Elise S1 vs S2 vs VX220 vs VX220 Turbo
Discussion
Hi all
I'm looking at these 4 cars:
Elise S1
Elise S2
VX220
VX220 Turbo
Looking for insight in to which is best?
A usable boot is appealing so its usable for weekends away, otherwise I'm looking for a pure driving machine.
Ideally I'd like an NA as I don't like the unpredictability of a Turbo but including it as I have heard its very progressive.
I'm looking at these 4 cars:
Elise S1
Elise S2
VX220
VX220 Turbo
Looking for insight in to which is best?
A usable boot is appealing so its usable for weekends away, otherwise I'm looking for a pure driving machine.
Ideally I'd like an NA as I don't like the unpredictability of a Turbo but including it as I have heard its very progressive.
I don’t think you can go wrong with any of them if you like driving. I have never driven an S1 so I can’t comment on those. I had VX220T years ago. I loved the car it felt like a rocket ship to me at the time. I did test drive a 2.2 but I thought it was slow I was a bit of a boy racer in a civic type r at the time though! I like how the VX looks and they are quite a rare car nowadays (because of people like me crashing them!) Power delivery could be a bit snappy and it’s a heavy lump in the back.
The S2 comes with lots of different engines/ power outputs I aren’t 100% sure but roughly I think from a 120bhp rover engine to a 220bhp supercharged Toyota engine. Again I think the Rover cars didbt have abs but Toyota did.
I had a 2005 Elise 111R for about 4 years and loved that car. It was a perfect road car the 190bhp Toyota engine loved to rev and was useable on the road.
Running costs are peanuts although entry price is high now.
I have an S3 Exige now I do love it but I honestly think I’d of been better off in an Elise as a road car.
As for boot space as the boot goes inside the clam it’s surprisingly big and if you pack soft bags you can get quite a bit in I’d imagine. But this is something I have never paid much attention to so can’t help much. Suppose it depends on how much stuff you need.
The S2 comes with lots of different engines/ power outputs I aren’t 100% sure but roughly I think from a 120bhp rover engine to a 220bhp supercharged Toyota engine. Again I think the Rover cars didbt have abs but Toyota did.
I had a 2005 Elise 111R for about 4 years and loved that car. It was a perfect road car the 190bhp Toyota engine loved to rev and was useable on the road.
Running costs are peanuts although entry price is high now.
I have an S3 Exige now I do love it but I honestly think I’d of been better off in an Elise as a road car.
As for boot space as the boot goes inside the clam it’s surprisingly big and if you pack soft bags you can get quite a bit in I’d imagine. But this is something I have never paid much attention to so can’t help much. Suppose it depends on how much stuff you need.
Edited by keo on Wednesday 5th October 13:25
I had both an NA and T VX220. I didnt own them back to back for a close comparison but each has their advantages. Both were close to standard.
The NA felt harsher to ride in, standard suspension felt like it didnt soak up British roads as well as the T did. The T is significantly quicker flat out, I wouldn't say there was much in it between the two in the twisties even with a turbo and weight differences. Neither felt like they were going to suddenly throw me into a ditch, the turbo wasn't a massive surge it felt controllable. I think if you test drove both you would miss the power in the NA. The supercharged option is there for the NA of course, make sure you like the loud whine because its inches behind your head! Also many conversions are done by a couple of chaps on the forum, that's not to say in anyway they are cowboys or anything, they know their stuff, but bear that in mind.
I haven't owned an Elise, from what owners say they are a bit more focused than the Vauxhall, lighter etc. What that doesn't mean however is that the Vauxhall is going to handle like a boat! Its a sharp and well engineered machine that will be a fantastic epic drive. If you can get ones which have had the rear toe links done, the blower upgraded to a T5 heater, mounts and other perishables done you will save yourself a fair wedge in maintenance.
Also, dont worry too much about things like number of previous owners, these cars change hands almost yearly its not an indication that the car has an underlying problem being passed on.
The NA felt harsher to ride in, standard suspension felt like it didnt soak up British roads as well as the T did. The T is significantly quicker flat out, I wouldn't say there was much in it between the two in the twisties even with a turbo and weight differences. Neither felt like they were going to suddenly throw me into a ditch, the turbo wasn't a massive surge it felt controllable. I think if you test drove both you would miss the power in the NA. The supercharged option is there for the NA of course, make sure you like the loud whine because its inches behind your head! Also many conversions are done by a couple of chaps on the forum, that's not to say in anyway they are cowboys or anything, they know their stuff, but bear that in mind.
