Learning to drive
Discussion
Surveyor junior is learning to drive. Her car is now ready for the road, so I've taken her out a couple of times. She has had 5 or 6 hour long lessons.
I'm frankly terrified. Her clutch control is poor - I suspect because her instructor's car is diesel so needs no gas. Her fiat 500 does not throttle to pull away. An extra complexity.
And her steering is awful. She regularly crosses her arms and then runs out of the ability to turn the wheel further. She says her instructor has not said anything, and that his car requires less steering input.
The instructor to date has taken her on long country road drives with little or no maneuvering. From what I recall, my instructor had me all over the local housing estates and the open road was not a thing until I had mastered the basic maneuvers...
I'd be interested in others' experiences.. I've told her that she needs more practice with a professional until I'm confident in taking her out again. Needless to say I am not popular.
I'm frankly terrified. Her clutch control is poor - I suspect because her instructor's car is diesel so needs no gas. Her fiat 500 does not throttle to pull away. An extra complexity.
And her steering is awful. She regularly crosses her arms and then runs out of the ability to turn the wheel further. She says her instructor has not said anything, and that his car requires less steering input.
The instructor to date has taken her on long country road drives with little or no maneuvering. From what I recall, my instructor had me all over the local housing estates and the open road was not a thing until I had mastered the basic maneuvers...
I'd be interested in others' experiences.. I've told her that she needs more practice with a professional until I'm confident in taking her out again. Needless to say I am not popular.
It’s a challenge for learners to jump between two cars and the clutch/ power combo.
Spend ages in the local retail park after closing, up to third gear, back down to second doing laps, eventually it’s not even a talking point as you move on to parking manoeuvres . Use the edges of rows as turning points as this winds on and off a lot of lock.
Open road comes later.
Just be careful not to contradict the instructor, as they the ones who know what examiners are looking for. Although their job is to get a test pass, not necessarily to make a good driver.
Spend ages in the local retail park after closing, up to third gear, back down to second doing laps, eventually it’s not even a talking point as you move on to parking manoeuvres . Use the edges of rows as turning points as this winds on and off a lot of lock.
Open road comes later.
Just be careful not to contradict the instructor, as they the ones who know what examiners are looking for. Although their job is to get a test pass, not necessarily to make a good driver.
Just a thought on the clutch control: has she her seat set properly? Properly is going to look a lot different depending on her height but also based on the clutch pedal travel. I've never driven a 500 so can't be sure but based on the shape I imagine it's a fairly upright driving position and that the pedal feels like it comes upwards rather than more like a back/forwards movement. If the throttle is floor mounted then she might not be putting her foot in the same place reliably enough to consistently move off smoothly. That's one thing about floor mounted throttles - catch them too low down and the movement is limited.
As for the steering, PH's resident guru, Reg Local, has a superb video.
As for the steering, PH's resident guru, Reg Local, has a superb video.
Good instructors are not cheap, I guess. Also from what I have seen of singly occupied school cars, instructors do not always practise what they (should) preach.
Why not ask the instructor about which steering methods they teach? Then practise that in a car park. The trouble is, youngsters are impatient and want to do everything at once, rather than repeat each skill until sufficiently mastered. I am sure Reg Local (of this parish) has a video on different steering methods and when to use them, there will be plenty similar videos around. Watch a few to see which make sense and will work for a learner.
As for the clutch thing, that is a bit harder. There was a thread recently on rev-matching, which has never been an issue for me. Either it has become natural to me, or big 6 cylinder cars make it easier for the power-train to dampen out any mismatch.
I have to confess, I came to (verbal) blows when trying to teach my two sons. It comes with the territory on anything in teenage years. They both gave up, one successfully learnt later, the other went to work in Japan after graduation and, being in a very big city with extensive and excellent public transport, has never felt the need to drive. On the other hand, I taught my mum to drive a few years after I passed at 18.
Good luck.
Why not ask the instructor about which steering methods they teach? Then practise that in a car park. The trouble is, youngsters are impatient and want to do everything at once, rather than repeat each skill until sufficiently mastered. I am sure Reg Local (of this parish) has a video on different steering methods and when to use them, there will be plenty similar videos around. Watch a few to see which make sense and will work for a learner.
