Imfo please about 1/4mile run? what to expect....
Discussion
I'm possibly attending a run what you brung event at Santa pod in the next month or so, this will be my first event with the Monaro!!
Now im no stranger to running at santapod, all be this in a 4x4 sierra cosworth.. so its a little different, my best ever time with said vehicle was 13.4sec.
Now i've looked around the net, in particular LS1.com and alot of people claim that, well let me quote a typical sort of thread reply,
''5.7L LS1 , 6 speed manual , layed down a 13.8 sec pass at eastern creek @ 99mph bone stock , since then i have spent $99 on a K & N filter , $29 on a monaro CAI , $1500 on a 4 into 1 extractors and high flow dual 2.5" cat back system, and another $200 worth of dyno time, tuning it with Ls1 edit.''
Would you agree that thats pretty much similar spec to a 2004 CV8 with the Linden Stage II & wortec remap?
Im just trying to get an advance gauge of what time i should realistically be able to run, it certainly feels liek a 13sec car & alot quicker that the cosworth ever was...
So any ideas? has anyone on this forum ever ran their Monaro/ Commodore up a strip? what sort of times/mods did you get? whats the best lauch? with or without traction control etc?
Thanks in advance chappies! I know its yet another question from 'MCD' but this could be a good discussion point!
Cheers,
Mike
I seem to remember (edit : it wasn't uk_hsv.. I'll try to work out who) came down to Shakey earlier this year... and wouldn't stop going up the strip..
He should be able to help you out!
slinky
587racing.com
>> Edited by slinky on Monday 15th August 10:59
He should be able to help you out!
slinky
587racing.com
>> Edited by slinky on Monday 15th August 10:59
I think you will struggle to match the US times, as quite often their tracks must be a lot sticker than here.
I'd guess that if you broke into the 13's, you would be doing pretty good.
A heavy car, and 2wd are your enemy. It may be a lot quicker on the road, than your 1/4 suggests because of this.
For Comparison, ive seen several E46 M3's run at different venues. Fastest Ive seen is about 13.8s @ around 100mph.
They are about 1700kgs, with 340bhp give or take a bit.
I'd guess that if you broke into the 13's, you would be doing pretty good.
A heavy car, and 2wd are your enemy. It may be a lot quicker on the road, than your 1/4 suggests because of this.
For Comparison, ive seen several E46 M3's run at different venues. Fastest Ive seen is about 13.8s @ around 100mph.
They are about 1700kgs, with 340bhp give or take a bit.
Slinky, MCD,
The guy your thinking about is SS_UTE, (Matt). He has run a 14.01s @ 101mph in his ute.
Mods are about the same as MCD is looking at, but UTE struggles with traction being a bit light on the rear.
I have also ran a 14.6 @ 102 mph with 245RWKW.
But (and here's the excuses:
I wasn't intending to run so I had just re-fuelled (full tank, not Optimax), I still had shopping in the boot coupled with chairs, tools and other crap so the car was probably 200Kg overweight for racing. Then I bogged it down badly (60ft time of 2.7 secs). And I only got one run before the rain came down. I can see easy 13's with mine (HSV GTS 300), but need to get it on the track again.
MCD: I reckon you should look at high 13's as being the initial aim and take it from there. Analysing your split times and looking inwards about how you felt the car and you performed and you will find improvements.
The aim is to get a sub 2 sec 60 foot time for the best launches, with Monaro, (stupidly high 1st gear and about 380hp +) I would guess you should be looking at a 2000 to 2500 rpm launch. Practice on the street, (I didn't say that!), but expect the track to be much stickier.
Oh' also this is a no brainer! TRACTION OFF.
The guy your thinking about is SS_UTE, (Matt). He has run a 14.01s @ 101mph in his ute.
Mods are about the same as MCD is looking at, but UTE struggles with traction being a bit light on the rear.
I have also ran a 14.6 @ 102 mph with 245RWKW.
But (and here's the excuses:
I wasn't intending to run so I had just re-fuelled (full tank, not Optimax), I still had shopping in the boot coupled with chairs, tools and other crap so the car was probably 200Kg overweight for racing. Then I bogged it down badly (60ft time of 2.7 secs). And I only got one run before the rain came down. I can see easy 13's with mine (HSV GTS 300), but need to get it on the track again.
MCD: I reckon you should look at high 13's as being the initial aim and take it from there. Analysing your split times and looking inwards about how you felt the car and you performed and you will find improvements.
The aim is to get a sub 2 sec 60 foot time for the best launches, with Monaro, (stupidly high 1st gear and about 380hp +) I would guess you should be looking at a 2000 to 2500 rpm launch. Practice on the street, (I didn't say that!), but expect the track to be much stickier.
