Low Traffic Neighbourhoods based on wrong data
Discussion
As if we didn't know.
Dept for Transport has admitted that the figures on traffic usage on minor roads which was used to justify the setting up of low-traffic neighbourhoods were incorrect. Significantly so.
The numbers on minor roads between 2009 and 2019 were significantly overcounted. In London where rises of 60% on minor roads and 72% on the smallest roads were cited as justifying the LTNs it has turned out that over the decade there had been no increase.
Across the nation an increase in miles travelled on minor roads had been reported as 26%, turns out to have been less than 10%.
Clowns, utter clowns.
link
Dept for Transport has admitted that the figures on traffic usage on minor roads which was used to justify the setting up of low-traffic neighbourhoods were incorrect. Significantly so.
The numbers on minor roads between 2009 and 2019 were significantly overcounted. In London where rises of 60% on minor roads and 72% on the smallest roads were cited as justifying the LTNs it has turned out that over the decade there had been no increase.
Across the nation an increase in miles travelled on minor roads had been reported as 26%, turns out to have been less than 10%.
Clowns, utter clowns.
link
Wouldn’t it be a bit daft though to rip them all out on the basis of wrong, or wrongly interpreted data, given the positives that LTNs have generated? It’s a bit like….
I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
pablo said:
Wouldn’t it be a bit daft though to rip them all out on the basis of wrong, or wrongly interpreted data, given the positives that LTNs have generated?
I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
Apologies for the edited quote.I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
Shouldn't you have written that the positives AND negatives need to be reviewed, including the proven negatives not just on the specific streets involved but on the wider network and impact on such as emergency services access. Which also opens up the issue of potential positives on other areas now impacted adversely by the presence of the LTNs That's the correct approach surely.
Being cynical, it does open the question whether such an assessment can be done fairly and objectively.
It would be interesting to know how this gross error in the data came about. I'm a general believer that simple cock ups are more frequent than out and out conspiracy. Sometimes one does begin to wonder about manipulation / interpretation / assumptions made in order to get the 'correct' result.
FiF said:
pablo said:
Wouldn’t it be a bit daft though to rip them all out on the basis of wrong, or wrongly interpreted data, given the positives that LTNs have generated?
I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
Apologies for the edited quote.I get that if the data wasn’t right, the justification for the LTN is flawed but it would be worth looking at the benefits before an immediate u-turn
Shouldn't you have written that the positives AND negatives need to be reviewed, including the proven negatives not just on the specific streets involved but on the wider network and impact on such as emergency services access. Which also opens up the issue of potential positives on other areas now impacted adversely by the presence of the LTNs That's the correct approach surely.
Being cynical, it does open the question whether such an assessment can be done fairly and objectively.
It would be interesting to know how this gross error in the data came about. I'm a general believer that simple cock ups are more frequent than out and out conspiracy. Sometimes one does begin to wonder about manipulation / interpretation / assumptions made in order to get the 'correct' result.
swisstoni said:
If the ambulance or fire engine is stuck on the High St instead of getting to you, you might not think that.
Did you choose where you live based on emergency service response times?If you look at new residential developments you will see that they are designed to not allow through traffic. No one looks at them and complains that they can't cut through, or that an ambulance might take a bit longer, people just see it as a quiet residential estate.
Previously bad road design has encouraged through traffic onto residential streets, which is faster moving, noisier and more dangerous than typical residential traffic. Blocking the road to through traffic gets rid of the problem without sticking expensive monitoring infrastructure in.
If you like your short cuts and rat runs you are in for a disappointing future, as they are being designed away.
Previous experience shows us that making access only orders on roads used as short cuts / ratruns are just not effective. Even when there is a police response to a consultation effectively saying this order is unenforceable or lack of available resources will mean this is such a low priority that it won't be enforced councils still go ahead. They know the only way to stop through traffic is to physically make the road no through way, or possibly one way in the wrong direction to discourage ratrunners but that the locals will complain because it makes their life slightly less convenient.
However there is a difference between dealing with a single road used as a short cut and what's been going on in parts of the nation particularly London.
However there is a difference between dealing with a single road used as a short cut and what's been going on in parts of the nation particularly London.
The locals and commuters will complain. The people who live on those roads won't. It's a sticking plaster over bad road design as there shouldn't be a need for through traffic to move through a housing estate.
The short cuts are worse for traffic flow overall, as people will rejoin a main road interrupting traffic. It's similar to turning left at a roundabout using the right hand lane and going round. By doing so you are interrupting traffic at every junction, where it wouldn't be interrupted if the left lane is used.
I agree that some of it is crap and poorly planned out. Same as the crap excuse for cycle lanes which are put in.
The short cuts are worse for traffic flow overall, as people will rejoin a main road interrupting traffic. It's similar to turning left at a roundabout using the right hand lane and going round. By doing so you are interrupting traffic at every junction, where it wouldn't be interrupted if the left lane is used.
I agree that some of it is crap and poorly planned out. Same as the crap excuse for cycle lanes which are put in.
Donbot said:
The locals and commuters will complain. The people who live on those roads won't. It's a sticking plaster over bad road design as there shouldn't be a need for through traffic to move through a housing estate.
The short cuts are worse for traffic flow overall, as people will rejoin a main road interrupting traffic. It's similar to turning left at a roundabout using the right hand lane and going round. By doing so you are interrupting traffic at every junction, where it wouldn't be interrupted if the left lane is used.
I agree that some of it is crap and poorly planned out. Same as the crap excuse for cycle lanes which are put in.
Actually in the case I'm thinking about it was the people who lived on the road in question who refused the option to have it made no through or one way but 'wrong way'. Insisted on no access even though warned it wouldn't be effective.The short cuts are worse for traffic flow overall, as people will rejoin a main road interrupting traffic. It's similar to turning left at a roundabout using the right hand lane and going round. By doing so you are interrupting traffic at every junction, where it wouldn't be interrupted if the left lane is used.
I agree that some of it is crap and poorly planned out. Same as the crap excuse for cycle lanes which are put in.
The road was made subject to an access only order, and as warned no real enforcement took place, result they and councillors complained to the police.
The point I'm making is that the residents wanted to improve their situation, which is fair enough, but were not willing to compromise on the slightest inconvenience to themselves.
My London borough introduced LTNs a couple years ago. Fantastically unpopular and caused all manner of complaints. After several months of experiencing the totally predictable unintended consequences the council responded to the complaints of locals and other bodies (I suspect the complaints from commuters and business road users would be almost impossible to measure or register so assume scant thought was put to their experiences) and removed them all. Naturally the reduced limits and various speed bumps and whatnot remain.
Never mind. Other peoples’ money and all that.
They’ve since moved on to totally f
king up the borough with wholesale and no doubt hugely expensive changes to parking restrictions.
Never mind. Other peoples’ money and all that.
They’ve since moved on to totally f
king up the borough with wholesale and no doubt hugely expensive changes to parking restrictions. Im in London and all I can say is the councillors are absolute idiots. This is exactly the type of scheme they like and jumped all over it with the covid excuse. Now that’s gone and we’ve still got fked up roads for no purpose, and it doesn’t make any difference I just have to drive up the parallel road so those poor fkers get more traffic instead.
ked up roads for no purpose, and it doesn’t make any difference I just have to drive up the parallel road so those poor fkers get more traffic instead.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff