Parking Charge on Private land... another one... again
Discussion
I have received a PCN for an overstay in a private car park at a retail shopping park.
When I say “I” it’s on a car I lease but which is used by carers who look after my severely disabled estranged partner.
They had taken her to an out of town retail park to do some clothes shopping, she’s wheelchair bound and stuff just takes a long time, getting undressed, dressed etc.
They parked in a disabled bay and displayed a blue badge.
They visited two stores during this visit for a total of 2h and 19 min.
It turns out the maximum parking time allowed is 2hrs.
There is no question the vehicle was there and we are not disputing the facts.
The enforcer is Excel Parking Services Ltd, Sheffield.
We appealed via their on line system, jumped through every hoop they asked, provided details and copies of the Disabled badge, the driver, got an authority letter from the driver to allow them to discuss it with me. Appeal denied as there is no concession for disabled customers requiring longer.
We contacted the retailers in question, provided proof of purchases for the day, the retailers were extremely helpful and emailed Excel Parking to request they cancel the charge.
Excel parking responded to the retailer and asked for reason why it should be cancelled, which were provided by the retailer.
Excel will not inform the retailer or us of their decision, despite a number of attempts of contact through email and their on line form Excel simply won’t respond or acknowledge any communication.
We currently have no idea if this charge is being cancelled or not as they won’t communicate.
What now? Just pay the £100 so we stop legal issues?
Can I force these people to communicate somehow?
Any advice appreciated.
When I say “I” it’s on a car I lease but which is used by carers who look after my severely disabled estranged partner.
They had taken her to an out of town retail park to do some clothes shopping, she’s wheelchair bound and stuff just takes a long time, getting undressed, dressed etc.
They parked in a disabled bay and displayed a blue badge.
They visited two stores during this visit for a total of 2h and 19 min.
It turns out the maximum parking time allowed is 2hrs.
There is no question the vehicle was there and we are not disputing the facts.
The enforcer is Excel Parking Services Ltd, Sheffield.
We appealed via their on line system, jumped through every hoop they asked, provided details and copies of the Disabled badge, the driver, got an authority letter from the driver to allow them to discuss it with me. Appeal denied as there is no concession for disabled customers requiring longer.
We contacted the retailers in question, provided proof of purchases for the day, the retailers were extremely helpful and emailed Excel Parking to request they cancel the charge.
Excel parking responded to the retailer and asked for reason why it should be cancelled, which were provided by the retailer.
Excel will not inform the retailer or us of their decision, despite a number of attempts of contact through email and their on line form Excel simply won’t respond or acknowledge any communication.
We currently have no idea if this charge is being cancelled or not as they won’t communicate.
What now? Just pay the £100 so we stop legal issues?
Can I force these people to communicate somehow?
Any advice appreciated.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 12:04
21ATS said:
I have received a PCN for an overstay in a private car park at a retail shopping park.
When I say “I” it’s on a car I lease but which is used by carers who look after my severely disabled estranged partner.
They had taken her to an out of town retail park to do some clothes shopping, she’s wheelchair bound and stuff just takes a long time, getting undressed, dressed etc.
They parked in a disabled bay and displayed a blue badge.
They visited two stores during this visit for a total of 2h and 19 min.
It turns out the maximum parking time allowed is 2hrs.
There is no question the vehicle was there and we are not disputing the facts.
The enforcer is Excel Parking Services Ltd, Sheffield.
We appealed via their on line system, jumped through every hoop they asked, provided details and copies of the Disabled badge, the driver, got an authority letter from the driver to allow them to discuss it with me. Appeal denied as there is no concession for disabled customers requiring longer.
We contacted the retailers in question, provided proof of purchases for the day, the retailers were extremely helpful and emailed Excel Parking to request they cancel the charge.
Excel parking responded to the retailer and asked for reason why it should be cancelled, which were provided by the retailer.
Excel will not inform the retailer or us of their decision, despite a number of attempts of contact through email and their on line form Excel simply won’t respond or acknowledge any communication.
We currently have no idea if this charge is being cancelled or not as they won’t communicate.
What now? Just pay the £100 so we stop legal issues?
Can I force these people to communicate somehow?
Any advice appreciated.
