New fun car dilemma - R8, M2 or Supra?
Discussion
Given what is going on in the economy at the moment I think I'm very fortunate to be in the position of being able to think about buying a fun car.
I've been a saver by nature and always hated being in any debt, (I even paid off my mortgage after 5 years in to a 15 year term!), any way, long days and hard work eventually pays off and as mentioned feeling fortunate to be deciding over whether to go for a manual Audi R8 V10, a manual BMW M2 (the new 2023 version), or the new manual Supra.
My base-line criteria has always been,
-manual gearbox
-RWD (or heavily RWD biased)
-high output engine
-limited slip rear differential
-good looking design and practical enough for touring holidays
-'reasonable' maintenance/running costs
-budget £60k max.
Now the manual Audi R8 V10 ticks all of those boxes and the new manual gearbox Supra ticks all but the "good looking design" box. Where if I were to buy the Supra I'd be spending a good chunk of money making it look right. Such as removing all the fake vents, removing the "floating roof" by colouring the A-pillars, and then likely wrapping the car for a colour that I'd like rather than the very limited colour options available from stock. Also, new alloys, because the stock ones are not to my liking.
But then the BMW M2 2023MY comes along and looks like a strong 3rd contender. Much better looking than previous model and much better engine, now with twin-turbo.
Ticking all the boxes above (if it enters the market at the suspected £60k price point or less).
If it were you, is there a clear winner over these three?
My heart is saying the V10 R8, but its not as practical as the other two and more expensive running/maintenance costs.
My head is saying either M2 or Supra, but the M2 is £10k more expensive to buy, but then I'd be chucking money in to the Supra to get it how I want it to look, which may bring it up to the same costs anyway.
I've been a saver by nature and always hated being in any debt, (I even paid off my mortgage after 5 years in to a 15 year term!), any way, long days and hard work eventually pays off and as mentioned feeling fortunate to be deciding over whether to go for a manual Audi R8 V10, a manual BMW M2 (the new 2023 version), or the new manual Supra.
My base-line criteria has always been,
-manual gearbox
-RWD (or heavily RWD biased)
-high output engine
-limited slip rear differential
-good looking design and practical enough for touring holidays
-'reasonable' maintenance/running costs
-budget £60k max.
Now the manual Audi R8 V10 ticks all of those boxes and the new manual gearbox Supra ticks all but the "good looking design" box. Where if I were to buy the Supra I'd be spending a good chunk of money making it look right. Such as removing all the fake vents, removing the "floating roof" by colouring the A-pillars, and then likely wrapping the car for a colour that I'd like rather than the very limited colour options available from stock. Also, new alloys, because the stock ones are not to my liking.
But then the BMW M2 2023MY comes along and looks like a strong 3rd contender. Much better looking than previous model and much better engine, now with twin-turbo.
Ticking all the boxes above (if it enters the market at the suspected £60k price point or less).
If it were you, is there a clear winner over these three?
My heart is saying the V10 R8, but its not as practical as the other two and more expensive running/maintenance costs.
My head is saying either M2 or Supra, but the M2 is £10k more expensive to buy, but then I'd be chucking money in to the Supra to get it how I want it to look, which may bring it up to the same costs anyway.
Personal opinions on this...
The M2 is gopping, it looks like it was built out of lego blocks and with the anticipated £70k entry cost for it once you've got a respectable spec I think it's really hard to justify that pricepoint unless you absolutely fall in love with that particular car.
The Supra, objectively looks like a cracking car. I think childhood romanticising of the original car has left me a little cold when I looked around the new model, but I think that's just because of the name - Same thing with the new 'Defender'. It sounds like you'd be putting in a good chunk of money to get a Supra to where you'd want it to be, which for me would come with the downside of feeling that I have to get my money's worth of the car so even if I was bored within a year I'd want to keep it for 'x' years because I'm going to lose that ~£10k extra for the changes I made that nobody else will want to pay for.
It also feels somewhat confused inside when it feels like you've stepped in to a BMW and have to take a second glance at the badge on that steering wheel.
The R8 I adore and think it's aged really well. At £60k budget a quick look on AT suggests you're looking at a 2013/14 model, I think the saving grace for the Audi here is that they do (or maybe just did?) interiors so well that they've aged nicely and despite lacking a few toys I could happily live with that interior for a long while. Unfortunately they're out of my budget but from reading around a few owners threads I think the key to running these on a sensible budget is finding a good independent garage and sticking with them.
The M2 is gopping, it looks like it was built out of lego blocks and with the anticipated £70k entry cost for it once you've got a respectable spec I think it's really hard to justify that pricepoint unless you absolutely fall in love with that particular car.
