The Flying Banana - Reliant Scimitar SE5 SC restoration

[geordiepingu]

Hi All

I recently acquired a Scimitar SE5 as a quick and 'cheap' project, so I have something to play with and drive about the alps next summer while I do a very in-depth rebuild (reimagination!) of my TVR.

I've always had a soft spot for the Scimitar having seen one (immaculate) about 15 years ago. Most people would try before investing, but I just went straight into it. It sounds great if you ignore the misfire, the controls make me feel like I'm sat in a Vickers VC-10 or something and the cabin feels nice and airy, albeit the all black carpet, leather and headlining is a bit boring for me. The white stitching isn't enough to get me excited.

Obviously cheap project means the car itself cost about 1/5th of the whole project budget. The goal is that I want to have a car that is supercharged, relatively presentable and most importantly usable from March next year (my birthday). Likely I'll aim to be taking it on the dyno to tweak the carb and timing (or map it on a standalone if I modify the heads to take a cologne EFI manifold?).

It sounds bad but the cars are relatively simple. Here's the list of faults so far:

- GRP needs gel coat repair and repaint
- Bumpers and brightwork need rechroming
- Chassis needs new riggers, wishbone pickup points and body mounts
- Wheels need new tyres and also diamond cutting
- Starter motor is a bit knackered
- Electrics could do with a refresh
- Two of the lights are missing (but I had some new old stock ones spare, thanks to Brian Wright - a TVR friend and client who gave me them!)
- One of the headlamps seems to be at fault
- Ignition switch is loose in the dash
- There's a historic alarm installation although it doesn't seem to be doing much
- There's a bit of a miss on the nearside bank - suspect a fault with the carb but I haven't investigated properly yet
- Brakes are seizing themselves on
- The clutch feels a bit worn - I suspect driving it up the ramp with stuck brakes doesn't help

Now here's the good:
- Interior is relatively clean - just a bit of bolster wear on the driver's seat
- It has Wolfrace slotmags!
- It came with a supercharger, although it's the wrong size
- The dash is in good condition
- The instruments all seem to work besides the fuel gauge, but I'm not sure 5 litres makes a noticeable dent in a 78 litre tank

There seems to be more bad than good... So obviously this is one of those complete rebuild and repaint projects. Seeing as I do quite a bit of British Classic work, albeit mostly with TVRs and Morgans, the idea of lifting a fibreglass body and repairing the car is actually considerably less nasty than doing it to a TVR. The only challenge is I'll be doing it in a workshop without a 2 post lift, so I'll likely end up getting creative using engine cranes to lift the body.

What am I going to do with the help of my friends:
--Starting Yesterday--
- Remove the interior components
- Remove all of the glass and brightwork
- Remove the doors
- Rip out the remnants of whatever alarm is installed
- Repair any corroded supports in the body
- Lift the body from the chassis
- Shotblast the chassis, replace the rotten components
- Treat the cavities with acid, clean and refinish
- Acid dip the suspension components
- Shotblast all of the suspension components with the bushes removed
- Refinish chassis and components in 2k Epoxy Mastic (white - that's what most of the TVR chassis I refinish or repair are, sorry purists!)
- Fit new bushes
- Fit new adjustable suspension (likely Gaz)
- Fit new fuel and brake lines
- Replace the clutch, bearing etc
- Fit new linkage bushes in the gearbox
- Recondition (3rd party) and fit the starter motor
- Replace the front brakes with new calipers (finished VHT blue?), discs, pads
- Shot blast and machine the rear drums, refinish in VHT enamel (blue???)
- Refit the body
- Repair the GRP and ensure consistent finish
- Paint it to an original Reliant yellow colour (not sure what mine is, it's 1971 and typically too faded to tell)
- Hang the doors back on
--Stop for Christmas--


Sometime next year there's scope to work out which order to tackle things in, which depends on how progress in December is made. I'm dabbling with the idea of fitting a modern fusebox and a set of relays in the dash top somewhere, likely an MTA system. I'm not a fan of glass fuses, and I'm not a fan of cars that are prone to catching fire either. Certainly it needs relays adding to get the loads off the switchgear, I suspect my lighting fault at the front of the car is to do with the switching.