As for the clutch thing, that is a bit harder. There was a thread recently on rev-matching, which has never been an issue for me. Either it has become natural to me, or big 6 cylinder cars make it easier for the power-train to dampen out any mismatch.
I have to confess, I came to (verbal) blows when trying to teach my two sons. It comes with the territory on anything in teenage years. They both gave up, one successfully learnt later, the other went to work in Japan after graduation and, being in a very big city with extensive and excellent public transport, has never felt the need to drive. On the other hand, I taught my mum to drive a few years after I passed at 18.
Good luck.
Everyone is different how they learn, but i’d give her another 5 hours with the driving instructor before you go out with her again. I think you probably also need to lower your expectations quite a lot, it’s very difficult to learn how to drive if you have never done it before - experienced drivers forget just how difficult it is.
Following this thread
Son turned 17 a few weeks ago, so far been unable to find an instructor, all too busy or retiring. Looking for a suitable car for him and then I'll risk taking him out but Father/Son relationships may be strained to breaking point.
And the problem I can foresee is that it's over 50 years since I took my car driving test although I have since done a Motorbike test and a bus driving test. Things have changed over the 50 years, no longer slowing through the gears it's now block changing as an example.
Son turned 17 a few weeks ago, so far been unable to find an instructor, all too busy or retiring. Looking for a suitable car for him and then I'll risk taking him out but Father/Son relationships may be strained to breaking point.
And the problem I can foresee is that it's over 50 years since I took my car driving test although I have since done a Motorbike test and a bus driving test. Things have changed over the 50 years, no longer slowing through the gears it's now block changing as an example.
When I learned to drive relatively recently (2015, so maybe not that recently haha) it was my impression that the professional teaching of clutch control was terrible. My dad was a million times better at teaching that aspect.
I’d persevere with your daughter. By all means, just go in car parks or deserted housing estates with little other traffic whilst she gets better.
Of course, it also depends on your own teaching style. Not everyone is a good teacher. If you’re just bickering with each other, more harm than good.
I’d persevere with your daughter. By all means, just go in car parks or deserted housing estates with little other traffic whilst she gets better.
Of course, it also depends on your own teaching style. Not everyone is a good teacher. If you’re just bickering with each other, more harm than good.
It can be a bit of a minefield. My daughter had quite a few lessons before I started taking her out to practice. You don't know how the instructor teaches so if you say something different it can be more hindrance than help, best let them get to a place where they know pretty much what they should old be doing, and are competent enough to need practice more than instruction.
Also, moderate your expectations as someone has said already. If they could drive already they wouldn't need to learn;)
Also, moderate your expectations as someone has said already. If they could drive already they wouldn't need to learn;)
One other thing I figured out, although everyone is different. Don't get them to do something with you that they haven't done with their instructor. Tried that a few times - roundabouts especially - and it didn't go well;).
Calls for a bit of thought on routes to avoid unfamiliar manoeuvres!
Calls for a bit of thought on routes to avoid unfamiliar manoeuvres!
AndrewGP said:
Following with interest, JuniorGP is approaching 17 and is very keen to learn to drive.
As if I'm not apprehensive enough about taking him out on the road, he declared to me last week that 'I don't think I'll need many lessons actually, it looks pretty easy to me'
It starts off easy, then gets harder. Like all things, the more you know, the more you realise there is to learn. Try doing a running commentary, especially mentioning hazards and potential hazards, you can’t talk fast enough for that!As if I'm not apprehensive enough about taking him out on the road, he declared to me last week that 'I don't think I'll need many lessons actually, it looks pretty easy to me'
When I helped my little sisters with learning to drive I put my hand on the left foot and showed them what was the right way to raise the pedal and demonstrated that even without any accelerator you could move the car off the line. I think it worked well. Obviously with the touching... driving instructors can't really do that... but it's a great way to learn clutch control.
Levin said:
Sebring440 said:
What is "block changing"? What "block" is involved?
Downshifting from fifth to third and bypassing fourth is block shifting. swisstoni said:
I kept right out of my son’s tuition and left it up to the professionals.
Best for all concerned imho.
Both my boys had proper lessons, but in addition we used to go out for at least an hour a day in my car with L plates to just get extra hours on the road. It was absolutely fine and i never had a crossed word with either of them. I'd point out errors calmly and they'd take them on board. Plus lots of praise when they did stuff right. Best for all concerned imho.
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