BTL Landlords exiting - what are you going to do next?
Discussion
To the BTL landlords leaving the sector / throwing in the towel, what are you going to do with the money when you sell up?
Pay substantial CGT presumably, but what then......the money needs investing somewhere but what? If you are going to spend it / give it away then fair enough.
Personally, it has never really crossed my mind to sell up, it was always long term and an income for 'retirement' and something for my kids, particularly my eldest who will never be able to work due to a disability, to have some security. My sentiment may now be changing. On the other hand, this is obviously what they want, and with the haters, that does make me more determined to stick with it.
I am not particularly bothered about it being unfashionable to be a landlord, being called a leech or to be hated as these are mostly the views of left wing divs who know nothing about the individual circumstances. I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
What does concern me are things like rent controls as implemented recently by the Scottish Government - that is a game changer, abolishing of S21 etc. If labour get in at the next election then it is certain death for private landlords and with the government making such a balls of things recently - it is looking increasingly like a possibility.
So - landlords have a couple of years to prepare for things to get even worse. What you going to do?
Pay substantial CGT presumably, but what then......the money needs investing somewhere but what? If you are going to spend it / give it away then fair enough.
Personally, it has never really crossed my mind to sell up, it was always long term and an income for 'retirement' and something for my kids, particularly my eldest who will never be able to work due to a disability, to have some security. My sentiment may now be changing. On the other hand, this is obviously what they want, and with the haters, that does make me more determined to stick with it.
I am not particularly bothered about it being unfashionable to be a landlord, being called a leech or to be hated as these are mostly the views of left wing divs who know nothing about the individual circumstances. I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
What does concern me are things like rent controls as implemented recently by the Scottish Government - that is a game changer, abolishing of S21 etc. If labour get in at the next election then it is certain death for private landlords and with the government making such a balls of things recently - it is looking increasingly like a possibility.
So - landlords have a couple of years to prepare for things to get even worse. What you going to do?
PurpleFox said:
I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
Quoted for posterity.Running decent properties and having decent tenants means nothing. If you've had any dealings with LAs over property licensing or been through the court system you'll appreciate that you could be the best landlord in the world, with the best properties, and you'll still have a bad time.
PurpleFox said:
So - landlords have a couple of years to prepare for things to get even worse. What you going to do?
Manufacture of rose-tinted spectacles.I got into BTL in 2010 and added quite a few in 2018-2020.
I am almost entirely positive on the experience. I think I have been fair with tenants, not pushing rent too hard and I’ve fixed everything that’s ever been asked immediately with no push back.
From my side the rents have been good with good demand and not a lot of hassle apart from 1-2 emails per week from the managing agents.
That said, in the last few months I am starting to have doubts creep in. The market feels a little bit more challenging and house prices are very toppy. We might be at the end of a boom in prices. The general economic environment is obviously extremely rocky and I can see a situation of falling capital values, rents and bad tenants. The lefties are foaming at the mouth to bring down the rich, and governments are extremely unpredictable.
My wife and I have 4 residencies/citizenships between us and I am tempted to diversify away from the UK a little, maybe with property or maybe just investing in a different currency and government regime. If I was to stay in the UK I would probably trickle into stocks and world trackers.
I am almost entirely positive on the experience. I think I have been fair with tenants, not pushing rent too hard and I’ve fixed everything that’s ever been asked immediately with no push back.
From my side the rents have been good with good demand and not a lot of hassle apart from 1-2 emails per week from the managing agents.
That said, in the last few months I am starting to have doubts creep in. The market feels a little bit more challenging and house prices are very toppy. We might be at the end of a boom in prices. The general economic environment is obviously extremely rocky and I can see a situation of falling capital values, rents and bad tenants. The lefties are foaming at the mouth to bring down the rich, and governments are extremely unpredictable.
My wife and I have 4 residencies/citizenships between us and I am tempted to diversify away from the UK a little, maybe with property or maybe just investing in a different currency and government regime. If I was to stay in the UK I would probably trickle into stocks and world trackers.
Louis Balfour said:
PurpleFox said:
I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
Quoted for posterity.Running decent properties and having decent tenants means nothing. If you've had any dealings with LAs over property licensing or been through the court system you'll appreciate that you could be the best landlord in the world, with the best properties, and you'll still have a bad time.
I don't intend to sell up any time soon. BTLs are a good part of a diversified portfolio, the quality of tenants on the market seems to have improved greatly (possibly due to some Landlords selling up) and revenue yields are approx 6% on average (capital values went up ridiculous amounts during the lockdown).
Countdown said:
Louis Balfour said:
PurpleFox said:
I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
Quoted for posterity.Running decent properties and having decent tenants means nothing. If you've had any dealings with LAs over property licensing or been through the court system you'll appreciate that you could be the best landlord in the world, with the best properties, and you'll still have a bad time.
I don't intend to sell up any time soon. BTLs are a good part of a diversified portfolio, the quality of tenants on the market seems to have improved greatly (possibly due to some Landlords selling up) and revenue yields are approx 6% on average (capital values went up ridiculous amounts during the lockdown).
Wrong turn of phrase to say I wasn't bothered by certain types of legislation, probably should have said not as bothered.
Nice to hear that not everyone is selling up. Transferring to stocks and shares is unlikely the answer as it is still 'unearned income' which is on the political radar, albiet with less background noise.