Oh' also this is a no brainer! TRACTION OFF.
If its any help or guidance i ran my ute up Santa Pod at the Mopar nationals a few weeks back.
Its got a wortec re-map and a ripshifter, so its around 370bhp.
Best time was 13.9 seconds @ 100 mph. All 5 runs had a terminal speed of 100 mph but were a slower ET.
Biggest problem was clutch control off the line. Not enough revs and it bogged down, too much revs and i had massive axle tramp as the track was so sticky. Wheelspin was virtually impossible with the track conditions as they were on that day.
A lower ratio diff would have been of significant benefit. As its an SS ute it runs a 3.45 diff. Is your monaro a CV8 or a VXR? VXR's have a lower ratio diff, 3.7 i belive.
I think i may be able to squeeze another 10th or 2 if i practised launching enough, but i'm convinced that the ripshifter is worth a couple of tenths too.
Matt (ss ute)did a 14.1 in his ute with a similar tune but with a good exhaust but no ripshifter. Matt, you know you need one
Hope this helps
Its got a wortec re-map and a ripshifter, so its around 370bhp.
Best time was 13.9 seconds @ 100 mph. All 5 runs had a terminal speed of 100 mph but were a slower ET.
Biggest problem was clutch control off the line. Not enough revs and it bogged down, too much revs and i had massive axle tramp as the track was so sticky. Wheelspin was virtually impossible with the track conditions as they were on that day.
A lower ratio diff would have been of significant benefit. As its an SS ute it runs a 3.45 diff. Is your monaro a CV8 or a VXR? VXR's have a lower ratio diff, 3.7 i belive.
I think i may be able to squeeze another 10th or 2 if i practised launching enough, but i'm convinced that the ripshifter is worth a couple of tenths too.
Matt (ss ute)did a 14.1 in his ute with a similar tune but with a good exhaust but no ripshifter. Matt, you know you need one
Hope this helps
Its a 2004 CV8 with....................
Linden Stage II/ headers decatted full system
HSV airbox, K&N, CS performance MAF pipe.
Wortec remap
I have dynopac print (abbey motorsport) from before the Wortech & MAF pipe showing 333BHP at wheels and 339LB torque.
Wortec suggested to Dan ( the previous owner) that with the MAF & remap its going to be around 350-360BHP at the hubs now? Im guessing 400BHP at the engine from that, would i be right??
I hope to get low 13s! To beat my 13.4 personal best would be good! (4x4 cossie running 340BHP at fly)But i take on board what you guys are saying, perhaps this wont be so, its confusing as the Monaro feels hugely quicker than the cossie, perhaps maybe not on the launch which i agree is critcal!
My daft question over traction control on/off was based on my watching Monaros at PVS smoking of from the line & hardly moving.. achieving 16sec quarters. i thought perhaps the traction control might help eliminate this... but at a 2000rpm launch things could be OK
Mike
Linden Stage II/ headers decatted full system
HSV airbox, K&N, CS performance MAF pipe.
Wortec remap
I have dynopac print (abbey motorsport) from before the Wortech & MAF pipe showing 333BHP at wheels and 339LB torque.
Wortec suggested to Dan ( the previous owner) that with the MAF & remap its going to be around 350-360BHP at the hubs now? Im guessing 400BHP at the engine from that, would i be right??
I hope to get low 13s! To beat my 13.4 personal best would be good! (4x4 cossie running 340BHP at fly)But i take on board what you guys are saying, perhaps this wont be so, its confusing as the Monaro feels hugely quicker than the cossie, perhaps maybe not on the launch which i agree is critcal!
My daft question over traction control on/off was based on my watching Monaros at PVS smoking of from the line & hardly moving.. achieving 16sec quarters. i thought perhaps the traction control might help eliminate this... but at a 2000rpm launch things could be OK
Mike
V8HSV said:
I wonder what a supercharged, 185 mph Monaro would do said he laying the bait
Top speed is irrelevant. Depends how much power you have, and how you can get it to the ground.
Traction is everything over the 1/4, and 2wd cars on road tyres just struggle so badly.
I would think you will be very very lucky to get under a 2s 60ft on road tyres. I'd think if you can get very close to 2s, its good.
I have a Camaro Z28 in Euro-spec which allegedly produced 284bhp but after changing the intake and exhaust runs a 13.8 at 105.3mph. Accordingly to the calculators, that means it's producing at least 325bhp. It's also an automatic using the leggy 2.73 rear end.
The Camaro is about 100kg lighter than the Monaro but as noted above, traction is the problem. Too much gas and the car will spin the rear tyres uselessly. You'd be surprised how easy it is to lose traction and how hard it is to regain it. My 13.8 was achieved by literally rolling the car off the line at around 2000rpm, achieving traction and then planting it. Too much gas and the loss of a lot of traction sent it into the 14's.