The Supra, objectively looks like a cracking car. I think childhood romanticising of the original car has left me a little cold when I looked around the new model, but I think that's just because of the name - Same thing with the new 'Defender'. It sounds like you'd be putting in a good chunk of money to get a Supra to where you'd want it to be, which for me would come with the downside of feeling that I have to get my money's worth of the car so even if I was bored within a year I'd want to keep it for 'x' years because I'm going to lose that ~£10k extra for the changes I made that nobody else will want to pay for.
It also feels somewhat confused inside when it feels like you've stepped in to a BMW and have to take a second glance at the badge on that steering wheel.
The R8 I adore and think it's aged really well. At £60k budget a quick look on AT suggests you're looking at a 2013/14 model, I think the saving grace for the Audi here is that they do (or maybe just did?) interiors so well that they've aged nicely and despite lacking a few toys I could happily live with that interior for a long while. Unfortunately they're out of my budget but from reading around a few owners threads I think the key to running these on a sensible budget is finding a good independent garage and sticking with them.
R8 is getting the votes I see. 
And yep, it is a car that I've had on my wish list for a few years now, as I wait for prices to stabilize and even fall to more reasonable levels.
The 80% rear - 20% front drive split, going through a mechanical limited slip diff, is enough rear bias to make the car enjoyable on the Alpine passes.
The only downside of the car from what I can see, is its luggage capacity, which may make two-week long holidays in Europe a bit of a mission. (Especially if the wife can't pack all her 'things').
A small 'boot' at the front which can take only the size of an airline carry-on bag, and then just the space behind the seats. It may be enough if we can double stack bags behind the seats and we really compact everything down to the minimums.
If the 2023MY BMW M2 price point is at £70k, then I'll quickly lose interest in that car. I've always had a matter of principal view point about value for money in everything I buy, and £70k is simply £10k too expensive for that car as I would view it. It may however become an option in future years if the second hand prices are reasonable.
The Supra, yep, as per some comments above, its a bit of a marmite car. I adored the Mk4 Supra, and hated the Mk5 when it was released. Toyota chose to re-designate the model from a practical sports-GT that used to compete with the likes of the 911 Turbo, in to a "pure sports car" that is now comparable to the Z4 and Cayman, and I believe that was Toyota's own words just a few months before the release of the new model.
But as we all know the Toyota FT-01 concept looked like an amazing car if it were to have become the new Mk5, however the resultant effort that was released after the bean-counters had their say, well, it was more than disappointing. Its clear to see that it is a re-badged Z4 hard-top. (Old shaped Z4 at that, but with fake vents and body bulges added in to throw customers off the ball).
BUT, with the release of the manual gearbox and the ability to tune the car and get it looking more respectable, it has for all its faults, remained on my watch list.
And yep, it is a car that I've had on my wish list for a few years now, as I wait for prices to stabilize and even fall to more reasonable levels.
The 80% rear - 20% front drive split, going through a mechanical limited slip diff, is enough rear bias to make the car enjoyable on the Alpine passes.
The only downside of the car from what I can see, is its luggage capacity, which may make two-week long holidays in Europe a bit of a mission. (Especially if the wife can't pack all her 'things').
A small 'boot' at the front which can take only the size of an airline carry-on bag, and then just the space behind the seats. It may be enough if we can double stack bags behind the seats and we really compact everything down to the minimums.
If the 2023MY BMW M2 price point is at £70k, then I'll quickly lose interest in that car. I've always had a matter of principal view point about value for money in everything I buy, and £70k is simply £10k too expensive for that car as I would view it. It may however become an option in future years if the second hand prices are reasonable.
The Supra, yep, as per some comments above, its a bit of a marmite car. I adored the Mk4 Supra, and hated the Mk5 when it was released. Toyota chose to re-designate the model from a practical sports-GT that used to compete with the likes of the 911 Turbo, in to a "pure sports car" that is now comparable to the Z4 and Cayman, and I believe that was Toyota's own words just a few months before the release of the new model.
But as we all know the Toyota FT-01 concept looked like an amazing car if it were to have become the new Mk5, however the resultant effort that was released after the bean-counters had their say, well, it was more than disappointing. Its clear to see that it is a re-badged Z4 hard-top. (Old shaped Z4 at that, but with fake vents and body bulges added in to throw customers off the ball).
BUT, with the release of the manual gearbox and the ability to tune the car and get it looking more respectable, it has for all its faults, remained on my watch list.