Countdown said:
Louis Balfour said:
PurpleFox said:
I am also not bothered by the introduction of new regulations which generally improve conditions for tenants, landlord registration and energy improvements for example. They will have little effect for me as my properties are in decent order, I am a decent landlord and I have great tenants.
Quoted for posterity.Running decent properties and having decent tenants means nothing. If you've had any dealings with LAs over property licensing or been through the court system you'll appreciate that you could be the best landlord in the world, with the best properties, and you'll still have a bad time.
I don't intend to sell up any time soon. BTLs are a good part of a diversified portfolio, the quality of tenants on the market seems to have improved greatly (possibly due to some Landlords selling up) and revenue yields are approx 6% on average (capital values went up ridiculous amounts during the lockdown).
PurpleFox said:
What does concern me are things like rent controls as implemented recently by the Scottish Government - that is a game changer, abolishing of S21 etc. If labour get in at the next election then it is certain death for private landlords and with the government making such a balls of things recently - it is looking increasingly like a possibility.
Just so we're entirely clear, you understand it was Gove in the Conservative government who was pushing-through the abolition of S.21, whilst Scottish rent controls are promulgated by an SNP Government, not a Labour one?I'm not saying Labour won't make some changes. But not for the first time I'm confused by the conflation of Tory and SNP policies with Labour.
All parties, to some extent or another, follow the lead set by the public in these matters. The public are clearly unhappy with landlords. Politics dictates that some changes will happen in those circumstances.
Letting noob here just had my first tenants move in over weekend... this is certainly a trial for me as moved house at the end of the summer so was in two minds on whether to sell my old apartment or give the letting gig a try. Will see how it goes for 12 months although it appears that it is getting harder for private landlords. My tenants look good on paper so I'm hoping for a hassle free experience!
skwdenyer said:
Just so we're entirely clear, you understand it was Gove in the Conservative government who was pushing-through the abolition of S.21, whilst Scottish rent controls are promulgated by an SNP Government, not a Labour one?
I'm not saying Labour won't make some changes. But not for the first time I'm confused by the conflation of Tory and SNP policies with Labour.
All parties, to some extent or another, follow the lead set by the public in these matters. The public are clearly unhappy with landlords. Politics dictates that some changes will happen in those circumstances.
I wasn't (intentionally) blaming Labour for S.21, nor for the rent controls in Scotland. The Conservatives have made things tougher for landlords and I think Labour will make things even tougher. The SNP decision to ban rent increases and evictions with immediate effect surprised me that a government could intervene the way they did, it's a wake up call for me at least. I'm not saying Labour won't make some changes. But not for the first time I'm confused by the conflation of Tory and SNP policies with Labour.
All parties, to some extent or another, follow the lead set by the public in these matters. The public are clearly unhappy with landlords. Politics dictates that some changes will happen in those circumstances.
I am not looking for sympathy either - there is no violin small enough for the haters, just wondering what other people are intending to do as everywhere I look LL's are selling up.
I dunno if I have just been lucky but the rental market has been very buoyant lately, I've let out 2 properties recently for well above the asking price with people offering to pay 6m or a year upfront.
On the other hand I had to boot out a non-paying tenant from one of those properties, but it's looking pretty rosy going forward in terms of rental yield so I'll be sticking with it.
On the other hand I had to boot out a non-paying tenant from one of those properties, but it's looking pretty rosy going forward in terms of rental yield so I'll be sticking with it.
All seems ok with our small portfolio. We've increased rents by 10% this year and all the long term tenants seem happy enough. Any mortgages that are left are small and most have years until the fixed rate is up for renewal. The earliest being 2025. No plans to exit as it was always a very long term strategy.
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Running decent properties and having decent tenants means nothing. If you've had any dealings with LAs over property licensing or been through the court system you'll appreciate that you could be the best landlord in the world, with the best properties, and you'll still have a bad time.
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I agree. Our LA is hopeless. The way they run HMO licensing is a disgrace and is the single largest thing making me consider exit options
andyxxx said:
What's getting me at the moment is the re-banding of HMO's into separate flats where a room is self contained with it's own kitchen and bathroom for example. You speak to the housing department and it's a HMO and they want a substantial fee for a license, you speak to the revenues department and they consider it 4 separate dwellings for council tax......surely they are mutually exclusive!
PurpleFox said:
What's the issue? I have a few licensed HMO's and whilst I don't particularly rate my local council I try to keep them onside.....they come out and do inspections from time to time and make stupid demands that they are not qualified to make judgments on but I just tow the line for an easy life and make the changes they ask for. The costs for the license is ridiculous though.
I have had several issues on all my HMOs hence I have sold some and will continue to do so.They were all renovated to a high standard 12 to 15 years ago with involvement of environmental housing from day one.
Over the years they have all had four or five inspections and on each one a different officer demands changes or extra work (despite the fact the regulations/standards are largely unchanged)
I constantly point out that this can’t be correct as a property either meets standards or it doesn’t. If they are demanding extra work on each visit, the previous officers have not done their job correctly and the previous fees should be refunded (but of course this does not happen)
As you say the fees are too high. The re- licensing fee should be virtually nothing.
I feel as if they are working against us (the landlords) where in fact they are being paid by us and should be working with us ultimately for the benefit of the tenant.
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