Unfortunately I haven't got central locking or power windows, so I may be looking for those as a retrofit. There's the temptation to also retrofit the sunroof, however the likelihood of leak failure is quite high, so a hard top it may stay. As the interior is all in great condition especially when you consider the age, I'm less inclined to cut a big hole into the headliner.

The supercharger that came with the car is an Eaton M45 with a custom intake already fabricated, so somebody has at least had a go and realised that it's only going to make 1psi of boost. I've done the calculations and I'm now hunting for an M62. My power goal is around 180bhp - if I can get more then that's cool, but I think I'll be carb limited. Some wild arse estimation reckons that 7psi should probably net me relatively close to that? I guessed the diameter of the crank pulley for my calculations, but I'm hanging on to the m45 in case the nose and fixed pulleys I can get off the internet are advantageous...

Appreciate as much guidance or advice as you can give, this is my first Reliant! I've just joined the Scimitar owner's club so hoping I can nab a copy of the workshop manual from there.

A few things I'd love to know if you have an answer, as I've struggled searching:

- Is it possible to make a Cologne intake manifold fit on an Essex V6? A'la I expect some modification somewhere, but is it feasible? (my first thought is I could modify the shape of the inlet port on the Essex heads or on a spare set of Essex heads, but do the rest of the bits line up?)
- Have you got an M62 you'd be willing to let go for a song?
- Have you taken a Scimitar body off before? Any advice?


If I can get an EFI manifold setup working relatively inexpensively, then I will be first in line to stick a Megasquirt on, and a chinese turbo with electronic boost control Got a set of Cerbera injectors spare that would be ideal!

Pics to follow likely at the end of the week.

[BrettMRC]

In for the ride on this one!
Looking forward to the pics

For about 20 years I've been considering getting one and swapping the engine for a 13B rotary... one day!

[SlimJim16v]

I had a Wade RO34 on a V6, with a 600 Holly. The torque and throttle response was fantastic. I think it was about 7 - 10 psi, with lower compression and I would say easily 200+bhp.
A friend also had the smaller RO20 on a Scimitar, he kept breaking gearboxes.

While I love the sound of a screaming supercharger and the instant response, you can easily get 180+bhp just with heads and cam, manifolds and exhaust for more, carb/s for more.

[sortedcossie]

Years ago, I used to go to a quarterly local Sunday morning car meet. There was a chap who sometimes arrived in a dark grey one of these, with a lovely sounding V6.

Under the bonnet was quite a tuned Essex 3.0 - overbored, blueprinted, alternate cam, gas flowed heads, tubular manifolds/headers - and, triple Webers! I'm not sure what ignition was being used but I heard him chatting and it was well over 200bhp at the flywheel.

Supercharger sounds an interesting approach, look forward to seeing it take shape.

[sutoka]

Princess Anne had one of those

[TR4man]

sutoka said:

Princess Anne had one of those

Did she?

Seriously, looking forward to your updates and hopefully some photos too!

[Jhonno]

This thread needs pics!

[carinaman]

Aren't the bodies on these expensive to respray?

I suppose if they're that bad that a wrap be an option today?

[geordiepingu]

carinaman said:

Aren't the bodies on these expensive to respray?

I suppose if they're that bad that a wrap be an option today?

I won’t paint a customer’s car but I’ll paint my own. I am not a big fan of painting usually but I’m reasonably ok at it. It’s the repairs to the gel coat that cost really and replacing all of the rubbers when I refit the glass. The fact it’s fibreglass makes doing shutlines easier because they were always terrible - so not something I’ll pay too much attention to

[geordiepingu]

Doing some maths and thought about the supercharger pulley in a bit more detail. The Essex isn't exactly a high performance unit, and I'm concerned I may be going over the capability of a Weber 40 with an M62 @ 8psi.

A smaller pulley on the M45 might do the trick, I can get within the max RPM limits quite safely and get 8 psi on a really small pulley - which is 180-200bhp. Obviously the charge air will be hotter, but an intercooler would sort that.

I have a few more options in controlling boost with pulley size that way I think. I'm conscious I want a reasonable bump in power for not a lot of money, as I've already got a properly engineered fast toy.

Tell me if I'm over thinking it, I'm new to forced induction with carbs.

[acbluemarlin]

I am no expert either but have supercharged a 2CV a few years ago. I bought Alan Allards book which is a good buy if you can find it. My advice would be suck through the carb is easier than blow though because the carb isn’t pressurised. Don’t boost too much. If sucking through a side draught may well be easier and Allard used big SU’s a lot. If using an SU the minty lamb website is a great resource for playing around with needles. You will need some kind of boost/retard function for the ignition. I got lucky and got hold of a prototype ignition from the Dutch company 123 I could play with via Bluetooth from my phone.

[geordiepingu]

I did some research looking at the intake gaskets, and I’m not fitting a cologne manifold on there without extensive rework. So I’m either going to make a blow through carb setup work, or get my plasma cutter out and try making some manifold flanges for the Essex, with the view of making my own plenum out of spare offcuts of stainless I have. Bolt on a single throttle body out of some sort of v6 Ford or Mazda of the 90s/00s and stick some Rover V8 injectors on.

As for timing, my secret was going to be disconnect the vac advance and retard the timing on the dyno. If I use a Plex knock monitor I can tune it very close to what’s serviceable for the car. If I make a plenum and intake setup, then I’ll be using a Ford 6 cyl coil pack and hook it up to a standalone ECU.

Early days but the M45 looks like it’s usable in either case, just with a really small pulley and right up to it’s suggested RPM limits (which really means there’s a bit more to go…)

[geordiepingu]

Unfortunately I've been struggling for time so this is another one of those word vomit posts... Bear with...

This week I've managed to remove the seats and some of the interior, the seat belt mounts, radiator and front chassis plates. I had a go at cleaning the carb to see if I could remove the idle lean on the nearside bank, but the starter is too weak to get the engine to start at all.

I decided to have a go at sanding back some of the failed gel coat to see how bad it is. Summary is, not too bad Some signs the car has had paint before, not unexpected. Sports and cherished classics often see touch ups in their life. Given this car is 51 years old.... Helpful to see how bold the yellow is. I suspect it's Panama yellow? Reliant experts can correct me.





Unfortunately there's signs of poor (minor) accident repair, should've had more fibreglass to fix the shape of the arch. Not the end of the world to fix though



While you seemingly don't need to remove the seats to get the body off the chassis, it will make it lighter and is making disassembly of the front hinge access a lot easier.



Not sure I'll be using these speakers!


Unfortunately the bonnet has corroded steelwork inside, and I had to break the fibreglass to remove a no-longer-captive nut. Unsure whether to cut the bonnet open and replace all of the steel (and the light wiring), or to just source another bonnet. I suspect I'll have to do the former, given the implications of other 50 year old bonnets.



The sill reinforcement plate sort of fell out on me (what was left of it). Yet a peak at the rollbar through the cut b pillar looks ok?


Not sure what the chassis plates below the spare wheel mount are called, but they need to be re-made. They seem to collect water at the bottom and attach the ground points from the battery, so a bit unsurprised it's holed. The chassis members that mount it look ok, so I'm confident it's not too big of a can of worms.



And for TVR points... a TVR I've got for some tuning stuffs to do...


In more general supercharger musings, I am thinking of binning the idea. I've never driven a Scimitar (yet) so I'm unsure how good of a "meet your heroes" it will be. To make a supercharger work properly, I'd want to invest some reasonable cash to either get a proper blow-through carb or to setup EFI (more sensible). Blow-through with the current 40DFA would need more modification than I care to do. Draw through is not an option unless I change the supercharger (cost, not ideal), as M45/M62 seals aren't designed for petrol. The logic is, if I don't like the car, I should be able to sell it in excellent condition and let somebody enjoy it without ending up upside down. If I like the car, then the cost to do EFI with a turbo (more power and more efficiency) is identical to doing EFI with a supercharger (less power and less efficiency). In the meantime, I'll either make the 40DFA work or buy a 38DGAS for a later car, jet it up and try it as is. Perhaps I'll stick a mild cam in as I want to change the timing gear for an all alloy or steel one, rather than keep the part fibre one.

