Firing order and cylinder numbers, magnecor
Discussion
Hi there,
Once again a seemingly easy job has turned into a bloody disaster. I bought a new set of magnecor blue ignition leads and finally got around to fitting them last night. Well you guessed it, the bloody thing will not start. Now perhaps I was being a little naïve, but I thought that armed with Steve Heaths book with a list of the firing order and relevant cylinder numbers I could take the whole lot off in one go and make a nice job of putting them back.
Well actually no :( Either my leads are buggered (as I have been reading in other threads, or more likely I have them connected up the wrong way). I have not had the time to swap the old leads back, or to check for sparks because it was a bit late last night.
I just though I would check that the diagram in the bible is correct. With the odd cylinders starting from 1 at the front of the near side and evens on the opposite running to 8 on the drivers side rear. Also, when you look from above at the dizzy, does number 6 HT lead run from exactly above the inlet for the vacuum advance pipe on the dizzy.
Another question, I have small extensions (suppressors ?), on top of my dizzy cap. Are these required, or not required with the magnecor blue leads.
Many thanks,
Z (In a crap Metro 1.5D)
Once again a seemingly easy job has turned into a bloody disaster. I bought a new set of magnecor blue ignition leads and finally got around to fitting them last night. Well you guessed it, the bloody thing will not start. Now perhaps I was being a little naïve, but I thought that armed with Steve Heaths book with a list of the firing order and relevant cylinder numbers I could take the whole lot off in one go and make a nice job of putting them back.
Well actually no :( Either my leads are buggered (as I have been reading in other threads, or more likely I have them connected up the wrong way). I have not had the time to swap the old leads back, or to check for sparks because it was a bit late last night.
I just though I would check that the diagram in the bible is correct. With the odd cylinders starting from 1 at the front of the near side and evens on the opposite running to 8 on the drivers side rear. Also, when you look from above at the dizzy, does number 6 HT lead run from exactly above the inlet for the vacuum advance pipe on the dizzy.
Another question, I have small extensions (suppressors ?), on top of my dizzy cap. Are these required, or not required with the magnecor blue leads.
Many thanks,
Z (In a crap Metro 1.5D)
bugsy said:
Unless I have misread your post, I think you have got this wrong.
The front offside cylinder is no 1 and the front nearside is number 4.
So going backwards from the front offside its 123 and from the nearside its 456 going backwards
That would explain it bugsy, but every picture I have seen and every diagram has the odds on the passenger side and the evens on the drivers side. Are you sure.
To make it clear, I thought that in my V8S the evens are on the same side as the brake servo and the odds are under the inlet to the plenum.
Z
as ever. Humm,
thinking about it perhaps I have been smoking to many of UKBobs jazz fags. I'll stop thinking aloud and have a good sitdown.
Z
Whichever car it is, V6 or V8, The cylinder numbers go up in sequance ie, 1 2 3 4 drivers side and 5 6 7 8 passenger side. Always counting from the front. The difference being, where they are plugged onto the dizzy cap.
Edited to say;
On checking "the bible" I am wrong. On the V8 passenger side front to back 1357, drivers side 2468. Dizzy cap goes- 18436572. Not seen anything like that before,
>> Edited by TOPTON on Tuesday 16th August 11:53
Edited to say;
On checking "the bible" I am wrong. On the V8 passenger side front to back 1357, drivers side 2468. Dizzy cap goes- 18436572. Not seen anything like that before,
>> Edited by TOPTON on Tuesday 16th August 11:53
TOPTON said:
Whichever car it is, V6 or V8, The cylinder numbers go up in sequance ie, 1 2 3 4 drivers side and 5 6 7 8 passenger side. Always counting from the front. The difference being, where they are plugged onto the dizzy cap.
Edited to say;
On checking "the bible" I am wrong. On the V8 passenger side front to back 1357, drivers side 2468. Dizzy cap goes- 18436572. Not seen anything like that before,
>> Edited by TOPTON on Tuesday 16th August 11:53
This is too confusing. A guy at work now claims the Griff he owned went 1,2,3,4 5,6,7,8 in two opposing banks. Why oh why did I take all of the leads off in the first place, a triumph of form over function.
Can anyone clear this up once and for all. Is the bible right, or what?
Mega
Z
Different engine types have the cylinders numbered differently. The standard numbering scheme for the RV8 has cylinders 1357 on the nearside (#1 at the front), 2468 on the offside (#2 at the front). This matches the order of the con rods on the crank. Using this numbering scheme, the firing order is 18436572. Dizzy rotation is clockwise by the way.