American tracks do tend to be stickier as they are prepped properly which they only do for professional racing over here, in general.
The addition of a Ripper shifter will have no effect on your time except in the sense that it may mean you don't miss a shift. I had this "discussion" with a drag racer on Corvette Forum after I fitted a short shifter to my Z06, whose times up the strip speak for themselves (he runs 11's stock) and though logic might suggest you're changing gear quicker, I am advised that the shift speed is governed by the lower "leg" speed and not the upper "shaft" speed.
From most of the RWYB's I've been to, the manuals tend to be slower than the automatics. The automatics have a computer to max out every gear and change at exactly the right time. The manuals rely upon something called a human and the times can be quite consistently slower. I've seen a Firehawk and a Mustang Cobra who couldn't get out of the 15's. From that point of view, not missing the shift would be important. In fact, I nearly claimed a Viper GTS victory as he missed third but on that run I chose to over-egg it and lost traction for a third of the track. LOL. I did get my Viper GTS victory but only against his girlfriend. LOL.
BTW, I've seen a newish M3 running 12's at Santa Pod.
The Camaro is about 100kg lighter than the Monaro but as noted above, traction is the problem. Too much gas and the car will spin the rear tyres uselessly. You'd be surprised how easy it is to lose traction and how hard it is to regain it. My 13.8 was achieved by literally rolling the car off the line at around 2000rpm, achieving traction and then planting it. Too much gas and the loss of a lot of traction sent it into the 14's.
American tracks do tend to be stickier as they are prepped properly which they only do for professional racing over here, in general.
The addition of a Ripper shifter will have no effect on your time except in the sense that it may mean you don't miss a shift. I had this "discussion" with a drag racer on Corvette Forum after I fitted a short shifter to my Z06, whose times up the strip speak for themselves (he runs 11's stock) and though logic might suggest you're changing gear quicker, I am advised that the shift speed is governed by the lower "leg" speed and not the upper "shaft" speed.
From most of the RWYB's I've been to, the manuals tend to be slower than the automatics. The automatics have a computer to max out every gear and change at exactly the right time. The manuals rely upon something called a human and the times can be quite consistently slower. I've seen a Firehawk and a Mustang Cobra who couldn't get out of the 15's. From that point of view, not missing the shift would be important. In fact, I nearly claimed a Viper GTS victory as he missed third but on that run I chose to over-egg it and lost traction for a third of the track. LOL. I did get my Viper GTS victory but only against his girlfriend. LOL.
BTW, I've seen a newish M3 running 12's at Santa Pod.
LuS1fer, i have to disagree on the benefit of a ripshifter. There is simply no way you can get from 2nd to third in particular, as quickly with the stock shifter as you can with the ripshifter. The time from disengageing the clutch to re-engagement IS quicker.
Agreed on the benefit of not missing gears.
By ripshifter, i dont mean a short throw version of the stock arrangement, but a proper Ripshifter.
OK, i'm biased, cos i sell em, but don't take my word for it, next time we meet, (we met @ billing earlier this year) take my ute for a drive and see (or feel!) the difference.
Agreed on the benefit of not missing gears.
By ripshifter, i dont mean a short throw version of the stock arrangement, but a proper Ripshifter.
OK, i'm biased, cos i sell em, but don't take my word for it, next time we meet, (we met @ billing earlier this year) take my ute for a drive and see (or feel!) the difference.
roger440 said:
LuS1fer, i have to disagree on the benefit of a ripshifter. There is simply no way you can get from 2nd to third in particular, as quickly with the stock shifter as you can with the ripshifter. The time from disengageing the clutch to re-engagement IS quicker.
Agreed on the benefit of not missing gears.
By ripshifter, i dont mean a short throw version of the stock arrangement, but a proper Ripshifter.
OK, i'm biased, cos i sell em, but don't take my word for it, next time we meet, (we met @ billing earlier this year) take my ute for a drive and see (or feel!) the difference.
I have a Breathless shifter in the Z06. I have previously argued black and blue with the drag racer who said it made no difference but eventually had to concede that I think he's right. My argument was that moving my hand from point A to point B takes longer with a longer shifter than it does with a short one. The piece of the shifter that goes down into the socket is a fixed length and can only move at a certain speed. I don't know the principles or construction of the Ripper but imagine a lever with a fixed pivot point. It matters not how long the lever is if the pivot point and lower part of the shifter remain constant. A bit like fitting a smaller steering wheel doesn't change anything in the steering mechanism. Whilst the distance you move your arm may be less, the speed of the lower part of the lever is the same as the pivot point remains unchanged.
