Choosing a Car
Discussion
I'm in the process of choosing a kit car project. I'm after a seven or similar type car which will be used for road and track days. I dont want to go down the BEC route and am thinking of putting the 16V 4AGE into whichever car I decide to pursue. So far the two cars that have taken my fancy are Raw's Striker and the STM Phoenix, funnily enough both were designed by Sylva before they flogged the manufacturing rights! Any suggestions on other cars and how they stack up against the two I've mentioned in terms of performance, cost and quality. Cheers
I looked at a lot of the Seven type cars about 6 months ago and ended up choosing the Striker (I didn't look at the full bodied Phoenix / Fury jobs though). Best advice I can give is to go the the shows and talk to the people on the stands. Once you've whittled it down to a few choices, visit some factories and get some drives and see what you think. I got to drive the Striker demonstrator and LLandow circuit, which is what clinched it for me.
Oh and you know you want the 20v 4AGE really, once you factor in that it comes with throttle bodies as standard its not THAT much more expensive
Well thats what I'm telling myself anyway 
Oh and you know you want the 20v 4AGE really, once you factor in that it comes with throttle bodies as standard its not THAT much more expensive
Well thats what I'm telling myself anyway As you will no doubt be aware, they originated as essentially the same car - the Phoenix was basically a streamlined, enclosed wheel variant of the Striker. The chassis and suspension geometry are very similar indeed.
In terms of handling, there is nothing really to choose between them.
A lot will depend on personal preference regarding looks, and the use to which you intend putting the car.
The Striker has the potential advantage of a full windscreen & weather gear, should you choose to use it, though personally I prefer aeroscreens and waterproofs.
For hillclimbing or exclusively B-road use the Striker may be preferable; because you can see the wheels, it can be easier for a novice to place accurately on a tight road or hillclimb course. Also, depending upon local interpretation of the rules, the lack of a full windscreen on the Phoenix used to put it in 'Sports Libre' class on sprints and hillclimbs, which meant you were competing against Mallocks, OMS sports racers and the like - not competitive, in other words. I'm not up-to-date with the current rules, though, so this may have changed.
For circuit racing or use on fast, open roads, I'd say the Phoenix is preferable. The streamlined bodyshell makes a big difference to top-end performance. All open-wheel 'Seven' type cars run into an aerodynamic brick wall at much above 100mph. It takes a lot of power to push one up to a genuine 130mph and even the 330bhp TVR engined Westfield V8 struggled to hit 150mph. This means that there is enough drag at 'motorway' speeds to blunt the acceleration to the point where you'd not have much advantage over the current generation of hot hatchbacks.
For comparison, my Phoenix will pull 135mph with ease on an old (albeit semi-race spec.) Ford Crossflow - top speed is probably a bit more, but it starts to get a bit hairy at that pace on anything but perfectly smooth tarmac! A friend's Fiat Twin Cam engined Striker, with similar power to my Crossflow, couldn't top a genuine (GPS measured) 120mph.
If you intend to circuit race the car, you simply won't be competitive in an open-wheel Striker - you'll find that all the front runners are in enclosed-body Phoenix or Fisher Furys - and obviously the Phoenix would benefit from a similar performance advantage on trackdays.
In terms of handling, there is nothing really to choose between them.
A lot will depend on personal preference regarding looks, and the use to which you intend putting the car.
The Striker has the potential advantage of a full windscreen & weather gear, should you choose to use it, though personally I prefer aeroscreens and waterproofs.
For hillclimbing or exclusively B-road use the Striker may be preferable; because you can see the wheels, it can be easier for a novice to place accurately on a tight road or hillclimb course. Also, depending upon local interpretation of the rules, the lack of a full windscreen on the Phoenix used to put it in 'Sports Libre' class on sprints and hillclimbs, which meant you were competing against Mallocks, OMS sports racers and the like - not competitive, in other words. I'm not up-to-date with the current rules, though, so this may have changed.
For circuit racing or use on fast, open roads, I'd say the Phoenix is preferable. The streamlined bodyshell makes a big difference to top-end performance. All open-wheel 'Seven' type cars run into an aerodynamic brick wall at much above 100mph. It takes a lot of power to push one up to a genuine 130mph and even the 330bhp TVR engined Westfield V8 struggled to hit 150mph. This means that there is enough drag at 'motorway' speeds to blunt the acceleration to the point where you'd not have much advantage over the current generation of hot hatchbacks.
