life - why go through the risk of a general. We only know because he is very worried about the general and asked my wife, a nurse, for advice.
Give them a call now, I suspect they'll be quiet this afternoon, judging by our office!
pocketspring said:
She's not from the Philippines is she....
THIS ^^^ ! Where is she from? Roots? You'll probably have all the answers you need once this has been established.As others have said, pretty clear she's rinsing him but it's his life and his choices, so absolutely nothing you can from that angle. Your only angle would be to deal with the cleaner directly by permanently removing her from the picture via whatever means necessary...
Regarding point 3.
We are setting our wills so that if either me if the wife dies then that half of the house goes in trust for the kids. As it was explained to us the trust kicks in on first death with the survivor having control of the house to be able to sell if moving etc but had no control over the trust to be able to change it.
This would need to be looked at by a professional.
We are setting our wills so that if either me if the wife dies then that half of the house goes in trust for the kids. As it was explained to us the trust kicks in on first death with the survivor having control of the house to be able to sell if moving etc but had no control over the trust to be able to change it.
This would need to be looked at by a professional.
Starfighter said:
Regarding point 3.
We are setting our wills so that if either me if the wife dies then that half of the house goes in trust for the kids. As it was explained to us the trust kicks in on first death with the survivor having control of the house to be able to sell if moving etc but had no control over the trust to be able to change it.
This would need to be looked at by a professional.
This also has the benefit of ring fencing half the property so that if the surviving spouse has to go in to a care home the government can only take half the property for the fees.We are setting our wills so that if either me if the wife dies then that half of the house goes in trust for the kids. As it was explained to us the trust kicks in on first death with the survivor having control of the house to be able to sell if moving etc but had no control over the trust to be able to change it.
This would need to be looked at by a professional.
I think I am right in this, no doubt somebody will correct if not.
Presumably, before any of this happened, being 300 miles away was a decision made based on the fractured if not negligible relationship your wife had with her FIL? The comments about “traditional views” sound like they’re insurmountable at the best of times.
My simple question would be this - what does your wife want as an outcome?
Is there an expectation of an inheritance, despite the significant conflict in values? Would she be happier with the cleaner out of the picture, and FIL potentially lonelier? (but with inheritance locked down)
It doesn’t sound like FIL is in mortal danger from this cleaner, and is getting attention from her, including sexual acts, that he’s happy to receive. The coercion mentioned sounds more to me like the practical reality of influence between someone who is always there for him, on his doorstep vs someone who to all intents and purposes a holiday distance away.
Perhaps it would be better for all concerned if the wife carried on being a very remote part of FIL’s life, due to the conflict in values and whatever else has gone on, and the practical distance, and to forget about any assumed inheritance. FIL doesn’t sound mentally ill, from a medical point of view, so he’s free to make as many bad decisions as he wants. Being 80 and getting his end away (under whatever circumstances) with someone 26 years younger than him, some might argue he’s living his best remaining life. He can’t take any of it with him, after all.
My simple question would be this - what does your wife want as an outcome?
Is there an expectation of an inheritance, despite the significant conflict in values? Would she be happier with the cleaner out of the picture, and FIL potentially lonelier? (but with inheritance locked down)
It doesn’t sound like FIL is in mortal danger from this cleaner, and is getting attention from her, including sexual acts, that he’s happy to receive. The coercion mentioned sounds more to me like the practical reality of influence between someone who is always there for him, on his doorstep vs someone who to all intents and purposes a holiday distance away.
Perhaps it would be better for all concerned if the wife carried on being a very remote part of FIL’s life, due to the conflict in values and whatever else has gone on, and the practical distance, and to forget about any assumed inheritance. FIL doesn’t sound mentally ill, from a medical point of view, so he’s free to make as many bad decisions as he wants. Being 80 and getting his end away (under whatever circumstances) with someone 26 years younger than him, some might argue he’s living his best remaining life. He can’t take any of it with him, after all.
piddy44 said:
r3g said:
pocketspring said:
She's not from the Philippines is she....
THIS ^^^ ! Where is she from? Roots? You'll probably have all the answers you need once this has been established.https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/15184722.t...
Jasandjules said:
If he still has his marbles then there is little you can do I am afraid. There are two heads in play, and it is not the one that should be making decisions that is.
Be aware, you may not see that house at all, I would not be shocked if the will is changed.
Ahhhh the will...Be aware, you may not see that house at all, I would not be shocked if the will is changed.
What makes folks think they have a right to the estate.... trouble is if this old guy has more fun and enjoys his girlfriend.....
ruggedscotty said:
Jasandjules said:
If he still has his marbles then there is little you can do I am afraid. There are two heads in play, and it is not the one that should be making decisions that is.
Be aware, you may not see that house at all, I would not be shocked if the will is changed.
Ahhhh the will...Be aware, you may not see that house at all, I would not be shocked if the will is changed.
What makes folks think they have a right to the estate.... trouble is if this old guy has more fun and enjoys his girlfriend.....
The FIL is being taken for a mug.
If he's cogniscent of being a meal ticket and giving everything - which it will be - to his new girlfriend and her unsavoury family then so be it.
If he's not and he can't be woken up to the fact then so be it.
If he thinks her son is somehow redeemed after prison time, following a despicable sexual assault then maybe he doesn't have his marbles
. Joking aside he could well be in physical danger when the scrote gets out if he doesn't do his girlfriend's bidding. Put cards on the table then if he doesnt see the bleedingly obvious and understand what he's getting into and the risks, walk away from the car crash.
Risks = losing control of his life, physical threat from scrote, ending up penniless in a bedsit at 80.
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