What ECU to go for? Most likely Emerald?!
Discussion
Hi all,
Been doing some serious reading up on the forums and getting opinions.
My engine is currently being rebuilt with Mat Smith - engine is supercharged, boring to a 4.8 with forged pistons. I have decided to put on a new ECU for various reasons.
Mat Smith is familiar with Emerald, he can install it all for me and as Emerald are just down the road will take it to them for mapping/rolling road sessions.
Tempting. I am just a little put off by it not being fully sequential and the fact previous owner was running on Emerald (but the older K3) and had lots of problems/couldn't get a nice map despite seeing various people.
But what about other options, Power's MBE or Lloyd's Canems? I know there are others but narrowed it down to these three for now.
Consensus seems to be from my research you need to consider the following, on deciding which ECU to go for:
- There isn't much gain in fully vs semi sequential in the RV8. Potentially some lower emissions at idle, maybe slightly smoother at low revs!? But seems emerald running semi sequential still has been smooth for many
- The main factor in how good the ECU is, seems to come down to the experience of the person installing that ECU and the person mapping it
- Aftermarket support/ease of accessing maps/tuners. Emerald seems to be used by many tuners around where I am. Is the Power's MBE locked to prevent tweaking by anyone but Power??
What I want from my ECU:
1) A smooth drive on the road at lower revs, nice idle and clean starts. Put your foot down and it goes like stink.
2) Should be able to pass an MOT!!!
3) Good after market support/ease of accessing maps to resolve problems
3) Decent (ish) economy
I am just keen to hear people's experience of what ECU they are running in their Chim's and what they are happy/unhappy with.
Been doing some serious reading up on the forums and getting opinions.
My engine is currently being rebuilt with Mat Smith - engine is supercharged, boring to a 4.8 with forged pistons. I have decided to put on a new ECU for various reasons.
Mat Smith is familiar with Emerald, he can install it all for me and as Emerald are just down the road will take it to them for mapping/rolling road sessions.
Tempting. I am just a little put off by it not being fully sequential and the fact previous owner was running on Emerald (but the older K3) and had lots of problems/couldn't get a nice map despite seeing various people.
But what about other options, Power's MBE or Lloyd's Canems? I know there are others but narrowed it down to these three for now.
Consensus seems to be from my research you need to consider the following, on deciding which ECU to go for:
- There isn't much gain in fully vs semi sequential in the RV8. Potentially some lower emissions at idle, maybe slightly smoother at low revs!? But seems emerald running semi sequential still has been smooth for many
- The main factor in how good the ECU is, seems to come down to the experience of the person installing that ECU and the person mapping it
- Aftermarket support/ease of accessing maps/tuners. Emerald seems to be used by many tuners around where I am. Is the Power's MBE locked to prevent tweaking by anyone but Power??
What I want from my ECU:
1) A smooth drive on the road at lower revs, nice idle and clean starts. Put your foot down and it goes like stink.
2) Should be able to pass an MOT!!!
3) Good after market support/ease of accessing maps to resolve problems
3) Decent (ish) economy
I am just keen to hear people's experience of what ECU they are running in their Chim's and what they are happy/unhappy with.
Good maps take lots of time to get right - manufacturers don't spend the resources on these things for nothing - this coupled with poor physical installations are the issues behind the vast majority of problems with aftermarket ecu installs.
A fellower TVRer has installed Emerald in their V6 S (2.9 Colon) and their V8 (3.9 RV8) and got them set up at Emerald. They are very satisifed with the results. Their cars are regularly used all year round.
I'm going Emerald when the V8 is refreshed.
A fellower TVRer has installed Emerald in their V6 S (2.9 Colon) and their V8 (3.9 RV8) and got them set up at Emerald. They are very satisifed with the results. Their cars are regularly used all year round.
I'm going Emerald when the V8 is refreshed.
Edited by mk1fan on Monday 24th October 19:13
Don’t let emerald map it , mine was a complete bag of s
te , didn’t Idle, didn’t use the closed loop fuelling , get jools to map it
In the end I dumped the emerald and went motec M150 , more features , dual lambdas, sequential injection, dual knock sensors , traction control, and drive by wire
And forget Canems a happy shopper ecu !
te , didn’t Idle, didn’t use the closed loop fuelling , get jools to map it In the end I dumped the emerald and went motec M150 , more features , dual lambdas, sequential injection, dual knock sensors , traction control, and drive by wire
And forget Canems a happy shopper ecu !