For comparison, my Phoenix will pull 135mph with ease on an old (albeit semi-race spec.) Ford Crossflow - top speed is probably a bit more, but it starts to get a bit hairy at that pace on anything but perfectly smooth tarmac! A friend's Fiat Twin Cam engined Striker, with similar power to my Crossflow, couldn't top a genuine (GPS measured) 120mph.
If you intend to circuit race the car, you simply won't be competitive in an open-wheel Striker - you'll find that all the front runners are in enclosed-body Phoenix or Fisher Furys - and obviously the Phoenix would benefit from a similar performance advantage on trackdays.
Thanks Guys, I was thinking of the 16V engine because I think there is more potential for tweeking it later on, Im under the impression that there is not much can be done with the 20V (althoough it produces about 150bhp anyway!) I have been out in the Striker demo car already and was blown away by the handling and power delivery. Just a bit more homework required I think! Cheers
I believe that both these companies will be at the totalkitcar live day at Brands Hatch in September along with many of the other manufacturers. Maybe its worth going along and trying out your short list on the Indy track all in one day as opposed to travelling the country and trying to remember how the other car handled.
I am at the car choice stage myself.
I was tending to a Tiger with Pinto/webers but am now also looking at the Raw Striker with 4Age engine.
I will not do anything until I have drieven the cars tho.
I am looking for a 7 type for road use so am immediately ignoring bike engines! Definitely over the top for road use!
Both these cars fall within a budget where Westfield/dax etc go over it
I would rather have a good spec car than try to cut sosts for a higher priced car and lose out.
Ultimately it will boil down to which car i feel better driving.
I was tending to a Tiger with Pinto/webers but am now also looking at the Raw Striker with 4Age engine.
I will not do anything until I have drieven the cars tho.
I am looking for a 7 type for road use so am immediately ignoring bike engines! Definitely over the top for road use!
Both these cars fall within a budget where Westfield/dax etc go over it
I would rather have a good spec car than try to cut sosts for a higher priced car and lose out.
Ultimately it will boil down to which car i feel better driving.
sospan said:
I am looking for a 7 type for road use so am immediately ignoring bike engines! Definitely over the top for road use!
Why does everyone knock BEC's? I also did'nt originally fancy one as was led to believe the horror stories of "all or nothing" power delivery and uncompromising drive.
Take a test drive and find out for yourself! Once I tried one, I realised that it was all boll*cks. Bike engines make great sense in lightweight 7's, and when you add in the sequential gearbox and engine cost it just gets better.
Go on.....take a test drive, and don't get put off by any preconceptions.
Phil
pdw709 said:Seems a bit odd. I wasn't sure which engine to go with for my locost project and then some helpful soul took me out in his blade powered car (fury I think) and I was totally hooked and am now building an r1 powered car. Granted it's not as 'normal' as a zetec/4age/vx but then these things are never going to be a relaxing drive in any guise.
Why does everyone knock BEC's?
All the engine options will have their supporters and detracters but in my honest opinion you shouldn't discount any of the options because frankly if you've never driven one before then any of these cars with any of the possible engines will seem utterly superb. Try them all... and then buy a v8
Mark
Hi
There is one thing to consider re Bike engines is that if your even vaguely thinking of doing any hillclimbs or sprints, using your road going kit car, then the bike engined cars nearly* all end up in either sport libre or 1 of the other higher spec classes.
At most club events the road going class for kit cars is split at 1700cc and is for car derived engines only.
(* there seems to be a bit of debate over the Caterham Hyabusa as apparently they have made enough to classify it as a 'production' car as opposed to 'specialist production' so some clubs allow this in, some don't)
hope this helps
There is one thing to consider re Bike engines is that if your even vaguely thinking of doing any hillclimbs or sprints, using your road going kit car, then the bike engined cars nearly* all end up in either sport libre or 1 of the other higher spec classes.
At most club events the road going class for kit cars is split at 1700cc and is for car derived engines only.
(* there seems to be a bit of debate over the Caterham Hyabusa as apparently they have made enough to classify it as a 'production' car as opposed to 'specialist production' so some clubs allow this in, some don't)
hope this helps
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