Melling and Autocraft Presentation

[yzf1070]

Well for those of you whom attended I am sure it was indeed an interesting and enlightening experience. It sure was for me. Some of the engineering detail with regards to engine design was heavy going but Melling did a very good job of delivering it to the audience. I managed to keep up with just about all of it. I am pleased that it was not a TVR slagging venue as well. Melling came across as very passionate for the marque, believing it to be the only true thorough in house Sports car manufacturer in the UK.

For those of you who didn't go, but want to know what was said....its a shame you weren't there because its too long winded to put down here. There was a video camera set up for some of it, but I don't know what the long term intention is for the recording. For those more interested I suggest you contact TVR/Autocraft and enquire.

Anyway the basics are that the AJP6 design other than basic layout is a very different engine to the Speed 6 produced by TVR. There were 2 AJP6 engines one whole and one broken down to the major components and one Speed 6 engine's major components. The visible differences were startling. From the crank, the rods, the block, to the head. And then the design and build of the valve train geometry all are different to the TVR Speed 6 result. The original design even catered for ease of maintenance access to oil filter and alternator/power steering pump belt replacement. Attributes lost on the Speed 6 design. Mellings interpretation for the reasoning behind the changes were given from his point of view. He intimated that it all comes down to contracts, design ownership and legalities.

I got the impression Melling definitely favours the AJP8 over the AJP6 (Speed6). The 8 is a much better engine altogether. He wanted it to be a 4 valve head instead of the 2 upon which TVR insisted.

TVR/Autocraft will replace just about everything in the head apart from the cams with new re-designed components and modify the oil feed. There are other internal mods involved aswell. Even tho its going to take sometime to get my car back, I am very pleased that it is with TVR Craft who have the support of MCD. I look forward to next summer and the next and the next and the.....I am sure you get my point...!

Rgds

G

[daftlad]

yzf1070 said:

Well for those of you whom attended I am sure it was indeed an interesting and enlightening experience. It sure was for me. Some of the engineering detail with regards to engine design was heavy going but Melling did a very good job of delivering it to the audience. I managed to keep up with just about all of it. I am pleased that it was not a TVR slagging venue as well. Melling came across as very passionate for the marque, believing it to be the only true thorough in house Sports car manufacturer in the UK. For those of you who didn't go, but want to know what was said....its a shame you weren't there because its too long winded to put down here. There was a video camera set up for some of it, but I don't know what the long term intention is for the recording. For those more interested I suggest you contact TVR/Autocraft and enquire. Anyway the basics are that the AJP6 design other than basic layout is a very different engine to the Speed 6 produced by TVR. There were 2 AJP6 engines one whole and one broken down to the major components and one Speed 6 engine's major components. The visible differences were startling. From the crank, the rods, the block, to the head. And then the design and build of the valve train geometry all are different to the TVR Speed 6 result. The original design even catered for ease of maintenance access to oil filter and alternator/power steering pump belt replacement. Attributes lost on the Speed 6 design. Mellings interpretation for the reasoning behind the changes were given from his point of view. He intimated that it all comes down to contracts, design ownership and legalities. I got the impression Melling definitely favours the AJP8 over the AJP6 (Speed6). The 8 is a much better engine altogether. He wanted it to be a 4 valve head instead of the 2 upon which TVR insisted. TVR/Autocraft will replace just about everything in the head apart from the cams with new re-designed components and modify the oil feed. There are other internal mods involved aswell. Even tho its going to take sometime to get my car back, I am very pleased that it is with TVR Craft who have the support of MCD. I look forward to next summer and the next and the next and the.....I am sure you get my point...! Rgds G

Glad you felt the journey was worthwhile. Hope all goes well with the rebuild and you have many enjoyable miles with your fresh updated engine.

[bilton_d]

i often wonder why TVR didn't do a 4 valve version of the V8 space?
As a follow on if it was thought off at day 1 what would the chances be of getting heads made up?
That would then be one hell of an engine

[JR]

bilton_d said:

i often wonder why TVR didn't do a 4 valve version of the V8 space? As a follow on if it was thought off at day 1 what would the chances be of getting heads made up? That would then be one hell of an engine

Fairly straight forward from an engineering point of view but the Intellectual Property rights are a big stumbling block. Also ask yourself would Al Melling want to play ball with the Al Mellng Speed 8 car nearing production?