Edited by hoofa on Monday 24th October 20:30
Edited by hoofa on Monday 24th October 20:31
COG was a victim of being an early adopter I think, though if the stories of how he was treated are true it wasn't happy reading. Later canems are apparently miles better. I converted a few of the early canems over to emerald, but haven't done one for a while so later customers must be happy with the cars now.
I had a Chimaera from 2017-19 that had received the Lloyds Canems conversion in 2016... It started more easily and ran very smoothly when warm, but I didn't like the elevated idle speed when cold, 1500 rpm or more. The stepper motor was eliminated and cold idle controlled by a valve, which unfortunately would contaminate with oil fumes and require regular cleaning. Economy was better than my previous 4.0 litre too.
I really liked the ability to connect to the ECU with a USB lead from my laptop. You are able to view all the map and real time sensor outputs which helps with fault finding. You can change as many settings as you need, I adjusted the cold idle back to 1000 rpm as soon as the water temp, reached 40C rather than the 60C it had been set at.
It stayed elevated too long for my liking, in fact idle speed can be set to whatever you want.
The wiring conversion didn't like quite as robust though. The entire engine loom was replaced but the wires were covered with that split black corrugated plastic you see, rather than properly wrapped; longevity may be an issue.
Mine had been set up with a temporary lambda sensor added to the Y piece and then removed and the originals removed and blanked off, so it was operating in closed loop, a cheaper install I seem to remember.
Edit: Wrong year, doh... It was already installed by Lloyds for the previous owner when I bought it. Cost about £2500 i think, in 2016.
I really liked the ability to connect to the ECU with a USB lead from my laptop. You are able to view all the map and real time sensor outputs which helps with fault finding. You can change as many settings as you need, I adjusted the cold idle back to 1000 rpm as soon as the water temp, reached 40C rather than the 60C it had been set at.
It stayed elevated too long for my liking, in fact idle speed can be set to whatever you want.The wiring conversion didn't like quite as robust though. The entire engine loom was replaced but the wires were covered with that split black corrugated plastic you see, rather than properly wrapped; longevity may be an issue.
Mine had been set up with a temporary lambda sensor added to the Y piece and then removed and the originals removed and blanked off, so it was operating in closed loop, a cheaper install I seem to remember.
Edit: Wrong year, doh... It was already installed by Lloyds for the previous owner when I bought it. Cost about £2500 i think, in 2016.
Edited by sixor8 on Tuesday 25th October 11:15
LLoyds offered ( home install kits )
For at least sometime so some of these might well have ended up as poor installs and problems ensued.
A very experienced engineer friend installed a canams this way with various wiring diagrams and the odd phone call, he did have a few problems but none he couldn’t overcome.
I never got to know how well it all worked over time as sadly the owner and the car moved on.
The base map he got the car running with was a bit rough but he got it to LLoyds and they successfully mapped it ( as you would expect) and it ran well.
COG was always going to test the ECU capabilities to the max that’s a fact
It’s the same old adage “ chose a quality ecu and a mapper respected for using and installing it”
some say you should choose one with a mapper close to you but in all honesty if it’s mapped and rolling roaded / road driving to get the map spot on then you won’t need to re map it for years if you look after the car.
The few people who actually offer ecu swaps on TVR cars know both well.
They have base maps that have been built up and tweaked for various tunes and engine sizes so your in safe hands.
Powers are another offering bespoke options and using what is a very robust MBE ecu that is another very safe option.
If you go anywhere Matt Smith your in safe hands in a very similar way so all the options above are to be recommended I’d say.
The RV8 is not a complicated engine for an ecu to control unless you are tuning it to the max but for what most owners require all these options cover it handsomely and can be a eureka moment in longevity of life and usage of your car given the new parts and sensors coupled to a new wiring harness that really brings that main engine wiring loom into the modern world. Reliable.
Expensive but a great great thing to do if you love the sound of perfect tuning.
For at least sometime so some of these might well have ended up as poor installs and problems ensued.
A very experienced engineer friend installed a canams this way with various wiring diagrams and the odd phone call, he did have a few problems but none he couldn’t overcome.
