Widespread lethargy
Discussion
Since COVID, we've found that bad debt in our businesses has risen and a "cannot be bothered" attitude from suppliers and customers alike. For the first time ever, we are finding ourselves in legal proceedings with customers.
We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
Similar. I'm in aviation and we can't get people, or they stay a week and leave. Lots of the good people came off furlough and went straight to early retirement after adapting and realising they could live off less money. People are cutting back because they can't increase earnings to overcome rising personal costs so they get off the treadmill and downsize. I think the lockdowns caused people to re-evaluate their lives and they didn't want to get back to their old lives. The impression though is of total malaise, a bit like living in Atlas Shrugged in real life. The tax burden on PAYE doesn't help either, especially with trying to get people to do overtime and creates a 'what's the point because I lose so much of it anyway'
Totally, banks, doctors, dentists, etc. Customer service seems to have fallen off a cliff.
Seeing a bit more 'slow payers' too.
One of the PS guys had a moan at me for being sharp with a customer for non payment.
They straight up told us they were stopping paying the normal invoices due to an issue with a separate piece of paid work.
They are nearly 6 months behind!!
But yeah, lets tip toe around them!!
Seeing a bit more 'slow payers' too.
One of the PS guys had a moan at me for being sharp with a customer for non payment.
They straight up told us they were stopping paying the normal invoices due to an issue with a separate piece of paid work.
They are nearly 6 months behind!!
But yeah, lets tip toe around them!!
Yes. In spades.
Our own employees: don’t want to do any more hours than necessary even though we pay relatively very well (double time door to door for nights/weekends).
Subbies: outrageous day rate demands. Lack of availability, and picking and choosing easy/local work only.
Suppliers: awful. Almost across the board. No interest, emails unanswered, phones not manned, service levels are abysmal, prices are very high! Again nobody wants to work out of hours.
We’ve ended up with a hard-core of 4 or 5 employees (and me as one of the managers) doing nearly all the weekend jobs. It’s been fantastic for me as I’ve been racking up £’000s in overtime, but now I need a break so have stopped doing weekends for a while, it’s a nightmare to resource jobs.
One of my brothers is also a Contracts Mgr but he works in HV electrical installs. He says exactly the same. His own sparks are getting very lazy, yet demanding 20/30/40% rate rises, nobody wants to do weekends, suppliers are crap (same reasons I gave) and their prices are still outrageous and rising. The main difference with
Him is that his jobs have a huge amount of materials costs, whereas mine don’t. His clients are giving him grief about him putting his prices up but there’s no way around it.
Slightly related, but a few of my friends are a bit older than me; I have 3 good fitness in their mid 50s. A dentist, an HR manager, and an NHS manager. All 3 have retired in the last 12 months due to realising they didn’t need to put up with the increasing amount of “stress and bulls
t” associated with their jobs ! Actually one has changed careers but now is only working 2 days a week and wants to wind down to retire over the next 2-3 years ).
Our own employees: don’t want to do any more hours than necessary even though we pay relatively very well (double time door to door for nights/weekends).
Subbies: outrageous day rate demands. Lack of availability, and picking and choosing easy/local work only.
Suppliers: awful. Almost across the board. No interest, emails unanswered, phones not manned, service levels are abysmal, prices are very high! Again nobody wants to work out of hours.
We’ve ended up with a hard-core of 4 or 5 employees (and me as one of the managers) doing nearly all the weekend jobs. It’s been fantastic for me as I’ve been racking up £’000s in overtime, but now I need a break so have stopped doing weekends for a while, it’s a nightmare to resource jobs.
One of my brothers is also a Contracts Mgr but he works in HV electrical installs. He says exactly the same. His own sparks are getting very lazy, yet demanding 20/30/40% rate rises, nobody wants to do weekends, suppliers are crap (same reasons I gave) and their prices are still outrageous and rising. The main difference with
Him is that his jobs have a huge amount of materials costs, whereas mine don’t. His clients are giving him grief about him putting his prices up but there’s no way around it.
Slightly related, but a few of my friends are a bit older than me; I have 3 good fitness in their mid 50s. A dentist, an HR manager, and an NHS manager. All 3 have retired in the last 12 months due to realising they didn’t need to put up with the increasing amount of “stress and bulls
t” associated with their jobs ! Actually one has changed careers but now is only working 2 days a week and wants to wind down to retire over the next 2-3 years ). In one of our divisions, we cut the number of clients from 190 to around 80, preferring to concentrate on those that pay on time and give us value with an aim to build back up slowly. The problem now is that the staff are used to dealing with lower numbers and are just cruising. Any new staff will only have worked with 80 clients and working harder to accommodate more than that is alien to them.
