RE: Steal or no steal | Extinct six-pot hot hatches
RE: Steal or no steal | Extinct six-pot hot hatches
Saturday 27th August 2022

Steal or no steal | Extinct six-pot hot hatches

Fitting a six-cylinder engine to a humble hatchback used to be a shortcut to greatness. We salute the fallen...


Audi A3 3.2, 2004, 73k, £5,000

Feeling brave? Go have a look on PH for how much a Mk4, three-door Golf R32 might cost. Yes, it really is that much. If you can find one with a five-figure mileage for less than £15k, you’re doing better than us. And yet the Audi equivalent is a third of the price - a third!

No, seriously. Here’s a 3.2-litre Audi A3 from 2004, with a smidge more power than the Golf in fact (250hp against 240hp) in three-door, manual spec; it has 73,000 miles recorded, looks smart enough in subdued silver, and is for sale at £5,000. As a 2004 model it won’t incur the punitive taxes applied to high CO2 cars from a couple of years later (Mk5 Golf R32 among them), though a claimed 26mpg won’t change.

Still, it looks a bargain. It’s weird to discuss the Audi that lacks brand cachet, but there’s no doubting the popularity accrued by R-badged Golfs in the UK over the past 20 years. It’ll even have limited appeal to Audi folk, without an S badge to mark it out, let alone an RS3 one - this is years before that car, even though it eventually arrived in this ‘8P’ era. For those, however, who love a great V6 - of the sort that is never, ever returning to the humble hatchback - 150mph potential and all-wheel drive security in a super subtle package, it’s hard to think of much better.

See the full ad here

BMW 130i, 2006, 67k, £6,750

If all-wheel drive security seems a bit safe, though, how about some rear-drive rowdiness courtesy of BMW? Though the best-known models are the later M135i and M140i of the F20 era, BMW had been stuffing big sixes into its smallest correct drive cars for a while before then. There had been the 325ti version of the E46 Compact, and then this: the E81/7 BMW 130i. Rare, fast, quirky and good value, it’s the perfect reminder that interesting old cars are still out there for sensible money.

Powered by the sonorous N52 straight six, the 130i had the sort of performance specs that would keep it competitive today: 265hp and 223lb ft, allied to rear-drive traction, meant 0-62mph in just 6.1 seconds and 155mph. Back in the day, the 1 Series wasn’t the best hot hatch out there (housing that engine meant it was cramped inside) but all these years later a big straight six and RWD ought to be persuasive enough.

And if those two factors aren’t enough, this one has a six-speed manual gearbox as well. If not quite perfect cosmetically, this 1 Series has had some recent mechanical work and a service with its most recent MOT. No better thing to remind you of how BMWs - and the odd hot hatch curio - used to be.

See the full ad here

Alfa Romeo 147 GTA, 2006, 45k, £10,995

Something more exotic to finish off with, as there’s no way a list like this would be complete without the Alfa Romeo 147 GTA. (And yes, a Clio V6 would have been great, but £50k is hardly a steal to anyone). The Busso V6 powered all manner of cars over its long and illustrious career, but none was quite so daft - and therefore likeable - as the little 147 hatchback. At the time of the GTA’s launch 20 years ago, the 147 was offered with nothing more potent than a 150hp 2.0-litre; then along came a swashbuckling flagship with another 1.2-litres of capacity and 100hp, taking three seconds from the 0-62mph time and adding almost 25mph to the top speed.

The GTA was as wild as those stats made it sound, taking an ordinary compact hatch and making a monster of it. Even by the standards of the early 2000s the 147 was a little unruly, lacking a limited-slip diff or all-wheel drive to best get the Busso’s considerable power to the ground. A GTA was nothing if not a memorable drive, put it that way.

In the years since, the aftermarket has tamed the GTA a little, making the most of that performance. Those improvements, along with the 147’s stunning looks and iconic powertrain, has seen values rise in the past few years. This one is cheaper than most at £11k as a modified, imported car with the less desirable Selespeed gearbox. Still, if it’s as good as the advert suggests, then a GTA still looks like money well spent.

See the full ad here


Author
Discussion

roy928tt

Original Poster:

73 posts

169 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
Hmm..... no Mazda MX3 / Eunos 30X

rallycross

13,758 posts

268 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
roy928tt said:
Hmm..... no Mazda MX3 / Eunos 30X
You mean 323 zxi v6?
That was a hatch
The ones you mentioned are coupe

b14

1,311 posts

219 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
I had a 3.2 A3 for a few years, 5 door with DSG. It wasn't great - whilst it was quick in a straight line and made a nice noise, there was nothing else to love. Boring to drive.

sifocus

104 posts

205 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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Brought an Alfa 147 v6 in as part exchange against a new golf gti circa 2012. Sounds absolutely gorgeous! Snuck it out one evening after we had locked up. Took it up some local country roads in north Manchester to see what it could do. I was young and silly back then. After five minutes there was a rather large smell of coolant flooding the cabin and steam coming through the vents and bellowing out of the engine. Crapped myself! How was I going to explain that to my sales manager? Anyway, I let it cool down, coasted all the way to the dealership, parked it up and never said a word. It went to auction and no-one knew it had happened. Never will I drive a v6 Alfa again :-)

rotaryjam

741 posts

132 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
The Alfa 147 GTA is fantastic and awful at the same time

Fantastic engine, looks, sound

Awful interior, handling, reliability (?)

The steering is so ridiculously quick on them that it really exposes the chasis and makes it a pig to drive. With a bit slower steering and an LSD as standard it would have been much better imo.

Stuart70

4,166 posts

214 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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You missed out on the epic ‘96 dragoon green with mushroom interior, Golf VR6.
Objectively nose heavy handling, awful MPG and consequent terrible range.

All rendered irrelevant by the VR6 noise and responsiveness.

Got to love a 6 cylinder hot hatch!

adf83

73 posts

82 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
rotaryjam said:
The Alfa 147 GTA is fantastic and awful at the same time

Fantastic engine, looks, sound

Awful interior, handling, reliability (?)

The steering is so ridiculously quick on them that it really exposes the chasis and makes it a pig to drive. With a bit slower steering and an LSD as standard it would have been much better imo.
I don’t think any part of the car can be described as awful. Obviously the engine is the star of the show but I think the interior is pretty decent for a 20 year old car with nice leather and decent build.

The steering isn’t especially quick. It’s something like 1.7 turns lock-to-lock but that’s more to do with the fact it has a terrible turning circle. The feel of the steering and feedback is actually pretty good. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a standard car now. Most have coilover suspension, upgraded ARBs and LSDs and are nicely sorted cars which handle well.

As for reliability my personal experience has been pretty good. It’s certainly not a cheap car to maintain but I think that would be a similar case for any similar age car if you are trying to keep it in good condition. Parts availability however, that’s another matter!



Court_S

14,809 posts

208 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
The 130i is a great little car, if somewhat forgotten. I loved my LE.



It was genuinely good fun to drive and the N52 is a fabulous engine that loves to be rev’d.

Mine had a few mods; Birds B1 suspension (luckily the previous owner swapped that bill), M3 LCA’s, camber plates, 135i back box, BMW carbon intake etc.

The gear change is easily resolved by removing the CDV and changing the gearbox oil and white shifter bush. It’ll never be Honda good but it can be vastly improved. The stock exhaust is a tad muted. Ideally I’d want a BMW Performance exhaust but they’re like rocking horse poo now, so I settled for a 135i back box which added a bit more noise. My 130i replaced an M140i and I genuinely had more fun driving the older car.

Some prefer the pre-facelift cars because they have HPAS, but I don’t think the later EPAS is that bad (it’s better than modern BMW systems). The interior of the later cars is usefully better, so I’d happily compromise on the steering.

It’s always surprises me how cheap these are compared a Golf R32. I guess the VE scene tax goes some way to keep prices high.

TristPerrin

148 posts

209 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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Loved my LCI 130i, probably the best overall car I ever owned. As previous poster said, removing the CDV valves makes the shift much better and I mine actually came with the BMW performance exhaust which sounded lovely without being obnoxious.

I sold mine for a new Mk3 Focus ST, which was probably a better handling car(I always thought my 130i felt very heavy), but losing that 3.0 N52 was a big loss.

GreatScott2016

2,576 posts

119 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
rotaryjam said:
The Alfa 147 GTA is fantastic and awful at the same time

Fantastic engine, looks, sound

Awful interior, handling, reliability (?)

The steering is so ridiculously quick on them that it really exposes the chasis and makes it a pig to drive. With a bit slower steering and an LSD as standard it would have been much better imo.
Agree with the positives. From memory though, I thought the interior was fab too, typical Alfa dials and dash etc.

rotaryjam

741 posts

132 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
GreatScott2016 said:
Agree with the positives. From memory though, I thought the interior was fab too, typical Alfa dials and dash etc.
I guess interior is subjective, I came from an Alfa GTV and imo, the interior in that is much nicer

rotaryjam

741 posts

132 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
adf83 said:
I don’t think any part of the car can be described as awful. Obviously the engine is the star of the show but I think the interior is pretty decent for a 20 year old car with nice leather and decent build.

