Gen 2 Vanquish S- dry starting?
Discussion
I understand some earlier astons would allow you to fully depress the throttle pedal when starting up after the car has been laid up without it sending fuel to the engine so as to allow some oil pressure to be built up thus avoiding the dry start so to speak.
I know my Vanquish S will take a good 3 seconds for the oil lamp to extinguish after its stood for a week or so yet extinguishes almost immediately if left only for a day or two.
Having laid my car up for potentially months over the winter I'm now wondering if there is a similar procedure I can adopt to get the oil circulated a little before it actually fires up?
My handbook only suggests firing the car up at least once per month when being stored, but doesn't recommend how. I'm aware the starter automatically cranks the engine over for about a second or so before allowing the engine to actually start which obviously helps so I'm just wondering if there's a better way that can augment the initial 1 second delay?
Any ideas or suggestions without having to disconnect loads of stuff would be helpful.
Cheers
I know my Vanquish S will take a good 3 seconds for the oil lamp to extinguish after its stood for a week or so yet extinguishes almost immediately if left only for a day or two.
Having laid my car up for potentially months over the winter I'm now wondering if there is a similar procedure I can adopt to get the oil circulated a little before it actually fires up?
My handbook only suggests firing the car up at least once per month when being stored, but doesn't recommend how. I'm aware the starter automatically cranks the engine over for about a second or so before allowing the engine to actually start which obviously helps so I'm just wondering if there's a better way that can augment the initial 1 second delay?
Any ideas or suggestions without having to disconnect loads of stuff would be helpful.
Cheers
If it’s the same procedure as my 2013 Non-S it’s
Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
[Edited to correct the MY to 2013]
Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
[Edited to correct the MY to 2013]
Edited by moveover on Wednesday 2nd November 10:22
Paul's car is the mark 2 Vanquish.
I have a very hazy memory of a previius topic, something to do with a change in later cars to a different fuel injection, or engine management system.
Think that meant the accelerator pedal full down technique, was no longer applicable.
I don't really know what I am talking about with this, but you obviously don't want a full revs engine start.
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 29th October 21:54
moveover said:
If it’s the same procedure as my 03 Non-S it’s
Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
No it’s not! Later cars have Bosch engine management so this procedure doesn’t work.Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
You will only be overreving a cold engine.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Gen 2 Vanquish uses the Ford ECU and you can dry crank it like all the other Ford ECU Astons. It’s possible that the S model uses Bosch, but that would be surprising for the small numbers made. I use the procedure all the time on my Vanq.
The Bosch engine management system was fitted to the Vanquish from 2015 onwards with the introduction of the 8 speed ZF gearbox. The later S had the same Bosch engine management. Yours must have been an earlier 6 speed with the Ford engine management.Same goes for the Rapide 8 speed introduced in 2015.
I can confirm my earlier statement : do not try this starting procedure on any Bosch engine management equipped car as it doesn’t work, you will only overrev a cold engine !
I’ve got essentially the same engine on mine (V12VSR equipped with the Performance Pack), it has the Bosch engine management and this procedure doesn’t work on mine.
CSK1 said:
moveover said:
If it’s the same procedure as my 03 Non-S it’s
Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
No it’s not! Later cars have Bosch engine management so this procedure doesn’t work.Left foot on brake
Push in ECU until red light
Right foot full throttle
Push in ECU all the way and hold
That turns over the engine without firing
My owners manual is wrong so I had to get this info direct from AM.
You will only be overreving a cold engine.
Thanks for your explanation. Relieved that it shows my memory does still work !
'moveover' states 03, so his car will be a Newport Pagnell built Vanquish, whereas OP's is a 2nd generation (Gaydon) car.
My mistake. To clarify, mine is a 2013 not a 2003 Vanquish. So it is a Gen 2 ZF 6 speed. As I said, these instructions came direct from AM and they work in my car. Full throttle only (which did work in my previous V8Vs) did not.
May be someone needs to add a definitive solution for all makes because this question gets asked a lot.
May be someone needs to add a definitive solution for all makes because this question gets asked a lot.
It appears I'm.not missing anything then and there isn't any specific recommended start up procedure after a lay up.
Just for clarity it is a 2017 8 spd car and the inbuilt protection (the car turning over briefly before being allowed to fire up) is great for every day type use but it does concern me slightly that those last few cylinders may get a hard time if you start it up once a month after its been standing as per the hand book.
Pulling the HT lead from days gone by on my older bangers doesn't seem to onerous nowadays !
Just for clarity it is a 2017 8 spd car and the inbuilt protection (the car turning over briefly before being allowed to fire up) is great for every day type use but it does concern me slightly that those last few cylinders may get a hard time if you start it up once a month after its been standing as per the hand book.
Pulling the HT lead from days gone by on my older bangers doesn't seem to onerous nowadays !