Ignore their speculative invoice. Invite them to take you to court - they won't.]When I say “I” it’s on a car I lease but which is used by carers who look after my severely disabled estranged partner.
They had taken her to an out of town retail park to do some clothes shopping, she’s wheelchair bound and stuff just takes a long time, getting undressed, dressed etc.
They parked in a disabled bay and displayed a blue badge.
They visited two stores during this visit for a total of 2h and 19 min.
It turns out the maximum parking time allowed is 2hrs.
There is no question the vehicle was there and we are not disputing the facts.
The enforcer is Excel Parking Services Ltd, Sheffield.
We appealed via their on line system, jumped through every hoop they asked, provided details and copies of the Disabled badge, the driver, got an authority letter from the driver to allow them to discuss it with me. Appeal denied as there is no concession for disabled customers requiring longer.
We contacted the retailers in question, provided proof of purchases for the day, the retailers were extremely helpful and emailed Excel Parking to request they cancel the charge.
Excel parking responded to the retailer and asked for reason why it should be cancelled, which were provided by the retailer.
Excel will not inform the retailer or us of their decision, despite a number of attempts of contact through email and their on line form Excel simply won’t respond or acknowledge any communication.
We currently have no idea if this charge is being cancelled or not as they won’t communicate.
What now? Just pay the £100 so we stop legal issues?
Can I force these people to communicate somehow?
Any advice appreciated.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 12:04
If a lease car inform the lease company that it is in dispute and being appealed via official channels and that the charge is not to be settled by them under any circumstance.
kiethton said:
Ignore their speculative invoice. Invite them to take you to court - they won't.]
If a lease car inform the lease company that it is in dispute and being appealed via official channels and that the charge is not to be settled by them under any circumstance.
Lease company provided Excel with our details as the registered keeper. Charged us for doing so of course.If a lease car inform the lease company that it is in dispute and being appealed via official channels and that the charge is not to be settled by them under any circumstance.
My understanding is this will be passed to a debt collection agency?
I'm wary of ignoring these things due to the damage they can do to credit reports.
My understanding was that these things are legally enforceable these days? Is that not the case?
21ATS said:
kiethton said:
Ignore their speculative invoice. Invite them to take you to court - they won't.]
If a lease car inform the lease company that it is in dispute and being appealed via official channels and that the charge is not to be settled by them under any circumstance.
Lease company provided Excel with our details as the registered keeper. Charged us for doing so of course.If a lease car inform the lease company that it is in dispute and being appealed via official channels and that the charge is not to be settled by them under any circumstance.
My understanding is this will be passed to a debt collection agency?
I'm wary of ignoring these things due to the damage they can do to credit reports.
My understanding was that these things are legally enforceable these days? Is that not the case?
The "debt collection agency" is very often the same company using different headed paper.....
They're on a hiding to nothing under the disability discrimination act - alternative is pointing this out (as it sounds like you have done) but state in a formal letter (while including retailer requests for cancellation if you have them) that their stance is against the DDA, that any further contact will be deemed as harassment, invite them to commence court proceedings (they wont) but state that any further correspondence, court documents excepted, will remain unanswered. Then go about your day/life and ignore them.
The only advice I could give is:
As I understand it there are no concessions for disabled badged cars, whoever was driving.
You could write and say you are awaiting a response from the retailers (maybe some blarney about a special fitting?, or some episode at the retailers).
For what it’s worth, I got a parking fine from Parking Eye cancelled, when my wife fainted at the dentist during an attempted root extraction. I had a fully timed and annotated NHS Ambulance discharge form. I had to leave her car there overnight as the urgency meant I had to drive my car to bring her home, and I could not leave her unattended and collect her car until the next day.
If you are happy with, and want to keep your carer, it may be best to pay it for them, if it comes to a payment. Advise them that the conditions apply to them as well.
Good luck.
As I understand it there are no concessions for disabled badged cars, whoever was driving.
You could write and say you are awaiting a response from the retailers (maybe some blarney about a special fitting?, or some episode at the retailers).
For what it’s worth, I got a parking fine from Parking Eye cancelled, when my wife fainted at the dentist during an attempted root extraction. I had a fully timed and annotated NHS Ambulance discharge form. I had to leave her car there overnight as the urgency meant I had to drive my car to bring her home, and I could not leave her unattended and collect her car until the next day.