Costings for EFI include closed loop lambda control, for the ability to have great efficiency in a number of climates. I'd be making my own manifolds (intake and exhaust).

Edited by geordiepingu on Sunday 2nd October 21:18

[geordiepingu]

It's been a while, and so the major surgery begins, with the use of an angle grinder and an impact wrench. Most of the body bolts have been freed, and I cut a plate out of the front outriggers to take the body off easily. Just need to pop back to the workshop later this week and pull the handbrake cable off, unplug any electrics, disconnect the brake and clutch lines from the master cylinders. The throttle and choke cables are already removed. The vibration and hammering on the chassis caused quite a bit more corrosion to make itself known... I did get a couple of floor jacks and did a gentle test lift. All's looking good for getting the body off so far.

|https://thumbsnap.com/46poVL4k[/url]


Somebody before me sliced the bumper, which I discovered when taking it off. Drat. This means I now need to think about what to do... One route is new bumpers and rechrome or get stainless ones. The other route is a bit more leftfield, inspired by a couple of hillclimb cars. Cafe Racer No Chrome?

[url]

[geordiepingu]

The body is off, and the chassis repairs have begun. Cut, measure, draw etc... The next couple of weeks will be quite a lot of fabricating and welding. So far I've drawn up the outrigger sections and the rear body mounts (approx 8 sheets of A4). I just need to draw up a rear bumper bracket, the rear upper chassis section after the damper mountings, rear suspension pickups, and some tube repair sections (and bracing). A small brace repair needs to be made to the rear of the chassis where the diagonal channel joins to the tube, as it was excessively corroded. Miraculously, the inside of the chassis is spotless otherwise.

Edited by geordiepingu on Sunday 23 October 23:20

[geordiepingu]

More cutting, drawing, measuring, and this time, welding... To fully repair the weak points of the chassis, I've determined that I need to replace the tube that holds the trailing arm pickup points. Fortunately the pickups themselves are ok, just the tube that's knackered. I've welded together a "jig" out of a substantial amount of box section that locates the trailing arms and pickup points across the chassis and to the other pick up point. The next order of business will be to cut the tube out and replace it all the way from the chassis to the body mount / roll bar mount. I'll likely cut the tube flush to the chassis, and use an insert to weld the tube in place, that is just a bit longer than the width of the chassis rail.

The rotten fuel tank mounting area has been cut off, with datum measurements made to correctly line up and cut the components. The geometry of this section isn't as critical as the suspension as new holes will be drilled for the body mounting holes, so a jig hasn't been made.

Some Vactan has been painted on the areas of the chassis that I've been working on. It will protect where I've been working from further corrosion and subsequently I've found corrosion comes off much easier when shot blasting a component that's been treated with Vactan first.

The outriggers and sideriggers are completely removed

Edited by geordiepingu on Wednesday 26th October 09:35

[classicaholic]

Good luck with the project, I will be watching with interest & might even start restoring the scimitar I have - then again it might be just too much work!

[Jhonno]

Love it! In for this one! Any ways to stiffen the chassis whilst you are there with a welder.. Might help the driving experience!

[geordiepingu]

Engine oot, crossmembers oot, front suspension disassembled and the replacement bits needed now fully identified

Again, leaving bits coated in Vactan to make the shot blasting process easier, and protect the bits I'm working on. Wire wheel on the angle grinder is crucial to removing all the gunge off the bolts to get a socket on.

[anonymous-user]

Nice project ! Great to see a workshop as spotless and clinical as my own so good luck with it.
The old rod gearbox - ditch it. I’m about to fit a Type 9 five speed maintaining the original bellhousing for the hydraulic slave and arm etc and with an adaptor plate - I’ll give you details of the plate if you need it.
With a 40DFA, tubular manifolds, cam and half decent heads I get 167bhp at the wheels which is more than enough for fast use.