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
AdamV12V said:
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
No, that’s wrong. As stated above the 565hp Vanq (6 speed) uses the Ford ECU, and the dry crank procedure works of course. The problem seems to be that the switch to Bosch while clear cut, is not by model, so easily forgotten The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
Longy00000 said:
It appears I'm.not missing anything then and there isn't any specific recommended start up procedure after a lay up.
Just for clarity it is a 2017 8 spd car and the inbuilt protection (the car turning over briefly before being allowed to fire up) is great for every day type use but it does concern me slightly that those last few cylinders may get a hard time if you start it up once a month after its been standing as per the hand book.
Pulling the HT lead from days gone by on my older bangers doesn't seem to onerous nowadays !
I thought that with modern synthetic oils this was a non issue?Just for clarity it is a 2017 8 spd car and the inbuilt protection (the car turning over briefly before being allowed to fire up) is great for every day type use but it does concern me slightly that those last few cylinders may get a hard time if you start it up once a month after its been standing as per the hand book.
Pulling the HT lead from days gone by on my older bangers doesn't seem to onerous nowadays !
DB9VolanteDriver said:
AdamV12V said:
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
No, that’s wrong. As stated above the 565hp Vanq (6 speed) uses the Ford ECU, and the dry crank procedure works of course. The problem seems to be that the switch to Bosch while clear cut, is not by model, so easily forgotten The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
AdamV12V said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
AdamV12V said:
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
No, that’s wrong. As stated above the 565hp Vanq (6 speed) uses the Ford ECU, and the dry crank procedure works of course. The problem seems to be that the switch to Bosch while clear cut, is not by model, so easily forgotten The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
AdamV12V said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
AdamV12V said:
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
No, that’s wrong. As stated above the 565hp Vanq (6 speed) uses the Ford ECU, and the dry crank procedure works of course. The problem seems to be that the switch to Bosch while clear cut, is not by model, so easily forgotten The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Martin_Vanqu...
Later the Vanquish S came with the 595bhp V12 from the GT12, AMR V12VS, AMR Rapide and powerkit for V12VS.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
AdamV12V said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
AdamV12V said:
Pretty sure than any OEM factory output V12 in excess of 510bhp uses the bosch engine mangement. 510bhp or less engines use the older ford ecu.
The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
No, that’s wrong. As stated above the 565hp Vanq (6 speed) uses the Ford ECU, and the dry crank procedure works of course. The problem seems to be that the switch to Bosch while clear cut, is not by model, so easily forgotten The increased output was in large enabled by the knock sensors allowing the V12 to nake use of 97+ ron fuels. He ford ecu was fixed for 95 ron fuel only, hence it hampered the potential output.
AM11 engine is ford ECU and 510bhp.
AM28 engine is bosch ECU and is 565 bhp.
No comment from me either way on dry cranking with eother of these…
If you have an AM28 engine that dry cranks then the comment above is incorrect. Not mine. Cheers
Edited by AdamV12V on Sunday 30th October 23:03
CSK1 said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Gen 2 Vanquish uses the Ford ECU and you can dry crank it like all the other Ford ECU Astons. It’s possible that the S model uses Bosch, but that would be surprising for the small numbers made. I use the procedure all the time on my Vanq.
The Bosch engine management system was fitted to the Vanquish from 2015 onwards with the introduction of the 8 speed ZF gearbox. The later S had the same Bosch engine management. Yours must have been an earlier 6 speed with the Ford engine management.Same goes for the Rapide 8 speed introduced in 2015.
I can confirm my earlier statement : do not try this starting procedure on any Bosch engine management equipped car as it doesn’t work, you will only overrev a cold engine !
I’ve got essentially the same engine on mine (V12VSR equipped with the Performance Pack), it has the Bosch engine management and this procedure doesn’t work on mine.
The Vanquish S had the 595bhp version, which also uses the Bosch ECU....
I have no idea whatsoever about dry crank features on either models, but the AM28 engine absolutely used the Bosch ECU, so I stand by my comments on V12 engines >510bhp using Bosch, rather than Ford ECU.
Just to clear up any confusion over the last few posts
I was very disappointed when Aston removed the spark inhibit feature on the Bosch ECU cars. My attempts to find a fuse that, when removed, would do the same thing, have been unsuccessful. I always grimace when starting my V12VS after it has been sitting awhile; it takes a few seconds for the oil pressure light to go out and I wonder whether it really does get enough oil at first.
I'd take issue with the handbook advising the car be started every few weeks during storage. IMHO, this is a bad idea unless you are planning to drive it around and thoroughly warm all fluids. It is likely to do more harm than good, otherwise.
I'd take issue with the handbook advising the car be started every few weeks during storage. IMHO, this is a bad idea unless you are planning to drive it around and thoroughly warm all fluids. It is likely to do more harm than good, otherwise.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff