What's the minimum 0-60 you'd accept for a white good car?
Discussion
I'm looking for an A to B car but with enough power to safely overtake and cruise on the motorway. It seems a lot of cars have very slow 0 to 60 times according to Autotrader of slower than 12 seconds. I'm looking around the 1.4-1.8 engine sizes and quite a few Astra's and Focus' have a 10.9 0 to 60. Would that be enough to do safe overtakes and get out its own way? Maybe some spirited driving?
Maybe it’s down to the roads I frequent and the cars I’ve owned in the last decade or so, but I find that driving anything with a 0-62 of around 10s or higher just feel a bit too lethargic for most country lane overtakes (unless long, straight and clear, obviously).
The last two cars I’ve driven that were slower than this were a 2007 Suzuki Swift 1.3 (11.0s) and a Honda Jazz 1.4EX CVT (11.2s) were slow enough that I simply didn’t even entertain the idea of making progress, I just drove sedately and economically, which they were both well suited to.
The wife’s Passat GTE Advance seems about on the head for “quick enough” for most circumstances, with its PHEV assistance of immediate torque, and 0-62 of 7.6s which IMO doesn’t tell the full story of its on the move acceleration (when in GTE mode anyway).
The last two cars I’ve driven that were slower than this were a 2007 Suzuki Swift 1.3 (11.0s) and a Honda Jazz 1.4EX CVT (11.2s) were slow enough that I simply didn’t even entertain the idea of making progress, I just drove sedately and economically, which they were both well suited to.
The wife’s Passat GTE Advance seems about on the head for “quick enough” for most circumstances, with its PHEV assistance of immediate torque, and 0-62 of 7.6s which IMO doesn’t tell the full story of its on the move acceleration (when in GTE mode anyway).
Edited by paradigital on Tuesday 25th October 18:39
I have a 1.6 diesel Astra(it’s a 136bhp model, I think the basic one is 110), I think the 0-60 is about 9.5 seconds, it’s got plenty of power for everyday driving, and can overtake quickly and safely. Of course being diesel it has a lot of torque which helps.
I’ve driven a Focus diesel with about 110bhp, and though not as punchy as the Astra it could still overtake without any issue, unpopular opinion but I thought the Astra is a significant better all round car than the Focus.
Both the Astra and focus are 2017 cars,
I’ve driven a Focus diesel with about 110bhp, and though not as punchy as the Astra it could still overtake without any issue, unpopular opinion but I thought the Astra is a significant better all round car than the Focus.
Both the Astra and focus are 2017 cars,
In gear torque is what's more relevant to overtaking and having some guts to get moving, once you're on the move. Also depends on the kind of overtaking you're thinking. Passing on the motorway is one thing, passing on a country lane is another.
My daily car does 0-60 in 16 seconds but when you're on the move, it doesn't feel lacking as it's got decent torque.
My other half drove a 1.6 diesel Focus which had the worst 1st gear, was just stunted and felt slow from a start but in gear it drove really well.
My daily car does 0-60 in 16 seconds but when you're on the move, it doesn't feel lacking as it's got decent torque.
My other half drove a 1.6 diesel Focus which had the worst 1st gear, was just stunted and felt slow from a start but in gear it drove really well.
I'd have no problem driving a white-goods car that took 10-12 seconds to get to 60, but given the choice I'd certainly rather not! I think for me a car goes from feeling slow to feeling adequate at something like 100bhp/tonne which tends to result in a 0-60 of around 10 seconds.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 25th October 18:58
My commute is for the most part sweeping B-roads (in fact most of them aren't even B-roads, but you get the picture). More often than not I do the commute in a 1.3 Yaris with all of 99hp and a 0-60 of - if Autotrader is to be believed - 11.7 seconds. Overtakes are a frequent and undramatic affair - yes I need to use the gearbox and no it's doesn't afford the same opportunities to 'make progress' as a 335d would, but it's enough that I don't have to be stuck behind dawdlers. I suppose it helps that the roads are always quiet. With a reasonably tall 6th gear it's really quite good on the motorway for such a small car - considerably better on fuel than my D5-engined Volvo. On that basis I think something with a 10s 0-60mph time will be absolutely fine unless you're Vin Diesel.
Last few vehicles we've had have been 130 - 170 bhp turbo diesel. I'd say I was far more content in the 150 + range in terms of every day use. We have a 150 tdi Kuga and although it isn't blistering, I've rarely found it lacking in terms of getting up to speed around town or on a slip road. The beauty of a modern diesel is if I do, I'll pay £250 to one of the many reputable tuners to likely add another 40-50bhp.
kambites said:
I'd have no problem driving a white-goods car that took 10-12 seconds to get to 60, but given the choice I'd certainly rather not! I think for me a car goes from feeling slow to feeling adequate at something like 100bhp/tonne which tends to result in a 0-60 of around 10 seconds.