I haven't owned an Elise, from what owners say they are a bit more focused than the Vauxhall, lighter etc. What that doesn't mean however is that the Vauxhall is going to handle like a boat! Its a sharp and well engineered machine that will be a fantastic epic drive. If you can get ones which have had the rear toe links done, the blower upgraded to a T5 heater, mounts and other perishables done you will save yourself a fair wedge in maintenance.
Also, dont worry too much about things like number of previous owners, these cars change hands almost yearly its not an indication that the car has an underlying problem being passed on.
I've drove an s1 for about a month before I bought a vx220 2.2 and I really liked the vx220 more, engine seemed alot more torquey in comparison. But I did feel like I wanted more power with a year or so of driving it under my belt. I would have bought a supercharged 2.2 if funds had allowed, the 2.2 is plenty fast with 140bhp so one with 250+ must be a real handful.
Worth noting that the 2.2 comes with a race logic computer for gauges that arent on the 2.0T cars.
Worth noting that the 2.2 comes with a race logic computer for gauges that arent on the 2.0T cars.
Ive had a NA VX220 driven afew turbo's & now own a Elise 111r
The VX is a great car but to me ket down by the engines, the 2.2 is boring and not exactly high powered, the turbo for me dosnt suit a sports car loads of low down power but no point reving it out.
The 111r on the other hand i think is a fantastic engine for the Elise you have to drive it properly for it to perform & you will never not enjoy the cam change and chasing the 8,500rpm limiter.
Also worth noting the VX prices have gone up a fair amount in the last 5+ years, my NA was 7k for a decent car & the Elise was 18k at the same time, there isnt such a differnce in price anymore so it makes the VX even less attractive IMO.
The VX is a great car but to me ket down by the engines, the 2.2 is boring and not exactly high powered, the turbo for me dosnt suit a sports car loads of low down power but no point reving it out.
The 111r on the other hand i think is a fantastic engine for the Elise you have to drive it properly for it to perform & you will never not enjoy the cam change and chasing the 8,500rpm limiter.
Also worth noting the VX prices have gone up a fair amount in the last 5+ years, my NA was 7k for a decent car & the Elise was 18k at the same time, there isnt such a differnce in price anymore so it makes the VX even less attractive IMO.
Decky_Q said:
I've drove an s1 for about a month before I bought a vx220 2.2 and I really liked the vx220 more, engine seemed alot more torquey in comparison. But I did feel like I wanted more power with a year or so of driving it under my belt. I would have bought a supercharged 2.2 if funds had allowed, the 2.2 is plenty fast with 140bhp so one with 250+ must be a real handful.
Worth noting that the 2.2 comes with a race logic computer for gauges that arent on the 2.0T cars.
Race Logic? I presume you mean the aftermarket install? NA came with a standard Stack dash which looks to all intents and purposes the same as the turbo in terms of showing standard stuff like fuel, revs, speed etc. Worth noting that the 2.2 comes with a race logic computer for gauges that arent on the 2.0T cars.
TheAlastair34 said:
Ive had a NA VX220 driven afew turbo's & now own a Elise 111r
The VX is a great car but to me ket down by the engines, the 2.2 is boring and not exactly high powered, the turbo for me dosnt suit a sports car loads of low down power but no point reving it out.
The 111r on the other hand i think is a fantastic engine for the Elise you have to drive it properly for it to perform & you will never not enjoy the cam change and chasing the 8,500rpm limiter.
Also worth noting the VX prices have gone up a fair amount in the last 5+ years, my NA was 7k for a decent car & the Elise was 18k at the same time, there isnt such a differnce in price anymore so it makes the VX even less attractive IMO.
I think the 111r is the perfect option, sticks with the NA ethos lightweight sports car. Last time I looked though these were substantially more expensive than VX220 turbos which is why I got one. Actually a quick look on ebay and the cheapest vx220t is 15k vs the cheapest 111r at 24k, so there is a huge difference in price still. The VX is a great car but to me ket down by the engines, the 2.2 is boring and not exactly high powered, the turbo for me dosnt suit a sports car loads of low down power but no point reving it out.
The 111r on the other hand i think is a fantastic engine for the Elise you have to drive it properly for it to perform & you will never not enjoy the cam change and chasing the 8,500rpm limiter.