I would also vote for the R8 out of your list - its just that little bit more "special" than the other two
if the touring element is going to be a deal breaker - how about an Aston?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...
or perhaps a Lotus?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209019...
if the touring element is going to be a deal breaker - how about an Aston?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...
or perhaps a Lotus?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209019...
A neighbour won a V10 R8 in a car competition, admittedly it came from a competition so no choice in what he got, but it spent the first 12 months in the Audi garage with very expensive problems! Sounded superb starting up though! Looks wise for me it looks too Audi, and not supercar enough, it looks a bit safe and blends into the background more than other supercars do.
What about an M40i Z4 if you dont like the looks of the Supra?
F Type V8 coupe?
Alfa 4C/Alpine A110?
At your price range some great options out there. A bit late to get onto the Lotus waiting list for the Emira I suspect.
What about an M40i Z4 if you dont like the looks of the Supra?
F Type V8 coupe?
Alfa 4C/Alpine A110?
At your price range some great options out there. A bit late to get onto the Lotus waiting list for the Emira I suspect.
mattman said:
I would also vote for the R8 out of your list - its just that little bit more "special" than the other two
if the touring element is going to be a deal breaker - how about an Aston?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...
or perhaps a Lotus?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209019...
Yeah I did look at the 4.7L Vantage, but there is a reason why so many are for sale, and its because they generally cost more than Ferraris to keep running. Its one of those cars that people buy, collect the t-shirt and then realise they have to get rid otherwise they face bankruptcy. if the touring element is going to be a deal breaker - how about an Aston?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...
or perhaps a Lotus?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209019...
I've driven a couple of examples in the past and they are very nice cars, if a little underpowered for their weight. A great GT car, but its just the upkeep costs that turn me off these.
The Evora, nice car of course and it did cross my radar in the past, but they don't come with a Limited Slip Diff, instead the Evora adopts a 'fake' LSD in the form of rear wheel independent braking.
I took one out for a test drive just before covid took hold and it was really noticeable in the way of trying to get the power down on tight corner exits, it resulted in the back end having a hissy fit every time. Especially when the road is a bit moist with dry patches. (Not what you'd want on every hairpin exit on the Alpine mountain passes). The Evora , Elise and the Exige are more suited to the track environment in my view, and not best suited to what I'm looking for in a long distance holiday car.
Thanks for the suggestions all the same.
coldel said:
A neighbour won a V10 R8 in a car competition, admittedly it came from a competition so no choice in what he got, but it spent the first 12 months in the Audi garage with very expensive problems! Sounded superb starting up though! Looks wise for me it looks too Audi, and not supercar enough, it looks a bit safe and blends into the background more than other supercars do.
What about an M40i Z4 if you dont like the looks of the Supra?
F Type V8 coupe?
Alfa 4C/Alpine A110?
At your price range some great options out there. A bit late to get onto the Lotus waiting list for the Emira I suspect.
Some great suggestions. And yes these have also crossed my radar in the past, but the likes of the Alfa and Alpine, just too small for a two-week touring holiday in Europe for me and the wife.What about an M40i Z4 if you dont like the looks of the Supra?
F Type V8 coupe?
Alfa 4C/Alpine A110?
At your price range some great options out there. A bit late to get onto the Lotus waiting list for the Emira I suspect.
The Jag, took a V8 version out on a test drive a few years ago and just couldn't 'connect' with the car. It was however an autobox version. I do still need to find a manual gearbox V8 to test drive and I have a feeling it will be completely different.
I've read they are similar running/maintenance costs to an R8, so thanks for reminding me, need to check around the local dealers to see if they have any manual examples to take out for a run.
GroundZero said:
Some great suggestions. And yes these have also crossed my radar in the past, but the likes of the Alfa and Alpine, just too small for a two-week touring holiday in Europe for me and the wife.
The Jag, took a V8 version out on a test drive a few years ago and just couldn't 'connect' with the car. It was however an autobox version. I do still need to find a manual gearbox V8 to test drive and I have a feeling it will be completely different.
I've read they are similar running/maintenance costs to an R8, so thanks for reminding me, need to check around the local dealers to see if they have any manual examples to take out for a run.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the most powerful F Type you could get with a manual gearbox was the V6 S with 380bhp and it got a pretty poor review with the 6 speed ZF gearbox just not being as fun as manual owners had hoped it would be - Combined with a fairly naff, long travel clutch.The Jag, took a V8 version out on a test drive a few years ago and just couldn't 'connect' with the car. It was however an autobox version. I do still need to find a manual gearbox V8 to test drive and I have a feeling it will be completely different.