One of my cars does 0-60 in 5s another about 15s ( I think ) the “slow” one can be great fun going much slower than the fast one Edited by kambites on Tuesday 25th October 18:58
My first car I don’t think would even do 60 mph but I had great fun as a 17 year old sliding it round bends and roundabouts ( a moggy )
Earthdweller said:
One of my cars does 0-60 in 5s another about 15s ( I think ) the “slow” one can be great fun going much slower than the fast one
My first car I don’t think would even do 60 mph but I had great fun as a 17 year old sliding it round bends and roundabouts ( a moggy )
Yeah, curiously in some ways I'd rather have a slow "fun" car than a slow daily driver, as long as it's "the right sort of slow". There's a lot of enjoyment to be had from a low powered, light, RWD car with low grip levels. My first car I don’t think would even do 60 mph but I had great fun as a 17 year old sliding it round bends and roundabouts ( a moggy )
Imo to really have confidence with Country Lane overtaking you need maybe 300bhp+ because some cars will not slow down for you or will even speed up and the geography of the roads means you might get one window to decide yes or no every few miles and it can be very brief when you do.
I think that proper overtaking on windy b roads can be really the most nerve racking thing you do on the road as if you don't do it well it can go very wrong and even when you do it right it feels like everyone you pass will call the police to report you for dangerous driving
I think that proper overtaking on windy b roads can be really the most nerve racking thing you do on the road as if you don't do it well it can go very wrong and even when you do it right it feels like everyone you pass will call the police to report you for dangerous driving
0-60 is a reasonable barometer for performance but don't take it too seriously.
For a start, it used to be common for manufacturers to test hot hatches fully laden with passengers and luggage to make the official 0-60 time slower. This would keep the car in a lower insurance group, making it easier to sell to younger drivers. The French used to do this all the time. My own car is meant to do 0-60 in 8.5 seconds according to the manufacturer, but when Autocar tested it they managed 6.9 seconds.
Some manufacturers, particularly in America, test their 0-60 times with a rolling start. This means that they don't start timing it from zero, which seems to miss the point somewhat.
Some cars are geared to just about hit 60 in 2nd to make the time quicker, while others might require a change up to 3rd.
A car with AWD will put its power down better than an equivalent 2WD car, making the 0-60 time quicker. But once on the move, the added weight will actually make it slower. The same can be said for cars with high-tech auto 'boxes versus manuals.
Electric cars get away quickly and don't have to worry about changing gear, making their 0-60 times impressive. Once on the move, however, a lot of the humdrum ones run out of puff very quickly.
Also, most 0-60 times now are actually 0-62 times, as 62mph is 100kph and that's what they use everywhere else. It may not sound like a big difference, but don't forget that extra 2mph might require another gear-change.
For a start, it used to be common for manufacturers to test hot hatches fully laden with passengers and luggage to make the official 0-60 time slower. This would keep the car in a lower insurance group, making it easier to sell to younger drivers. The French used to do this all the time. My own car is meant to do 0-60 in 8.5 seconds according to the manufacturer, but when Autocar tested it they managed 6.9 seconds.
Some manufacturers, particularly in America, test their 0-60 times with a rolling start. This means that they don't start timing it from zero, which seems to miss the point somewhat.
Some cars are geared to just about hit 60 in 2nd to make the time quicker, while others might require a change up to 3rd.
A car with AWD will put its power down better than an equivalent 2WD car, making the 0-60 time quicker. But once on the move, the added weight will actually make it slower. The same can be said for cars with high-tech auto 'boxes versus manuals.
Electric cars get away quickly and don't have to worry about changing gear, making their 0-60 times impressive. Once on the move, however, a lot of the humdrum ones run out of puff very quickly.
Also, most 0-60 times now are actually 0-62 times, as 62mph is 100kph and that's what they use everywhere else. It may not sound like a big difference, but don't forget that extra 2mph might require another gear-change.
Earthdweller said:
One of my cars does 0-60 in 5s another about 15s ( I think ) the “slow” one can be great fun going much slower than the fast one
My first car I don’t think would even do 60 mph but I had great fun as a 17 year old sliding it round bends and roundabouts ( a moggy )
Much the same as me and I don't really notice a massive difference in day to day commuting if I'm honest. Apart from a very distinct lack of grunt on motorway slip roads (69hp non-turbo diesel Berlingo). It makes the weekend car feel lively though! My first car I don’t think would even do 60 mph but I had great fun as a 17 year old sliding it round bends and roundabouts ( a moggy )
457892345 said:
I think that proper overtaking on windy b roads can be really the most nerve racking thing you do on the road as if you don't do it well it can go very wrong and even when you do it right it feels like everyone you pass will call the police to report you for dangerous driving
You're doing it wrong by the sounds of it. A properly planned overtake shouldn't be nerve racking nor should you be worried about being convicted of dangerous driving! I'd be taking things back to basic first principles and building back up if that genuinely describes your overtakes. Back on topic, I do most of my miles in a 148 bhp 2.4 diesel Hilux which although nice and torquey is really pretty slow. (0-60 in 13.2 and lucky to crack 100). I overtake all the time perfectly safely but you do obviously need more space than you do when I drive our other much faster cars.
Anything under 10 seconds should be more than fast enough for most sensible overtaking.
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