The steering isn’t especially quick. It’s something like 1.7 turns lock-to-lock but that’s more to do with the fact it has a terrible turning circle. The feel of the steering and feedback is actually pretty good. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a standard car now. Most have coilover suspension, upgraded ARBs and LSDs and are nicely sorted cars which handle well.

As for reliability my personal experience has been pretty good. It’s certainly not a cheap car to maintain but I think that would be a similar case for any similar age car if you are trying to keep it in good condition. Parts availability however, that’s another matter!
I'm not sure what you're comparing with to say the steering isn't that quick, its been quoted as fastest on a production car! Struggling to find the source but needless to say, relatively speaking - its FAST

GreatScott2016

2,576 posts

119 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
rotaryjam said:
I guess interior is subjective, I came from an Alfa GTV and imo, the interior in that is much nicer
Fair play, I’ve no ownership experience, was just going by memory pics. Gorgeous looking thing though.

Fusion777

2,631 posts

79 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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Miss the days of 6-cylinder hatches. Many would see it as bland, but I like how subtle the A3 is, especially compared to modern performance offerings. Many cars today are over styled/fussy.

AC43

13,674 posts

239 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
Stuart70 said:
You missed out on the epic ‘96 dragoon green with mushroom interior, Golf VR6.
Objectively nose heavy handling, awful MPG and consequent terrible range.

All rendered irrelevant by the VR6 noise and responsiveness.

Got to love a 6 cylinder hot hatch!
I borrowed one for a weekend and spent a lot of time in Westway tunnels and underpasses. Utterly addictive noise.

I can forgive a car a LOT for a soundtrack like that.

cerb4.5lee

45,096 posts

211 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
I've mostly always prioritised the engine over the actual car, so these 3 have always been up my street. They also remind me of a time when nearly all car manufacturers used to offer a nice V6 petrol engine in their cars.

Now it generally tends to be diesel/petrol hybrid or electric in comparison.

Glenn63

3,968 posts

115 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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Can’t beat big engines in small things. I’m running an m140 at present modified with Bilsteins + other suspension work, lsd and 500bhp and it’s great fun. Does the daily commute stuff, track days, and long road trips to Scotland perfectly well I don’t know what Id replace it with for similar money so itl be here for a while I think.

Edited by Glenn63 on Saturday 27th August 09:49

martin12345

1,014 posts

120 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
Of the 3, the Audi is the least flawed but also the least love-able. Nice piece of transport and the V6 adds a nice sound-track if you prefer to pay for that over a PD engine which feel nearly as fast and nearly double the MPG

The BMW ought to be great and the engine is lovely but the chassis is meah with understeer everywhere and just isn't a lot of fun to drive

The Alfa is tremendous for a 30 min blast; great noise, exciting handling and very fast steering just off centre (it seems to be a linear rack (or close to, whereas many have non-linear rack with a lower rate close to centre to make cars less nervous at fast motorway/autobahn speeds). However I personnally found the car mentally tiring on longer journeys (for the same reasons as why fun on a short one)

Had experience of all of these (and many others) on the fleet my company used to run and one other thing to recount is that the Alfa interior fell apart like no other car. Back to the dealer every 2 or 3 months to have a piece of trim either replaced or refitted whereas virtually every other car needed nothing in that regard


When I chose my company car given the choice of these and others I'm afraid I did the only sensible thing and got a Mk5 Golf GTI as the tax benefits were so large and it was such a good car in every way bar noise

16v stretch

990 posts

188 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
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I've never even come close to keeping my hat in a deal involving an audi.

I sold my 3.2 A3 for £2800 a few weeks back, 90k FSH - I'm talking, previous owner went to the main dealers for wipers and screenwash level of service history. The only genuine detractor is the fact it needed a wheel refurb and a bumper adjustment (at worst, new bumper/wing clips) for it to be mint.

It was only after I'd sold it and took down all the ads (seriously spent about £250 on ads for the bd) that people started messaging me on ebay about it and offering money.

Also, My BMW's have always managed better fuel economy.


I'm not bitter...

Leon R

3,920 posts

127 months

Saturday 27th August 2022
quotequote all
That Alfa with a little work has one of the best engines I have ever experienced.