I've read they are similar running/maintenance costs to an R8, so thanks for reminding me, need to check around the local dealers to see if they have any manual examples to take out for a run.
PH actually had one as a long term car and didn't rate the manual box at all
https://youtu.be/h7iuhkPr4P8
GroundZero said:
Some great suggestions. And yes these have also crossed my radar in the past, but the likes of the Alfa and Alpine, just too small for a two-week touring holiday in Europe for me and the wife.
The Jag, took a V8 version out on a test drive a few years ago and just couldn't 'connect' with the car. It was however an autobox version. I do still need to find a manual gearbox V8 to test drive and I have a feeling it will be completely different.
I've read they are similar running/maintenance costs to an R8, so thanks for reminding me, need to check around the local dealers to see if they have any manual examples to take out for a run.
981 Cayman? Mate had one on the NC500 and the car took it in its stride. Money to spare too!The Jag, took a V8 version out on a test drive a few years ago and just couldn't 'connect' with the car. It was however an autobox version. I do still need to find a manual gearbox V8 to test drive and I have a feeling it will be completely different.
I've read they are similar running/maintenance costs to an R8, so thanks for reminding me, need to check around the local dealers to see if they have any manual examples to take out for a run.
Supra for me out of your list.
I’m not a fan of the M2’s looks but understand it’s a great drive, the R8 is getting long in the tooth.
I’ve driven the Alpine back to back with a Cayman at Thruxton (somebody above mentioned the Alpine) and it was sublime. It’s where my money would go.
The Supra will come with Toyota’s 10 year warranty so long as it’s dealer serviced won’t it? That’s worth having I’d have thought.
I actually love the Toyota’s looks too although I admit many don’t.
I’m not a fan of the M2’s looks but understand it’s a great drive, the R8 is getting long in the tooth.
I’ve driven the Alpine back to back with a Cayman at Thruxton (somebody above mentioned the Alpine) and it was sublime. It’s where my money would go.
The Supra will come with Toyota’s 10 year warranty so long as it’s dealer serviced won’t it? That’s worth having I’d have thought.
I actually love the Toyota’s looks too although I admit many don’t.
The R8 maintenance costs are fairly low...£400 minor service, £800 major. However, if they do break down, the parts are expensive. If you keep the mileage below 5k a year, you should be ok but if you start doing more than 10k a year, you should take a warranty (£1k-2k depending if you go franchised or not)
The biggest issue that I see is the luggage space. You can get some bespoke pieces of luggage for the frunk and as said before, there is some space behind the seats but it is tight for touring for 2 weeks.
The car is also fairly low so you have to be careful with ramps and all... and Audi dealerships are dreadful.
Otherwise, the engine is epic and it handles very well on michelin rubbers. I had a manual for a year or so but did not rate it and change it for a gen 1 s tronic instead but that's a matter of preference. I also went for the plus so i did not have to deal with the leaky adaptive dampers that plague the standard R8.
Once thing for sure is that you need to get the car fully inspected before you purchase one even if it comes from a franchised dealer.
The biggest issue that I see is the luggage space. You can get some bespoke pieces of luggage for the frunk and as said before, there is some space behind the seats but it is tight for touring for 2 weeks.
The car is also fairly low so you have to be careful with ramps and all... and Audi dealerships are dreadful.
Otherwise, the engine is epic and it handles very well on michelin rubbers. I had a manual for a year or so but did not rate it and change it for a gen 1 s tronic instead but that's a matter of preference. I also went for the plus so i did not have to deal with the leaky adaptive dampers that plague the standard R8.
Once thing for sure is that you need to get the car fully inspected before you purchase one even if it comes from a franchised dealer.
GroundZero said:
Given what is going on in the economy at the moment I think I'm very fortunate to be in the position of being able to think about buying a fun car.
I've been a saver by nature and always hated being in any debt, (I even paid off my mortgage after 5 years in to a 15 year term!), any way, long days and hard work eventually pays off and as mentioned feeling fortunate to be deciding over whether to go for a manual Audi R8 V10, a manual BMW M2 (the new 2023 version), or the new manual Supra.
My base-line criteria has always been,
-manual gearbox
-RWD (or heavily RWD biased)
-high output engine
-limited slip rear differential
-good looking design and practical enough for touring holidays
-'reasonable' maintenance/running costs
-budget £60k max.
Now the manual Audi R8 V10 ticks all of those boxes and the new manual gearbox Supra ticks all but the "good looking design" box. Where if I were to buy the Supra I'd be spending a good chunk of money making it look right. Such as removing all the fake vents, removing the "floating roof" by colouring the A-pillars, and then likely wrapping the car for a colour that I'd like rather than the very limited colour options available from stock. Also, new alloys, because the stock ones are not to my liking.