[rev-erend]

Autocraft have no association with TVR - Al Melling made that very clear.

THe video camera was used soley for projection - stuff on the table was projected onto the big screen

[Steve_T]

There was a second one to my left Rev', but I think that may well be there to record exactly what Al said as a CYA measure. I'd doubt that the footage would be made available.

Steve.

[gerjo]

Still doesn't answer the main issues: is the basic Speed 6 design flawed? Do the TVR modifications, carried out recently, correct these mistakes? Is the Speed 6 a reliable engine these days?

[wedgie]

gerjo said:

Still doesn't answer the main issues: is the basic Speed 6 design flawed? Do the TVR modifications, carried out recently, correct these mistakes? Is the Speed 6 a reliable engine these days?

As someone pondering on replacing the Chim with a Tuscan, this is exactly what I want to know too - [preferably without all the personal abuse and ner-na-na-ner-ner attitude that has sullied other posts.

I think we all know that the early S6 was a tad unreliable to say the least, but what exactly has changed?

[350matt]

gerjo said:

Still doesn't answer the main issues: is the basic Speed 6 design flawed? Do the TVR modifications, carried out recently, correct these mistakes? Is the Speed 6 a reliable engine these days?

uumm yes it did
The basic design of the TVR speed six is flawed
Al Mellings AJP 6 (original design) was not

What modifications are these? TVR engines are still going pop - witness Sagaris blow-ups and recent rebuilds on Tuscans if they were correcting the problems this wouldn't keep recurring would it.

Without correction of the points raised in AL Mellings' talk the engine, will not be reliable

Matt

[VYT]

350matt said:

uumm yes it did The basic design of the TVR speed six is flawed Al Mellings AJP 6 (original design) was not What modifications are these? TVR engines are still going pop - witness Sagaris blow-ups and recent rebuilds on Tuscans if they were correcting the problems this wouldn't keep recurring would it. Without correction of the points raised in AL Mellings' talk the engine, will not be reliable Matt

Hmm, Mr Melling is certainly a well respected designer but any designer will know that it is impossible to say the Mellings AJP6 was not flawed if only a handful have been made and presumably never run to 50000+ miles?

Wish I could have been at the talk because the technical details may have helped me form an opinion, but living in Oz made that impossible.

I am not saying Al Melling is wrong far from it, but IF TVR Craft have a real fix then I would have thought it was worth their while to have picked up a cheap Tuscan / Cerbie, modified the engine a gone out there and put some miles on it. If the rebuild cost is £5k then this could have been done for £20k - £30k all in. Assuming there are 3000 S6 out there? that seems a small investment to ensure a flood of orders.

My only reservation is that there is NO DATA to say that TVR craft will do a better job than TVR do with a new S6. A good many S6 are now well over the 12k miles that TVR craft guarantee. I understand why they have that guarantee but if they are going to prove the worth of the upgrade then they need to generate the data to show that all things being equal their fix does not go bang in 15k miles. Until that data is available are we not just putting in development miles for TVR Craft which is a big complaint that we have against TVR. My concern is that a lot of cars are modified only to find that the same or other issues are still there, that would be really bad.

This is not intended to be negative. I just wish they, (TVR or TVR Craft or SP6 Engine Tech), would bite the bullet do the testing so that we know what to expect.
I guess to some extent we know where the TVR S6 is, it can finish LeMans pretty reliably. I think it has been said that 100 miles on the track are worth about 1000 on the road, (although I wonder if that equates to the way some TVR's are driven?), in that case 25 - 30k miles would be expected of a well looked after and properly built TVR S6?

Give me data that is all I ask.

That said I wish TVR craft all the best in this venture

This comes form a TVR enthusiast having owned RV8 AJP8 and S6 TVR's. Loved them all but an AJP8 in my T350 would be my ideal combination.

Oh, just remember that 3 years ago the AJP8 had an awful reputation on Pistonheads, had to be rebuilt every 25k, we now know that to be untrue in the majority of cases.