The position of the HT leads on the distributor is a funny one. In principle the distributor can be fitted in several orientations, you can rotate the dizzy by 1/8th of a turn and it will work just as well. The only limiting factor is the body of the dizzy physically hitting its surroundings. The interesting point is that the position of the HT leads is the same regardless of the dizzy orientation. In other words if you pull the HT leads off the dizzy, hold them in space and turn the dizzy through 1/8 of a turn and put the leads back on (now shifted round one place from their original positions) it will work just as well.
The point of this is that the HT leads need to be in the correct absolute position (#1 at the front iirc) rather than relative to the vac advance module etc.
If you really get stuck then the best bet is to locate top dead center (firing stroke) on #1 cylinder, find where the rotor arm is pointing to and connect #1 lead there, then work round the dizzy clockwise fitting the other leads in the correct firing order.
The position of the HT leads on the distributor is a funny one. In principle the distributor can be fitted in several orientations, you can rotate the dizzy by 1/8th of a turn and it will work just as well. The only limiting factor is the body of the dizzy physically hitting its surroundings. The interesting point is that the position of the HT leads is the same regardless of the dizzy orientation. In other words if you pull the HT leads off the dizzy, hold them in space and turn the dizzy through 1/8 of a turn and put the leads back on (now shifted round one place from their original positions) it will work just as well.
The point of this is that the HT leads need to be in the correct absolute position (#1 at the front iirc) rather than relative to the vac advance module etc.
If you really get stuck then the best bet is to locate top dead center (firing stroke) on #1 cylinder, find where the rotor arm is pointing to and connect #1 lead there, then work round the dizzy clockwise fitting the other leads in the correct firing order.
GreenV8S said:
Different engine types have the cylinders numbered differently. The standard numbering scheme for the RV8 has cylinders 1357 on the nearside (#1 at the front), 2468 on the offside (#2 at the front). This matches the order of the con rods on the crank. Using this numbering scheme, the firing order is 18436572. Dizzy rotation is clockwise by the way.
The position of the HT leads on the distributor is a funny one. In principle the distributor can be fitted in several orientations, you can rotate the dizzy by 1/8th of a turn and it will work just as well. The only limiting factor is the body of the dizzy physically hitting its surroundings. The interesting point is that the position of the HT leads is the same regardless of the dizzy orientation. In other words if you pull the HT leads off the dizzy, hold them in space and turn the dizzy through 1/8 of a turn and put the leads back on (now shifted round one place from their original positions) it will work just as well.
The point of this is that the HT leads need to be in the correct absolute position (#1 at the front iirc) rather than relative to the vac advance module etc.
If you really get stuck then the best bet is to locate top dead center (firing stroke) on #1 cylinder, find where the rotor arm is pointing to and connect #1 lead there, then work round the dizzy clockwise fitting the other leads in the correct firing order.
Cheers Pete,
I realised that I may have to go down the TDC route, but turning the engine over by hand seems impossible. There is no bolt on the end of the crank to move the dam thing.
In fact I messed about for ages doing it bit by bit on the starter to find out TDC on cylinder 1 is about 180 deg from where I belived it was (difficult to tell using the starter as it never stops quite where you want it.)
Humph, it now makes me look even more stupid that I found out through looking for a spark at any plug that the cause of the non-start is at least partially due to the fact that I knocked the two positive wires from the coil when I routed the new leads. I will get a new connector from work and have another go tomorrow, at which point I will probably find it was all ok in the firts place.
Ho-hum,
Z
.
z_chromozone said:
What your opinion about the supressor caps on the dizzy, are they needed or not.
It's normal to fit plug extenders, in order to move the HT leads away from the hottest part of the exhaust manifold. I've never seen anyone else using extra bits between the dizzy cap and the HT lead, and I suggest you bin them.
clive f said:
can you let me know if the new leads are a good investment, I`ve been thinking of getting some if the mot is cheap!
Hi Clive,
Personally I would say that the lead were a good investment. I would not say they are going to give you an extra 10 bhp, or anything. But, on my car the pick up from idle when I depress the accel' appears to be more responsive and quicker. I could have sworn that the beast was a little quicker to start too. On top of that the quality of the leads is very high and they clip on and come off of the plugs / cap very nicely. If you are thinking of spending X amount on a set of standard replacements then £87.50 on the magnecors is worth the extra IMO.
I bought mine from RPI (ebay site), they suggested I bid there to avoid the VAT when I rant them directly. I think it must put up their rating on ebay. In the end I paid about £6.50 less over all once p&p had be accounted for. Just be carful to allow for this when bidding. You could probably save more if you bought more that 1 item and only paid one lot of postage.
Z
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