You can tell the companies that are all working from home. Nightmare to get hold of anyone, all returned calls are from mobiles rather than office numbers. Postal addresses changed to PO box numbers.
Couldn't get hold of an insurance broker a couple of weeks ago, tried several numbers, no one there to pick up. In the end got fed up and called the underwriter directly (wasn't claim related). Ended up raising a 3rd party complaint about the broker in despair. That soon got them moving, within a few days I got a very apologetic response from their head of compliance and compensation. Explained to the guy how all that could have been avoided if someone had just answered the phone first time round.
Couldn't get hold of an insurance broker a couple of weeks ago, tried several numbers, no one there to pick up. In the end got fed up and called the underwriter directly (wasn't claim related). Ended up raising a 3rd party complaint about the broker in despair. That soon got them moving, within a few days I got a very apologetic response from their head of compliance and compensation. Explained to the guy how all that could have been avoided if someone had just answered the phone first time round.
My wife’s company has been hit with a double whammy in some respects
Can’t get decent staff / people to stay for any length of time, no matter what they try - previously people loved it and stayed forever
Business is very hard now (they export stuff), too much in terms of over heads / red tape, guess this is a brexit thing
Can’t get decent staff / people to stay for any length of time, no matter what they try - previously people loved it and stayed forever
Business is very hard now (they export stuff), too much in terms of over heads / red tape, guess this is a brexit thing
From the other pov it's good to see people realising that they don't need to work themselves to the bone to live comfortably.
As far as weekend work goes we set up a shift system so people work three or four days through the week then cover weekend hours. I think the days of being able to convince people that they essentially need to be on call 7 days a week are long gone.
As far as weekend work goes we set up a shift system so people work three or four days through the week then cover weekend hours. I think the days of being able to convince people that they essentially need to be on call 7 days a week are long gone.
Spare tyre said:
Business is very hard now (they export stuff), too much in terms of over heads / red tape, guess this is a brexit thing
It's definitely brexit related, our UK operation dropped from a roughly 60/40 split between UK and international orders to domestic making up 98% of orders in about a year after it happened.Can't argue with any of the findings.
But, I have to say, the demands for higher wages/rates and a lack of flexibility with hours will come home to roost when the heating bills come in and inflation stubbornly refuses to dip below 10%. Disposable income will diminish and businesses will lay off staff to save money.
It is an unprecedented situation unless you can remember back to the 70s. Most haven't experienced high inflation, high interest rates and economic unrest on this scale. None of it helped by 24hr social and news media predicting doom and gloom and why isn't the Government doing more?
New Year and I think a lot more people will be willing to be more flexible.
But, I have to say, the demands for higher wages/rates and a lack of flexibility with hours will come home to roost when the heating bills come in and inflation stubbornly refuses to dip below 10%. Disposable income will diminish and businesses will lay off staff to save money.
It is an unprecedented situation unless you can remember back to the 70s. Most haven't experienced high inflation, high interest rates and economic unrest on this scale. None of it helped by 24hr social and news media predicting doom and gloom and why isn't the Government doing more?
New Year and I think a lot more people will be willing to be more flexible.
How about a view from the other side.
Why do people need to be available at a moments notice during weekends? If they don't need to earn the money weekends pay they why wouldn't they want to spend time with love ones instead.
A lot of people realised during lock down that they were working far too many extra hours for no pay. The business owners just expect this, and dump more and more work on them. Why do this just so the boss can get richer and richer. They can't sack you if you go home when they stop paying you.
A lot of people nearing retirement had time to look at their finances and work out that they do not need a lot more money to reach the end of their life without running out of cash. Why would they put up with all that stress and office politics.
I decided to stop working at 55 as I had enough of being asked to work extra hours to bail out my manager who had not bothered to do stuff in time. This just tipped me over the edge, and I quit. Lock down then started a few weeks later and finding a job was not going to happen. Looked at my finances and decided to not look for work. All this time later and I am more than happy with the situation and will not be heading back to work any time soon.
A lot may not like those views but I sure I am not the only one who thinks like that.
Why do people need to be available at a moments notice during weekends? If they don't need to earn the money weekends pay they why wouldn't they want to spend time with love ones instead.
A lot of people realised during lock down that they were working far too many extra hours for no pay. The business owners just expect this, and dump more and more work on them. Why do this just so the boss can get richer and richer. They can't sack you if you go home when they stop paying you.
A lot of people nearing retirement had time to look at their finances and work out that they do not need a lot more money to reach the end of their life without running out of cash. Why would they put up with all that stress and office politics.
I decided to stop working at 55 as I had enough of being asked to work extra hours to bail out my manager who had not bothered to do stuff in time. This just tipped me over the edge, and I quit. Lock down then started a few weeks later and finding a job was not going to happen. Looked at my finances and decided to not look for work. All this time later and I am more than happy with the situation and will not be heading back to work any time soon.
A lot may not like those views but I sure I am not the only one who thinks like that.
ARHarh said:
A lot may not like those views but I sure I am not the only one who thinks like that.
Absolutely spot on, I am 49 and I 100% agree with you. Work is too stressful these days, why should I be under constant pressure and expected to work extra hours just so my boss can earn a bit more money to get a slightly bigger house or an upgrade to his car?Plus the amount of tax you pay makes it pointless to work hard to get promoted so you end up with a few hundred extra pounds a month. For what, to buy more pointless consumer crap that I don't even want?
Personally I am just trying to keep my head down, pay off my mortgage, overpay my pension until I get to the day when I think I can't do this anymore and quit.
Why on earth would I want to work myself to death just to have an Audi sitting on the drive?
Joey Deacon said:
ARHarh said:
A lot may not like those views but I sure I am not the only one who thinks like that.
Absolutely spot on, I am 49 and I 100% agree with you. Work is too stressful these days, why should I be under constant pressure and expected to work extra hours just so my boss can earn a bit more money to get a slightly bigger house or an upgrade to his car?Plus the amount of tax you pay makes it pointless to work hard to get promoted so you end up with a few hundred extra pounds a month. For what, to buy more pointless consumer crap that I don't even want?
Personally I am just trying to keep my head down, pay off my mortgage, overpay my pension until I get to the day when I think I can't do this anymore and quit.
Why on earth would I want to work myself to death just to have an Audi sitting on the drive?
A lot of my mates can’t understand that, just a shame I can’t bottle what I have!
On the car front I used to have fancy stuff, now it’s just problematic and I enjoy my friends shiny stuff without the need to worry about it
ARHarh said:
A lot of people nearing retirement had time to look at their finances and work out that they do not need a lot more money to reach the end of their life without running out of cash. Why would they put up with all that stress and office politics.
My previous job, the manager will always say yes no matter what the demand from higher up. Of course she would say yes when she only work part time. That job offer 1.5 OT pay but no money could buy the time I lose that could spend with my kids. Lots of time it was poor or lack of planning from higher management lead to those “emergency”. Working extra won’t get us promotion either when our manager have a strong say who get promote, kissing her arse seem way more effective than having strong background, experience and working hardWhilst some elements of 'ste service' come directly from Brexit (UK labour shortage and import/export issues) and Global/UK materials shortage, there is no doubt that the 'lethargy', reduced hours, and so on from smaller contractors or smaller businesses are as a result of the mindset change brought about by the Covid years.
It is all part of 'the great resignation' which has been happening.
I listed to a radio phone-in the other day where loads of people were calling in to describe how they had now decided to retire in their 40's or 50's, or decided to stop working weekends, or move to easier jobs, and so on. It was really interesting.
Nurses and other hospital staff changing career to work in supermarkets, teachers quitting to become Amazon drivers, tradesmen quitting to become postmen, or many just quitting to retire, and so on.
Essentially, a significant portion of our working population are now deciding to scale down their lifestyles to enable them to retire years/decades early, and also to downsize their careers so something easier, less stressful, and less hours.
Personally, I know a few people who run small business, employing anything from 1-30 people, and to a greater or lesser extent, they have decided to take their foot off the gas and take a lot more time out, spend more time with families, and allow their staff to work less hours as well if that is that they want. If that means letting down some customers or leaving people waiting longer for their goods or services, then so be it.
This will of course cause increased issues within the next few years unless we allow some sort of large scale freedom of movement into this country to encourage larger numbers of younger people into the workforce.
It is not all doom and gloom though. I'm senior within a business who supply contractors/consultants/interim people and the whole 'Good people are hard to find' thing is good for business. We supply good people and clients are happy to pay. It is also good news for employees who show willing and want to press on in their career. There are plenty of opportunities at the moment.
te service' come directly from Brexit (UK labour shortage and import/export issues) and Global/UK materials shortage, there is no doubt that the 'lethargy', reduced hours, and so on from smaller contractors or smaller businesses are as a result of the mindset change brought about by the Covid years. It is all part of 'the great resignation' which has been happening.
I listed to a radio phone-in the other day where loads of people were calling in to describe how they had now decided to retire in their 40's or 50's, or decided to stop working weekends, or move to easier jobs, and so on. It was really interesting.
Nurses and other hospital staff changing career to work in supermarkets, teachers quitting to become Amazon drivers, tradesmen quitting to become postmen, or many just quitting to retire, and so on.
Essentially, a significant portion of our working population are now deciding to scale down their lifestyles to enable them to retire years/decades early, and also to downsize their careers so something easier, less stressful, and less hours.
Personally, I know a few people who run small business, employing anything from 1-30 people, and to a greater or lesser extent, they have decided to take their foot off the gas and take a lot more time out, spend more time with families, and allow their staff to work less hours as well if that is that they want. If that means letting down some customers or leaving people waiting longer for their goods or services, then so be it.
This will of course cause increased issues within the next few years unless we allow some sort of large scale freedom of movement into this country to encourage larger numbers of younger people into the workforce.
It is not all doom and gloom though. I'm senior within a business who supply contractors/consultants/interim people and the whole 'Good people are hard to find' thing is good for business. We supply good people and clients are happy to pay. It is also good news for employees who show willing and want to press on in their career. There are plenty of opportunities at the moment.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 19th October 13:41
It's shocking that after thirty years of running employees into the ground in the name of saving money/making profit, people can't be bothered with it when they realise they don't need to do it 
It's an interesting time as people have definitely changed their views on the importance of the work/life balance but the government and big business are desperate to try and get people back into the unhealthy old practices.
It's an interesting time as people have definitely changed their views on the importance of the work/life balance but the government and big business are desperate to try and get people back into the unhealthy old practices.
Louis Balfour said:
Since COVID, we've found that bad debt in our businesses has risen and a "cannot be bothered" attitude from suppliers and customers alike. For the first time ever, we are finding ourselves in legal proceedings with customers.
We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
“ It's his business”We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
That’s about all there is to it really. He’s self-employed. His decison.
Heard an interesting bit on the radio radio that a growing problem is a huge section of society have decided their house has grown in value so much they can afford to retire much earlier. Or at the very least take their foot right off the gas. Safe(ish) in the knowledge, that if they run out of cash, they can sell the house, remortgage, etc.
However, this will inevitably trickle down to labour shortages, wage inflation, reduced profits etc..
As long as a political party is kept in power via pledges to maintain house prices and pensions, the problem is likely to get worse.
So they guy was saying. No idea of the truth of it.
However, this will inevitably trickle down to labour shortages, wage inflation, reduced profits etc..
As long as a political party is kept in power via pledges to maintain house prices and pensions, the problem is likely to get worse.
So they guy was saying. No idea of the truth of it.
Louis Balfour said:
Since COVID, we've found that bad debt in our businesses has risen and a "cannot be bothered" attitude from suppliers and customers alike. For the first time ever, we are finding ourselves in legal proceedings with customers.
We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
To the OP, did you share the good times with your own employees? When you've made record profits did your own employees see a significant upside to that, substantial bonus etc? Srs question.We've recently parted company with a major contractor, of many years standing, who started invoicing for work not completed. They fully expected to be paid for it too, even when called out on it. Once upon a time they would never have done that. It made continuing with them impossible.
Two of our regular self-employed handymen, who used to have quite a good work ethic, have decided that they will now only work Monday to Friday, despite the requirement being for them to be on call at weekends too. One of them is taking a lot of holidays as well - he has been off half of the last month. It's his business, but it doesn't make it easy to use him.
Large organisations have been slower to pick up the phone and staff seem to be working from home still. The banks we deal with have been even worse than previously. I am spending much more of my day just trying to get people to do their fundamental job. So much so, that I am thinking of closing one business entirely.
Is anyone else finding this and, if so, to what do you attribute it?
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