But then the BMW M2 2023MY comes along and looks like a strong 3rd contender. Much better looking than previous model and much better engine, now with twin-turbo.
Ticking all the boxes above (if it enters the market at the suspected £60k price point or less).
If it were you, is there a clear winner over these three?
My heart is saying the V10 R8, but its not as practical as the other two and more expensive running/maintenance costs.
My head is saying either M2 or Supra, but the M2 is £10k more expensive to buy, but then I'd be chucking money in to the Supra to get it how I want it to look, which may bring it up to the same costs anyway.
Specsavers called whilst you were out ...I've been a saver by nature and always hated being in any debt, (I even paid off my mortgage after 5 years in to a 15 year term!), any way, long days and hard work eventually pays off and as mentioned feeling fortunate to be deciding over whether to go for a manual Audi R8 V10, a manual BMW M2 (the new 2023 version), or the new manual Supra.
My base-line criteria has always been,
-manual gearbox
-RWD (or heavily RWD biased)
-high output engine
-limited slip rear differential
-good looking design and practical enough for touring holidays
-'reasonable' maintenance/running costs
-budget £60k max.
Now the manual Audi R8 V10 ticks all of those boxes and the new manual gearbox Supra ticks all but the "good looking design" box. Where if I were to buy the Supra I'd be spending a good chunk of money making it look right. Such as removing all the fake vents, removing the "floating roof" by colouring the A-pillars, and then likely wrapping the car for a colour that I'd like rather than the very limited colour options available from stock. Also, new alloys, because the stock ones are not to my liking.
But then the BMW M2 2023MY comes along and looks like a strong 3rd contender. Much better looking than previous model and much better engine, now with twin-turbo.
Ticking all the boxes above (if it enters the market at the suspected £60k price point or less).
If it were you, is there a clear winner over these three?
My heart is saying the V10 R8, but its not as practical as the other two and more expensive running/maintenance costs.
My head is saying either M2 or Supra, but the M2 is £10k more expensive to buy, but then I'd be chucking money in to the Supra to get it how I want it to look, which may bring it up to the same costs anyway.
Btw the answer is always V10.
TX.
If you want to tinker with your purchase then it has to be the Supra there are so many things you can do to it to make it your own.
The R8's aren't cheap to run (when the unexpected goes wrong) general maintenance is sensible but they're cheaper to run than an RS6!
I'm going to go against the grain & choose the Supra.
The R8's aren't cheap to run (when the unexpected goes wrong) general maintenance is sensible but they're cheaper to run than an RS6!
I'm going to go against the grain & choose the Supra.
Boxster Spyder?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208108...
Two boots for stuff, sounds great, lovely drive, rare, won’t lose value…etc..
Wish I’d kept mine
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208108...
Two boots for stuff, sounds great, lovely drive, rare, won’t lose value…etc..
Wish I’d kept mine
R8 don’t suffer many expensive issues tbh & mines not thrown me anything bigger than a oil sensor in over 3yrs ownership.
Magnetic ride suspension in the cars 09-12 are prone to leaking. Later cars have dynamic shocks. A common resolve to leaky magride is to fit the later shocks 4x of them cost same as 1x magride, or coilovers if you track.
Clutch change a bit more expensive than other cars.
Steel brakes expensive to replace for what they are. Ccbs very good if you find one with them.
Aircon can be prone to not working, condensers at each side on the front catch all the road debris and can leak. Pumps apparently can wreck themselves but not as common.
Oil switches fail.
Oil & gearbox oil cooler hoses fail on the early cars due to dissimilar metals. Make sure it’s been changed.
Great cars and sense of occasion driving each and every time. I can’t think of much as special as a v10 r8 for 40-60k.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eqtVPZv4QQs
Magnetic ride suspension in the cars 09-12 are prone to leaking. Later cars have dynamic shocks. A common resolve to leaky magride is to fit the later shocks 4x of them cost same as 1x magride, or coilovers if you track.
Clutch change a bit more expensive than other cars.
Steel brakes expensive to replace for what they are. Ccbs very good if you find one with them.
Aircon can be prone to not working, condensers at each side on the front catch all the road debris and can leak. Pumps apparently can wreck themselves but not as common.
Oil switches fail.
Oil & gearbox oil cooler hoses fail on the early cars due to dissimilar metals. Make sure it’s been changed.
Great cars and sense of occasion driving each and every time. I can’t think of much as special as a v10 r8 for 40-60k.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eqtVPZv4QQs
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