Of course, I had to take the logic to extremes and postulate a lever that stretched up to the sky where moving the top of the lever half a mile would mean the lower part took longer too. I still think I'm right about that. LOL. However, I was cried down by many contributors to the forum in question as you don't get sky-high shifters and I have never ever seen anyone in the US claim a reduction in the quarter by fitting a shifter and they change them like you or I would change shoes. LOL.
Incidentally, the Breathless shifter is a million times better than the stock Z06 plank of wood and worth it just to improve the ease of changing gear. I imagine the same is true of the Ripshifter.
As for a quarter mile time on a 10 second 0-100. The stock Z06 does 0-100 in 9.9 and that does the quarter in 12.7 but it will depend on a lot of factors like gearing and aerodynamics but mainly traction.
I am with "Roger440" on this one, every car fitted with the "Ripshifter" has run faster at the strip......
The arrangement of the stock Holden shifter has two pivot points the Ripshifter replaces all of the origional shift and has one pivot point.
If you search ls1.com.au for the Ripshifter you will find many time slips to prove the shifter will reduce your times!
Ripshifter cars hold the following Australian records.
1.Fastest M6 shifter in australia 10.3 @138 mph.
2.First and only manual shifter to run a ten sec 1/4 mile pass.
3.First M6 N/A 346 10 sec pass.
4.Highest Miles per hour outright for LS1.
5.First 11 sec pass Cam only.
6.Fastest Unopened Quarter Mile Pass.
7.Highest Unopened Miles per hour.
8.Highest N/A 346 miles per hour.
>> Edited by uk hsv on Wednesday 17th August 07:31
The arrangement of the stock Holden shifter has two pivot points the Ripshifter replaces all of the origional shift and has one pivot point.
If you search ls1.com.au for the Ripshifter you will find many time slips to prove the shifter will reduce your times!
Ripshifter cars hold the following Australian records.
1.Fastest M6 shifter in australia 10.3 @138 mph.
2.First and only manual shifter to run a ten sec 1/4 mile pass.
3.First M6 N/A 346 10 sec pass.
4.Highest Miles per hour outright for LS1.
5.First 11 sec pass Cam only.
6.Fastest Unopened Quarter Mile Pass.
7.Highest Unopened Miles per hour.
8.Highest N/A 346 miles per hour.
>> Edited by uk hsv on Wednesday 17th August 07:31
Having just had a Rip Shifter fitted I cannot yet offer any hard times as evidence but I would bet a sizable sum that times would be improved.
A series of roundabouts near where I live with short dual carriageway sections linking them make for great street drag getaways all the 'boys' want to race my rumbling beasty (all Tlight controlled) and I must admit (subjectively)the RipShifter action has meant faster, more confident and cleaner progress.
I also believe the confidence offered by the RipShifter means the average driver would be more agressive with the gear change and achieve more consistently accurate and fast changes imrpoving the drivers average times
It would be interesting to race two cars with equal engine/tyre set ups one with a standard gear change and one with a RipShifter.
A series of roundabouts near where I live with short dual carriageway sections linking them make for great street drag getaways all the 'boys' want to race my rumbling beasty (all Tlight controlled) and I must admit (subjectively)the RipShifter action has meant faster, more confident and cleaner progress.
I also believe the confidence offered by the RipShifter means the average driver would be more agressive with the gear change and achieve more consistently accurate and fast changes imrpoving the drivers average times
It would be interesting to race two cars with equal engine/tyre set ups one with a standard gear change and one with a RipShifter.
[quote]Having just had a Rip Shifter fitted I cannot yet offer any hard times as evidence but I would bet a sizable sum that times would be improved.
A series of roundabouts near where I live with short dual carriageway sections linking them make for great street drag getaways all the 'boys' want to race my rumbling beasty (all Tlight controlled) and I must admit (subjectively)the RipShifter action has meant faster, more confident and cleaner progress.
I also believe the confidence offered by the RipShifter means the average driver would be more agressive with the gear change and achieve more consistently accurate and fast changes imrpoving the drivers average times
It would be interesting to race two cars with equal engine/tyre set ups one with a standard gear change and one with a RipShifter.[/quote]
Totally agree!
A series of roundabouts near where I live with short dual carriageway sections linking them make for great street drag getaways all the 'boys' want to race my rumbling beasty (all Tlight controlled) and I must admit (subjectively)the RipShifter action has meant faster, more confident and cleaner progress.
I also believe the confidence offered by the RipShifter means the average driver would be more agressive with the gear change and achieve more consistently accurate and fast changes imrpoving the drivers average times
It would be interesting to race two cars with equal engine/tyre set ups one with a standard gear change and one with a RipShifter.[/quote]
Totally agree!
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