I never got to know how well it all worked over time as sadly the owner and the car moved on.
The base map he got the car running with was a bit rough but he got it to LLoyds and they successfully mapped it ( as you would expect) and it ran well.
COG was always going to test the ECU capabilities to the max that’s a fact
It’s the same old adage “ chose a quality ecu and a mapper respected for using and installing it”
some say you should choose one with a mapper close to you but in all honesty if it’s mapped and rolling roaded / road driving to get the map spot on then you won’t need to re map it for years if you look after the car.
The few people who actually offer ecu swaps on TVR cars know both well.
They have base maps that have been built up and tweaked for various tunes and engine sizes so your in safe hands.
Powers are another offering bespoke options and using what is a very robust MBE ecu that is another very safe option.
If you go anywhere Matt Smith your in safe hands in a very similar way so all the options above are to be recommended I’d say.
The RV8 is not a complicated engine for an ecu to control unless you are tuning it to the max but for what most owners require all these options cover it handsomely and can be a eureka moment in longevity of life and usage of your car given the new parts and sensors coupled to a new wiring harness that really brings that main engine wiring loom into the modern world. Reliable.
Expensive but a great great thing to do if you love the sound of perfect tuning.
Sazwerk said:
Hi all,
Been doing some serious reading up on the forums and getting opinions.
My engine is currently being rebuilt with Mat Smith - engine is supercharged, boring to a 4.8 with forged pistons. I have decided to put on a new ECU for various reasons.
Mat Smith is familiar with Emerald, he can install it all for me and as Emerald are just down the road will take it to them for mapping/rolling road sessions.
Tempting. I am just a little put off by it not being fully sequential and the fact previous owner was running on Emerald (but the older K3) and had lots of problems/couldn't get a nice map despite seeing various people.
But what about other options, Power's MBE or Lloyd's Canems? I know there are others but narrowed it down to these three for now.
Consensus seems to be from my research you need to consider the following, on deciding which ECU to go for:
- There isn't much gain in fully vs semi sequential in the RV8. Potentially some lower emissions at idle, maybe slightly smoother at low revs!? But seems emerald running semi sequential still has been smooth for many
- The main factor in how good the ECU is, seems to come down to the experience of the person installing that ECU and the person mapping it
- Aftermarket support/ease of accessing maps/tuners. Emerald seems to be used by many tuners around where I am. Is the Power's MBE locked to prevent tweaking by anyone but Power??
What I want from my ECU:
1) A smooth drive on the road at lower revs, nice idle and clean starts. Put your foot down and it goes like stink.
2) Should be able to pass an MOT!!!
3) Good after market support/ease of accessing maps to resolve problems
3) Decent (ish) economy
I am just keen to hear people's experience of what ECU they are running in their Chim's and what they are happy/unhappy with.
Hi Sam. I have sent you an email.Been doing some serious reading up on the forums and getting opinions.
My engine is currently being rebuilt with Mat Smith - engine is supercharged, boring to a 4.8 with forged pistons. I have decided to put on a new ECU for various reasons.
Mat Smith is familiar with Emerald, he can install it all for me and as Emerald are just down the road will take it to them for mapping/rolling road sessions.
Tempting. I am just a little put off by it not being fully sequential and the fact previous owner was running on Emerald (but the older K3) and had lots of problems/couldn't get a nice map despite seeing various people.
But what about other options, Power's MBE or Lloyd's Canems? I know there are others but narrowed it down to these three for now.
Consensus seems to be from my research you need to consider the following, on deciding which ECU to go for:
- There isn't much gain in fully vs semi sequential in the RV8. Potentially some lower emissions at idle, maybe slightly smoother at low revs!? But seems emerald running semi sequential still has been smooth for many
- The main factor in how good the ECU is, seems to come down to the experience of the person installing that ECU and the person mapping it
- Aftermarket support/ease of accessing maps/tuners. Emerald seems to be used by many tuners around where I am. Is the Power's MBE locked to prevent tweaking by anyone but Power??
What I want from my ECU:
1) A smooth drive on the road at lower revs, nice idle and clean starts. Put your foot down and it goes like stink.
2) Should be able to pass an MOT!!!
3) Good after market support/ease of accessing maps to resolve problems
3) Decent (ish) economy
I am just keen to hear people's experience of what ECU they are running in their Chim's and what they are happy/unhappy with.
