WWII planes - the best of the best...
Discussion
after the underrated thread I did think of another contentious thread - which aircraft could be considered as one of the best. Not in terms of what it actually did in battle (eg Spitfire) but one on one with equally matched pilots.
Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
The 262 wasn't really a great dogfighter as it couldn't turn with contemporary piston engined oponents. It's forté was sheer speed. It could slash through a bomber formation without being touched. However, if caught at slower speeds, such as making a landing approach, it was "easy meat".
The 335 never got to show its mettle so it's very hard to tell how good it might have been. It certainly had great potential. It was very big and heavy - but also very fast. Because of the push pull arrangement, there were overheating problems with the rear engine. Indeed, it was an engine fire that doomed the captured British example which crashed into Cove Junior School, Farnborough, not too far from where I live today.
For top honours in World War 2 I'd suggest the Mosquito. It wasn't perfect (very few planes of that era were) but it was brilliant at nearly every job it was given.
The 335 never got to show its mettle so it's very hard to tell how good it might have been. It certainly had great potential. It was very big and heavy - but also very fast. Because of the push pull arrangement, there were overheating problems with the rear engine. Indeed, it was an engine fire that doomed the captured British example which crashed into Cove Junior School, Farnborough, not too far from where I live today.
For top honours in World War 2 I'd suggest the Mosquito. It wasn't perfect (very few planes of that era were) but it was brilliant at nearly every job it was given.
Eric Mc said:
For top honours in World War 2 I'd suggest the Mosquito. It wasn't perfect (very few planes of that era were) but it was brilliant at nearly every job it was given.
You seconded my suggestion of the P-40 for the underrated aircraft, so I'll return the favour by seconding this suggestion. I don't think any other WW2 aircraft (and very few other aircraft across history) have performed such a diverse - and seemingly disparate - variety of roles and done so well at all of them. What other design started off as a bomber that could carry a heavier payload to Berlin than a B-17 was then turned into high-performance all-weather fighter, a maritime strike aircraft and a high-speed photo platform...and do them all as well, if not better, than purpose-built platforms? Just keep it away from anywhere warm, damp and infested with woodworm!
amongst the end-of-war prototypes and limited-production 'super fighters', I think it's a shame that the Hawker Fury (that begat the Sea Fury) never got a chance to really show its capabilities as a fighter. A shame in an aircraft enthusiast sense, of course - it was good that the war ended before it was ready! But the Fury would have been a formidable machine if it had entered squadron service in Europe in the mid-1940s.
Edited by 2xChevrons on Thursday 13th October 11:38
I used to know a chap (sadly no longer with us) who was a fitter on Mosquitoes with 39 Squadron in Egypt in the early 1950s. The aircraft were in really poor shape as the wood was drying out and delaminating and the internal structures were beginning to warp and prise themselves apart. By then, of course, some of these aircraft were approaching ten years old and really should have been retired years earlier.
2xChevrons said:
Eric Mc said:
For top honours in World War 2 I'd suggest the Mosquito. It wasn't perfect (very few planes of that era were) but it was brilliant at nearly every job it was given.
You seconded my suggestion of the P-40 for the underrated aircraft, so I'll return the favour by seconding this suggestion. I don't think any other WW2 aircraft (and very few other aircraft across history) have performed such a diverse - and seemingly disparate - variety of roles and done so well at all of them. What other design started off as a bomber that could carry a heavier payload to Berlin than a B-17 was then turned into high-performance all-weather fighter, a maritime strike aircraft and a high-speed photo platform...and do them all as well, if not better, than purpose-built platforms? Worlds first true multi-role combat aircraft.
Although not designed to be, its construction and shape also made it one of the first true low-observable combat aircraft as well, it having a much smaller radar signature than a Spitfire or similar sized all-metal single-engine fighter.
Shooting one down was seen as such a feat by the Luftwaffe, they awarded 'double points' for a Mossie kill to any pilot downing one.
DodgyGeezer said:
after the underrated thread I did think of another contentious thread - which aircraft could be considered as one of the best. Not in terms of what it actually did in battle (eg Spitfire) but one on one with equally matched pilots.
Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
Would be interesting to see a duel between Griffon power Spitfire (21-24) up against 190 Dora or even Ta-152Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
kurokawa said:
DodgyGeezer said:
after the underrated thread I did think of another contentious thread - which aircraft could be considered as one of the best. Not in terms of what it actually did in battle (eg Spitfire) but one on one with equally matched pilots.
Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
Would be interesting to see a duel between Griffon power Spitfire (21-24) up against 190 Dora or even Ta-152Would, for example, the Dornier Do-335 beat a P51D or a Jug? A Spitfire mk21 beat a Corsair? Was an Arado 234 more capable than a Meteor as a reconnaissance plane?
There is at least two known Ta152 vs Tempest 1v1 combats in the final few weeks of the war.
DodgyGeezer said:
Simpo Two said:
aeropilot said:
There is at least two known Ta152 vs Tempest 1v1 combats in the final few weeks of the war.
What is a Tempest 1v1? Google doesn't know.It's received so much attention it's tempting to think it's overrated but the Spitfire really was something special.
You can make a case either way for whether contemporary Spitfires were the best fighter in any particular year.
You could argue about whether the Spitifre or the BF109 had a slight edge in 1940, though realistically there was nothing in it.
You could certainly argue that in 1945 the most modern fighters had an edge over the Spitfire, though not a particularly decisive one.
But the P51 and TA152 and Tempest weren't around in 1940, and by 1945 the BF109 was hardly a contender any more. Of course the Spitfire of 1945 was very different from the Spitfire of 1939, but that's my point. The sheer scope for development was so impressive. Was any other pre war fighter still competitive post war?
You can make a case either way for whether contemporary Spitfires were the best fighter in any particular year.
You could argue about whether the Spitifre or the BF109 had a slight edge in 1940, though realistically there was nothing in it.
You could certainly argue that in 1945 the most modern fighters had an edge over the Spitfire, though not a particularly decisive one.
But the P51 and TA152 and Tempest weren't around in 1940, and by 1945 the BF109 was hardly a contender any more. Of course the Spitfire of 1945 was very different from the Spitfire of 1939, but that's my point. The sheer scope for development was so impressive. Was any other pre war fighter still competitive post war?
DodgyGeezer said:
Lost ranger said:
Was any other pre war fighter still competitive post war?
I give you...
The Bf109 was still competitive up to the last days of WW2 though, some of the few remaining Experten still preferred to fly the 109 over other types right up to the end. It was still better than the 190 at high altitudes, even more so with the AS spec DB engines.
Lost ranger said:
It's received so much attention it's tempting to think it's overrated but the Spitfire really was something special.
It's all relative - the Spitfire was/is undoubtedly a great aircraft by all sorts of measures and it can only ever have a hugely positive assessment. But a lot of the general public, from the 1940s to today, ascribe it almost magical or even mythical properties. So it can be hugely overrated while still being entirely deserving of being rated very highly. That goes for a lot of the 'national icon' aircraft. Americans will say the same thing about the P-51 or the B-17, the Germans will say it about the Bf109 or Me262, the Japanese will say it about the Zero and the Russians will say it about the Il-2 (in that case the reputation can approach almost religious reverence).
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