If you are happy with, and want to keep your carer, it may be best to pay it for them, if it comes to a payment. Advise them that the conditions apply to them as well.
Good luck.
Don't be intimidated by threats. As has been said, they need a judgment to do anything with your credit record (not everyone does) so don't worry about that. You might get a letter from a 'debt collector' in which case send a brief note explaining no debt is acknowledged and that any future correspondence will be reported as harassment. I think this is the only way to get the parking company to engage, unless you want to take the time to elevate the issue with the retailer. An indication you are thinking of getting the press interested out of desperation and frustration may concentrate their minds. There will be someone who can fix this - you just need to find them - but I'm not surprised the parking company are unhelpful as they're mostly run by goons.
I was issued a PCN for a car I lease. A lot hinges on not admitting you were the driver, or who the driver was.
I replied with the below (which was drafted for me by a helpful member on another forum) and they cancelled the PCN:
I am the hirer of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer.
There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.
I replied with the below (which was drafted for me by a helpful member on another forum) and they cancelled the PCN:
I am the hirer of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer.
There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.
I think nowadays the consensus is not to ignore, however I feel complied to respond to inform you that I did exactly that earlier this year. Partner was charged for going 12 minutes over in a McDonalds (she was catching up on some work, hence the longer than usual stay, but did buy several drinks) McDonalds powerless to help despite being a customer with proof, as they didn't own the land.
I'm a stubborn Nothern t
t so binned it, have had another two from the parking company and one from a 'debt' collection agent in the space of 6 months or so. Not heard anything for 7-8 weeks. I'm fairly intrigued to see how far they'll take it for the sake of £70, obviously if they initiate proceedings I'll be inclined to cough up. They can do it the hard way because I think they're nothing more than vultures.
I'll keep you posted!
I'm a stubborn Nothern t
t so binned it, have had another two from the parking company and one from a 'debt' collection agent in the space of 6 months or so. Not heard anything for 7-8 weeks. I'm fairly intrigued to see how far they'll take it for the sake of £70, obviously if they initiate proceedings I'll be inclined to cough up. They can do it the hard way because I think they're nothing more than vultures.I'll keep you posted!
Apart from Lidl, where I got 18 invoices, I've only received a few invoices other the years. A quick google shows which ones can safely be ignored as they are not litigious.
I would argue that Excel in not providing reasonable time for disabled folk falls under the Disability Discrimination Act and you would like to counter claim against them...
I would argue that Excel in not providing reasonable time for disabled folk falls under the Disability Discrimination Act and you would like to counter claim against them...
kiethton said:
They cant enforce against anything without a court judgement
The "debt collection agency" is very often the same company using different headed paper.....
They're on a hiding to nothing under the disability discrimination act - alternative is pointing this out (as it sounds like you have done) but state in a formal letter (while including retailer requests for cancellation if you have them) that their stance is against the DDA, that any further contact will be deemed as harassment, invite them to commence court proceedings (they wont) but state that any further correspondence, court documents excepted, will remain unanswered. Then go about your day/life and ignore them.
Not sure why you think it is discriminatory? Disabled bays have been provided and are subject to the same terms and conditions as the other spaces. That is not discriminatory in any way.The "debt collection agency" is very often the same company using different headed paper.....
They're on a hiding to nothing under the disability discrimination act - alternative is pointing this out (as it sounds like you have done) but state in a formal letter (while including retailer requests for cancellation if you have them) that their stance is against the DDA, that any further contact will be deemed as harassment, invite them to commence court proceedings (they wont) but state that any further correspondence, court documents excepted, will remain unanswered. Then go about your day/life and ignore them.
Jimmy No Hands said:
I think nowadays the consensus is not to ignore, however I feel complied to respond to inform you that I did exactly that earlier this year. Partner was charged for going 12 minutes over in a McDonalds (she was catching up on some work, hence the longer than usual stay, but did buy several drinks) McDonalds powerless to help despite being a customer with proof, as they didn't own the land.
I'm a stubborn Nothern tt so binned it, have had another two from the parking company and one from a 'debt' collection agent in the space of 6 months or so. Not heard anything for 7-8 weeks. I'm fairly intrigued to see how far they'll take it for the sake of £70, obviously if they initiate proceedings I'll be inclined to cough up. They can do it the hard way because I think they're nothing more than vultures.