Cheers
To echo others, its the skill of the mapper that will get you what you want. I have run KMS for the last 10 years but recently replaced it with Emerald (3 switchable maps, normal, MoT and 'pops & bangs') for my rebuilt engine. Both ECUs were fitted and mapped by Joolz. Thoroughly recommended. When Joolz does an install he removes all the old Lucas/TVR/Range rover wiring to the engine and replaces it with a custom loom to ensure reliability, and fits better throttle spindle bearings too. He also spends time on cold starts and actually driving the car to optimise the mapping.
I did have a mid-life remap on the KMS once by Lloyds (because I then lived nearby) which was fine but they seemed to lose interest when I tried to get them to follow up an idle valve problem that I eventually diagnosed myself as a poorly set TPS.
I did have a mid-life remap on the KMS once by Lloyds (because I then lived nearby) which was fine but they seemed to lose interest when I tried to get them to follow up an idle valve problem that I eventually diagnosed myself as a poorly set TPS.
lwt said:
To echo others, its the skill of the mapper that will get you what you want. I have run KMS for the last 10 years but recently replaced it with Emerald (3 switchable maps, normal, MoT and 'pops & bangs') for my rebuilt engine. Both ECUs were fitted and mapped by Joolz. Thoroughly recommended. When Joolz does an install he removes all the old Lucas/TVR/Range rover wiring to the engine and replaces it with a custom loom to ensure reliability, and fits better throttle spindle bearings too. He also spends time on cold starts and actually driving the car to optimise the mapping.
I did have a mid-life remap on the KMS once by Lloyds (because I then lived nearby) which was fine but they seemed to lose interest when I tried to get them to follow up an idle valve problem that I eventually diagnosed myself as a poorly set TPS.
I think I will get Mat Smith to do the install, wire it all in just had someone call me today to say the work they had done on emerald install with Mat Smith was of very very high quality. Then emerald can map it etc. I did have a mid-life remap on the KMS once by Lloyds (because I then lived nearby) which was fine but they seemed to lose interest when I tried to get them to follow up an idle valve problem that I eventually diagnosed myself as a poorly set TPS.
If any issues it sounds like Joolz is also a good back up for mapping too!
simple as Perfectly happy with Speeduino here. All your requirements you've listed are really down to how good the map, is not the ECU itself. They are all very similar in capability but different in cost, especially if you DIY.
I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
Edited by Fenderer on Wednesday 2nd November 13:33
Fenderer said:
Perfectly happy with Speeduino here. All your requirements you've listed are really down to how good the map, is not the ECU itself. They are all very similar in capability but different in cost, especially if you DIY.
I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
I’d agree with all of this but remember the Tvr guru’s who offer this upgrade have base maps tweaked and ready for 4.0 450 and 5.0 cars.I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
Edited by Fenderer on Wednesday 2nd November 13:33
The general reason why mappers keep your car for a number of weeks is to install then test cold start ( once a day ) town and motorway running let alone rolling road tuning. I’d estimate an experienced installer takes more of his time mapping than he does installing.
Fenderer said:
Perfectly happy with Speeduino here. All your requirements you've listed are really down to how good the map, is not the ECU itself. They are all very similar in capability but different in cost, especially if you DIY.
I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
You have a point there but if your the kind of owner that dont notice losing 12% or 1 cyl of the engine then you probably wont appreciate full seq fuel benefits anyway I certainly wouldn't worry about fully sequential on an engine that you can barely notice when it drops a cylinder. Wasted Spark is good enough for any Chimaera. Getting a perfect map is the challenge and you aren't going to do that in 1 rolling road session. The more you can do yourself the better.. Getting things like warm up enrichment, afterstart enrichment, and Idle control working perfectly is particularly challenging and you need to get really stuck in to the detail yourself to get the best out of it. Thrilled with how my car is performing now. It's light years better than standard, and I haven't even gone much further yet on ignition mapping than replicating the standard Lucas distributor map.
Edited by Fenderer on Wednesday 2nd November 13:33
however full seq will tighten up low speed drivabilty/behaviour and secondly emissions and MPG but hey its a V8 so secondly being correct 
is it worth the faff? .. only the owner can decide that one 
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