Also worth noting the VX prices have gone up a fair amount in the last 5+ years, my NA was 7k for a decent car & the Elise was 18k at the same time, there isnt such a differnce in price anymore so it makes the VX even less attractive IMO.
Prices listed online are what they are, but especially right now with the weather turning, anyone wanting to sell will most likely be receptive to an offer.
Also I wouldn't worry about too much about the engine performance on the turbo, a remap can push the power top end out towards the redline but to be honest unless you are on a track or trying a 1/4 mile run you wont have your foot to the floor revving it out on public roads too often it is brutally fast and tonnes of torque at the lower end of the range to keep you hustling along.
It does depend on the budget (you havent mentioned this) as I would say the 111r is probably the better driving machine, but the VX220 turbo for the money gives more smiles per £ given its significantly lower cost.
Also I wouldn't worry about too much about the engine performance on the turbo, a remap can push the power top end out towards the redline but to be honest unless you are on a track or trying a 1/4 mile run you wont have your foot to the floor revving it out on public roads too often it is brutally fast and tonnes of torque at the lower end of the range to keep you hustling along.
It does depend on the budget (you havent mentioned this) as I would say the 111r is probably the better driving machine, but the VX220 turbo for the money gives more smiles per £ given its significantly lower cost.
As an S1 owner for a slightly petrifyingly long 23 years, with about 40k miles use in that time, I would say that they are excellent, but feel quite underpowered by modern standards ( mine has 160 bhp, but is still no ball of fire ).
The weird thing is, although it seems underpowered, it is very exciting ( in a good way) and once you get going it shows quite impressive turn of speed because there is so much grip.
I don’t personally think that a low mileage example would be any better than one with more miles, modifications would not scare me off, and a suspension refresh at some point in its recent life is utterly essential. They are quite tough, don’t rag it until the oil is warm or the HGF jury will be wagging their fingers at you.
The radios are useless, the cars generally sound like a cutlery drawer, just wear earplugs all the time and you will find the whole experience a million times more fun and much less stressful
I suspect I will never sell it as I love it so much!
The weird thing is, although it seems underpowered, it is very exciting ( in a good way) and once you get going it shows quite impressive turn of speed because there is so much grip.
I don’t personally think that a low mileage example would be any better than one with more miles, modifications would not scare me off, and a suspension refresh at some point in its recent life is utterly essential. They are quite tough, don’t rag it until the oil is warm or the HGF jury will be wagging their fingers at you.
The radios are useless, the cars generally sound like a cutlery drawer, just wear earplugs all the time and you will find the whole experience a million times more fun and much less stressful
I suspect I will never sell it as I love it so much!
Choices!
- 30k miles, 2 years daily drive NA 2-2. Drives great, feels fast but a little slow tbh
- 40k miles in 10 years in a VXR220 with ohlins - awesome, remap and good to go
- Had a 111R for 2 months - feels lighter than the VX's, but toyota lump is lacking any torque for a daily/road, be good on track
- Currently weekender (atom) has the supercharged honda K20 - looove the supercharger, loads of torque, power, revs forever and sounds angry
Ive thought about swapping for something a little more sensible! It would prob be for an exige, either a S1 K20 supercharged or newer supercharged V6 so IMO supercharger wins is a small lightweight car
- 30k miles, 2 years daily drive NA 2-2. Drives great, feels fast but a little slow tbh
- 40k miles in 10 years in a VXR220 with ohlins - awesome, remap and good to go
- Had a 111R for 2 months - feels lighter than the VX's, but toyota lump is lacking any torque for a daily/road, be good on track
- Currently weekender (atom) has the supercharged honda K20 - looove the supercharger, loads of torque, power, revs forever and sounds angry
Ive thought about swapping for something a little more sensible! It would prob be for an exige, either a S1 K20 supercharged or newer supercharged V6 so IMO supercharger wins is a small lightweight car
Edited by cheeky_chops on Thursday 6th October 18:31
TheAlastair34 said:
@ 15K i would be a supercharged VX220
decent ones pop up below that price bracket
I was hoping so as was hoping to do the exact same as the OP 111R, 111S or VX220. decent ones pop up below that price bracket
I've seen scrolling and scrubbing the classifieds for a while. Last SC one i saw was mid September i think, and it did go for nigh on bang on £15k. However, right now i have noticed the prices starting to creep up.
Right now £15k-£17k seems to buy you a standard 2.2 N/A with decent mileage and nothing much else to it. £17k-18k for a decent Turbo. Supercharged ones are much rarer by far so i'm expecting the next one to come up to be in the same kind of region as £17-20k.
