Maybe an Odd Comparison - E93 M3 vs TTRS 8J or ????
Discussion
Hi all, make a brew, grab a biccy and help out a chap in a conundrum.
So a few months back I received a lot of helpful information on whether or not I should pull the trigger on a proper 2 seater sports car to replace my E93 M3. I feel the M3 has been really good as a daily car, with that something extra (v8). Its been comfortable as any e9* 3 series should, with the added bonus of a lovely s65 v8 under the bonnet. BUT. That it had no real "zing" beyond that. It doesn't feel all that special unless you have the roof down and you are really stretching its legs (8k +) to let that engine sing.
So, as i've never really been in the position to have a 2seater before. I thought, with a fast road megane rs on the drive, which can be used for daily duties (and its very capable of that). I could part with the more daily focussed M3 and get a car with more of the aforementioned zing.
Fast forward 2 or 3 months and i've not parted with the M3. Mainly as the market has slowed due to the winter and also because i've had issues with the RS. Which has really thrown a bit of a spanner in the works.
Having two cars is great. it allows me freedom of choice, freedom of expression, two different types of car/drive to choose from etc. For someone like myself, who loves driving, i'm happy to pick either of cars for nigh on any occasion right now. As both have capacity to take 3 people out (my children + myself).
The issue with removing one of those from the equation, is that the Renault quite often needs fettling/work in the garage. Parts are hard to get hold of and as such, it is in the garage for weeks at a time. Leaving me, as of right now, daily driving the M3. Here comes the spanner.
If i were to swap that out to a 2seater, i'd no longer be able to use the second car as a back-up daily and i'd be left in the lurch relying on lifts/taxis till any such time the RS is fixed. This has made me doubt concept of having a dedicated drivers sports car (my choices were narrowed down to Cayman S, S2000).
Instead, i'm left thinking that i'm best doing one of two things. Either keeping the M3 or swapping it for another 2+2 "sports" coupe.
I wouldn't call the E93 a sports car. In fact. I wouldn't go so far as calling the E92 a sports car - though its closer to that than the 'vert on paper. The E93 is a lovely long legged cruiser with a brute of a revvy engine but honestly, round town, two and from places etc. It does just ultimately feel like a 3 series of any sort, probably worse as its very gutless down low. So, asides the noise from the v8 when i'm lucky enough to stretch its legs, i may as well be in a 320i/d etc. BUT on those rare occassions i can open her up and get the roof down it is quite an occasion and the engine makes it feel that bit more special BUT only at that point.
When looking for another 2+2 that is quick, has a nice engine, that handles relatively well and is comfy enough for daily use BUT also is a bit special.
I find myself with either a GT86/BRZ or a TTRS 8J
Now the GT86 is ok - but i find it isn't fast in any shape or form. I've been in one several times, and whilst i get why some like it. I'm not a fan. I know its probably the drivers choice (which i would usually go for) but it would need another 50-75hp minimum, to tick the box for me of daily and weekend use. And i don't want to modify an engine - the RS has that "issue". So don't want another one like it.
That leaves the TTS and for the price of the S you may as well get a slightly older 8J TTRS with the proper 5pot lump.
So my question is (if you are still with me - thanks) -
1. Is the TTRS as good or better even than the E93 M3 to drive? I know if i compared e92 to TTRS, which would win, but the added weight of the E93, i wonder if its less of a clear winner than some might think?
2. Can you even compare the 2? I see TT's get so much hate on this site. Is it that bad??
3. Is that engine special enough to compete with the S65? So when i do get it out on a weekend, will it have an element of a zing.
4. Am i missing anything other than these two (having discounted the GT86)?
I guess the other option is to sell both cars. Thats a very tough call to make as the RS is a love/passion. Selling it seems crazy at this point having come so far.
And i'm unsure i could find a drivers car that can seat up to 4 people that handles as well and goes as well as either of what i have now. At least not in budget and buying bottom of the rung. The 911 is the only comparable car and even selling both i'm only just in leggy 997 territory at about 25k-30k estimated.
Conundrum. I think sometimes i just like to talk it through on here so i can hear other people tell me i'm nuts or offer their opinion and declutters my own head. So help is appreciated.
Cheers all.
So a few months back I received a lot of helpful information on whether or not I should pull the trigger on a proper 2 seater sports car to replace my E93 M3. I feel the M3 has been really good as a daily car, with that something extra (v8). Its been comfortable as any e9* 3 series should, with the added bonus of a lovely s65 v8 under the bonnet. BUT. That it had no real "zing" beyond that. It doesn't feel all that special unless you have the roof down and you are really stretching its legs (8k +) to let that engine sing.
So, as i've never really been in the position to have a 2seater before. I thought, with a fast road megane rs on the drive, which can be used for daily duties (and its very capable of that). I could part with the more daily focussed M3 and get a car with more of the aforementioned zing.