I'll keep you posted!
The issue is they are known to sit on it for a few years and then apply for a CCJ. Hopefully by that time you have moved home, don't receive the paperwork, so don't contest.I'm a stubborn Nothern t
t so binned it, have had another two from the parking company and one from a 'debt' collection agent in the space of 6 months or so. Not heard anything for 7-8 weeks. I'm fairly intrigued to see how far they'll take it for the sake of £70, obviously if they initiate proceedings I'll be inclined to cough up. They can do it the hard way because I think they're nothing more than vultures.I'll keep you posted!
The first you learn of the CCJ is when you apply for credit/mortgage, at which point you can't pay the now escalated debt off quickly enough.
MustangGT said:
kiethton said:
They cant enforce against anything without a court judgement
The "debt collection agency" is very often the same company using different headed paper.....
They're on a hiding to nothing under the disability discrimination act - alternative is pointing this out (as it sounds like you have done) but state in a formal letter (while including retailer requests for cancellation if you have them) that their stance is against the DDA, that any further contact will be deemed as harassment, invite them to commence court proceedings (they wont) but state that any further correspondence, court documents excepted, will remain unanswered. Then go about your day/life and ignore them.
Not sure why you think it is discriminatory? Disabled bays have been provided and are subject to the same terms and conditions as the other spaces. That is not discriminatory in any way.The "debt collection agency" is very often the same company using different headed paper.....
They're on a hiding to nothing under the disability discrimination act - alternative is pointing this out (as it sounds like you have done) but state in a formal letter (while including retailer requests for cancellation if you have them) that their stance is against the DDA, that any further contact will be deemed as harassment, invite them to commence court proceedings (they wont) but state that any further correspondence, court documents excepted, will remain unanswered. Then go about your day/life and ignore them.
In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 14:36
21ATS said:
From a bit of googling I've determined that it's "normal" practice to extend alotted times for disabled users.
In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
My mother has a blue badge, I have a copy of the BPA Code of Practice. Unfortunately it does not cover extension of grace period to blue badge holders in there, not that I can find anyway. The grace period of 10 minutes appears to apply to all, with the exception of vehicles parked in a disabled bay incorrectly, who get nothing. Some car park operators appear to extend, others don't. Similarly to charging, some allow free parking for blue badges, others don't.In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 14:36
MustangGT said:
21ATS said:
From a bit of googling I've determined that it's "normal" practice to extend alotted times for disabled users.
In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
My mother has a blue badge, I have a copy of the BPA Code of Practice. Unfortunately it does not cover extension of grace period to blue badge holders in there, not that I can find anyway. The grace period of 10 minutes appears to apply to all, with the exception of vehicles parked in a disabled bay incorrectly, who get nothing. Some car park operators appear to extend, others don't. Similarly to charging, some allow free parking for blue badges, others don't.In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 14:36
Wackywoo105 said:
The issue is they are known to sit on it for a few years and then apply for a CCJ. Hopefully by that time you have moved home, don't receive the paperwork, so don't contest.
The first you learn of the CCJ is when you apply for credit/mortgage, at which point you can't pay the now escalated debt off quickly enough.
You are of course correct, however I assume me missing every single piece of correspondence up until that stage is probably unlikely, but I assume it could catch some out. Hence my advice overall to not ignore.The first you learn of the CCJ is when you apply for credit/mortgage, at which point you can't pay the now escalated debt off quickly enough.
kiethton said:
MustangGT said:
21ATS said:
From a bit of googling I've determined that it's "normal" practice to extend alotted times for disabled users.
In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
My mother has a blue badge, I have a copy of the BPA Code of Practice. Unfortunately it does not cover extension of grace period to blue badge holders in there, not that I can find anyway. The grace period of 10 minutes appears to apply to all, with the exception of vehicles parked in a disabled bay incorrectly, who get nothing. Some car park operators appear to extend, others don't. Similarly to charging, some allow free parking for blue badges, others don't.In fact it's in the code of practice of the British Parking Association that Blue Badge Holders are not PCN'd for overstays.
I'll update this thread as and when events occur.
Edited by 21ATS on Friday 23 September 14:36
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