There are cheaper ones to be had but all hover in that bracket and some are quite tired and dog eared.
But don't get me wrong, i think for what you get that is still "good" money in todays market.
I had an S3 Exige which used as a daily driver a couple of years ago, it was the soft top which turned out to be a blessing as it made it much easier to get into and out of. If you haven’t tried this particular exercise then I would strongly suggest you give it a go.
Through the summer it was brilliant but come the winter it was pretty dreadful. The lights were crap, you sit low so that almost all oncoming traffic dazzles you, and the practicality of getting in and out does become a chore.
All of this is easy to live with if it isn’t your only car though. If you really do want driving purity then I doubt you would be disappointed with any on your list, but you need to be sure that is really wash at you want.
Through the summer it was brilliant but come the winter it was pretty dreadful. The lights were crap, you sit low so that almost all oncoming traffic dazzles you, and the practicality of getting in and out does become a chore.
All of this is easy to live with if it isn’t your only car though. If you really do want driving purity then I doubt you would be disappointed with any on your list, but you need to be sure that is really wash at you want.
stevekoz said:
I was hoping so as was hoping to do the exact same as the OP 111R, 111S or VX220.
I've seen scrolling and scrubbing the classifieds for a while. Last SC one i saw was mid September i think, and it did go for nigh on bang on £15k. However, right now i have noticed the prices starting to creep up.
Right now £15k-£17k seems to buy you a standard 2.2 N/A with decent mileage and nothing much else to it. £17k-18k for a decent Turbo. Supercharged ones are much rarer by far so i'm expecting the next one to come up to be in the same kind of region as £17-20k.
There are cheaper ones to be had but all hover in that bracket and some are quite tired and dog eared.
But don't get me wrong, i think for what you get that is still "good" money in todays market.
Like I say, with winter on the way, you are in prime position to go in with a cheeky offer and get something. And honestly, get over the mileage thing, these cars are relatively under stressed and if properly maintained can go for miles. I sold my turbo on 73k miles and it was as tight as a nut and drove beautifully.I've seen scrolling and scrubbing the classifieds for a while. Last SC one i saw was mid September i think, and it did go for nigh on bang on £15k. However, right now i have noticed the prices starting to creep up.
Right now £15k-£17k seems to buy you a standard 2.2 N/A with decent mileage and nothing much else to it. £17k-18k for a decent Turbo. Supercharged ones are much rarer by far so i'm expecting the next one to come up to be in the same kind of region as £17-20k.
There are cheaper ones to be had but all hover in that bracket and some are quite tired and dog eared.
But don't get me wrong, i think for what you get that is still "good" money in todays market.
In budget, mot history looks good and his reason for sale stacks up against the mileage. It looks like it is SORN'd though so you would need to work out how to test drive with the owner.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284988011156
Also dont automatically ignore Cat Ds. The clams are massively expensive to replace, a simply low speed impact can very easily write the car off when all it needs is a little bodywork.
I would also suggest joining the facebook pages and the uk forum and posting a wanted ad, you might just find someone willing to sell. I found my turbo on facebook.
coldel said:
Like I say, with winter on the way, you are in prime position to go in with a cheeky offer and get something. And honestly, get over the mileage thing, these cars are relatively under stressed and if properly maintained can go for miles. I sold my turbo on 73k miles and it was as tight as a nut and drove beautifully.
In budget, mot history looks good and his reason for sale stacks up against the mileage. It looks like it is SORN'd though so you would need to work out how to test drive with the owner.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284988011156
Also dont automatically ignore Cat Ds. The clams are massively expensive to replace, a simply low speed impact can very easily write the car off when all it needs is a little bodywork.
I would also suggest joining the facebook pages and the uk forum and posting a wanted ad, you might just find someone willing to sell. I found my turbo on facebook.
On that latter point, join SELOC as well and maybe drop Jon Seal and Will Blackham a line to get a heads up when they're getting something that fits the bill. In budget, mot history looks good and his reason for sale stacks up against the mileage. It looks like it is SORN'd though so you would need to work out how to test drive with the owner.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284988011156
Also dont automatically ignore Cat Ds. The clams are massively expensive to replace, a simply low speed impact can very easily write the car off when all it needs is a little bodywork.
I would also suggest joining the facebook pages and the uk forum and posting a wanted ad, you might just find someone willing to sell. I found my turbo on facebook.
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