Fast forward 2 or 3 months and i've not parted with the M3. Mainly as the market has slowed due to the winter and also because i've had issues with the RS. Which has really thrown a bit of a spanner in the works.
Having two cars is great. it allows me freedom of choice, freedom of expression, two different types of car/drive to choose from etc. For someone like myself, who loves driving, i'm happy to pick either of cars for nigh on any occasion right now. As both have capacity to take 3 people out (my children + myself).
The issue with removing one of those from the equation, is that the Renault quite often needs fettling/work in the garage. Parts are hard to get hold of and as such, it is in the garage for weeks at a time. Leaving me, as of right now, daily driving the M3. Here comes the spanner.
If i were to swap that out to a 2seater, i'd no longer be able to use the second car as a back-up daily and i'd be left in the lurch relying on lifts/taxis till any such time the RS is fixed. This has made me doubt concept of having a dedicated drivers sports car (my choices were narrowed down to Cayman S, S2000).
Instead, i'm left thinking that i'm best doing one of two things. Either keeping the M3 or swapping it for another 2+2 "sports" coupe.
I wouldn't call the E93 a sports car. In fact. I wouldn't go so far as calling the E92 a sports car - though its closer to that than the 'vert on paper. The E93 is a lovely long legged cruiser with a brute of a revvy engine but honestly, round town, two and from places etc. It does just ultimately feel like a 3 series of any sort, probably worse as its very gutless down low. So, asides the noise from the v8 when i'm lucky enough to stretch its legs, i may as well be in a 320i/d etc. BUT on those rare occassions i can open her up and get the roof down it is quite an occasion and the engine makes it feel that bit more special BUT only at that point.
When looking for another 2+2 that is quick, has a nice engine, that handles relatively well and is comfy enough for daily use BUT also is a bit special.
I find myself with either a GT86/BRZ or a TTRS 8J
Now the GT86 is ok - but i find it isn't fast in any shape or form. I've been in one several times, and whilst i get why some like it. I'm not a fan. I know its probably the drivers choice (which i would usually go for) but it would need another 50-75hp minimum, to tick the box for me of daily and weekend use. And i don't want to modify an engine - the RS has that "issue". So don't want another one like it.
That leaves the TTS and for the price of the S you may as well get a slightly older 8J TTRS with the proper 5pot lump.
So my question is (if you are still with me - thanks) -
1. Is the TTRS as good or better even than the E93 M3 to drive? I know if i compared e92 to TTRS, which would win, but the added weight of the E93, i wonder if its less of a clear winner than some might think?
2. Can you even compare the 2? I see TT's get so much hate on this site. Is it that bad??
3. Is that engine special enough to compete with the S65? So when i do get it out on a weekend, will it have an element of a zing.
4. Am i missing anything other than these two (having discounted the GT86)?
I guess the other option is to sell both cars. Thats a very tough call to make as the RS is a love/passion. Selling it seems crazy at this point having come so far.
And i'm unsure i could find a drivers car that can seat up to 4 people that handles as well and goes as well as either of what i have now. At least not in budget and buying bottom of the rung. The 911 is the only comparable car and even selling both i'm only just in leggy 997 territory at about 25k-30k estimated.
Conundrum. I think sometimes i just like to talk it through on here so i can hear other people tell me i'm nuts or offer their opinion and declutters my own head. So help is appreciated.
Cheers all.
Edited by stevekoz on Thursday 24th November 16:45
Before anyone says test drive one - i have test driven the TT in standard guise, it was a little numb, understeer was present (as per most Awd things in that category tbh so not that shocking). But it was quick, grippy and nice inside. I WILL go and test drive a TTRS for sure.
I just wanted to hear opinions from people that may have been in the same boat, experience of the cars in question etc.
I just wanted to hear opinions from people that may have been in the same boat, experience of the cars in question etc.
I had the M3 and a TTS both at the same time for a while. I personally preferred the TTS as a daily because it felt like it had more get up and go lower down the revs, plus it felt light/small and nimble. It wasn't the last word in driving dynamics(very light steering/it would understeer a fair bit), but it was lovely to sit in/live with though.
The engine in the TTRS is special imo, and it is definitely an engine that I'd love to try. I'd imagine the TTRS to be a fun car to drive I reckon, plus it will have lots of performance thrown in too. They aren't all the big in the rear seats though, so that is worth thinking about I reckon.
The engine in the TTRS is special imo, and it is definitely an engine that I'd love to try. I'd imagine the TTRS to be a fun car to drive I reckon, plus it will have lots of performance thrown in too. They aren't all the big in the rear seats though, so that is worth thinking about I reckon.
I've not had direct experience of E93 M3 or TTRS but I have owned an E92 M3 (manual) and RS3. Both similar packages to what you own and are considering.
I think the 5 Pot is at least as special and charismatic as the V8 without the 8k redline and better for everyday on the road performance.
If I was in the market I'd be going for the TT before the M3.
I think the 5 Pot is at least as special and charismatic as the V8 without the 8k redline and better for everyday on the road performance.
If I was in the market I'd be going for the TT before the M3.
If you can go £30K I’d seriously consider an M2.
Hits your brief 100%.
It’s more energetic and on its toes than the E90 M3 along with the turbo it has a very different character. Admittedly it’s definitely not as good a daily with a louder interior and far stiffer. I’ve had 4 adults in it all over 6ft so the kids will fit.
When I bought mine I wanted a cayman but they were too pricey so went with what I felt was the next best thing which was the M2.
Hits your brief 100%.
It’s more energetic and on its toes than the E90 M3 along with the turbo it has a very different character. Admittedly it’s definitely not as good a daily with a louder interior and far stiffer. I’ve had 4 adults in it all over 6ft so the kids will fit.
When I bought mine I wanted a cayman but they were too pricey so went with what I felt was the next best thing which was the M2.
cerb4.5lee said:
I had the M3 and a TTS both at the same time for a while. I personally preferred the TTS as a daily because it felt like it had more get up and go lower down the revs, plus it felt light/small and nimble. It wasn't the last word in driving dynamics(very light steering/it would understeer a fair bit), but it was lovely to sit in/live with though.
The engine in the TTRS is special imo, and it is definitely an engine that I'd love to try. I'd imagine the TTRS to be a fun car to drive I reckon, plus it will have lots of performance thrown in too. They aren't all the big in the rear seats though, so that is worth thinking about I reckon.
Hey Cerb, oddly i came across an old post of yours I think last night in my searches, where you detailed having the two. I mean not a bad garage line up has to be said. The engine in the TTRS is special imo, and it is definitely an engine that I'd love to try. I'd imagine the TTRS to be a fun car to drive I reckon, plus it will have lots of performance thrown in too. They aren't all the big in the rear seats though, so that is worth thinking about I reckon.
This is the kind of opinion i wanted, based on use and ownership. Nice to hear response about the TT that isn't also just "don't buy it its rubbish cus its a TT". Which i see often. Given the tendency to understeer i'd be more inclined to drive it like FWD hot hatch than an awd or rwd sports and then you expect that kind of responsiveness up front. Plus knowing me, i'd fettle with it to get it more dialled. I mean i'm that guy didn't think my Megane RS was sharp enough in corners LMAO. So I'm sure it can be sorted.
I'm going to be testing a 8J TTRS this weekend, not the spec i want but its local enough see what i think.
The rear seats does concern me. But only if i have to fit another adult in the car. I reckon with an 11 and 13 year old girl, one can sit with the front chair forwards enough for the rear to be useable for travelling. But i guess the proof will be in the pudding. Alas this market section of car, sporty, coupe not a hatch, doesn't really have much in it with 4 seats. M4 is useless, M3 gutless down low but superb over 80mph. C63 - not for me, too many around b'ham have been "ruined". M2, yes if i sold both cars, but its not really all that special in my opinion. If i got to a show there is usually 5 or 6 i see in a carpark. 911 but i'd be in a ropey budget and thats about it really i think?? Least the TTRS is a bit of a unicorn, don't remember seeing one on the road.
Anyway, maybe If its just not physically comfortable to use it, then it will be a case of moving back to the drawing board and reassessing as at that point maybe i get rid of the RS for a more reliable daily and go a different route.
Thanks, appreciate it buddy.
CG2020UK said:
If you can go £30K I’d seriously consider an M2.
Hits your brief 100%.
It’s more energetic and on its toes than the E90 M3 along with the turbo it has a very different character. Admittedly it’s definitely not as good a daily with a louder interior and far stiffer. I’ve had 4 adults in it all over 6ft so the kids will fit.
When I bought mine I wanted a cayman but they were too pricey so went with what I felt was the next best thing which was the M2.
I've driven an M2 and its good, but i'm unsure if i'd be willing to go down to 1 car just to have one. Not sure it's that car for me. I always saw the 911 being that one car for myself. But its a good shout for sure, if i end up going that way. Hits your brief 100%.
It’s more energetic and on its toes than the E90 M3 along with the turbo it has a very different character. Admittedly it’s definitely not as good a daily with a louder interior and far stiffer. I’ve had 4 adults in it all over 6ft so the kids will fit.
When I bought mine I wanted a cayman but they were too pricey so went with what I felt was the next best thing which was the M2.
I can completely understand where you're coming from with this.
I've had a couple of e92 m3's and 3 x Megane RS'. I did contemplate going from one of the latter to an E93, but I found that the extra weight of the leccy roof blunted the performance of the S65. Even wound up, it lacks the zing of the coupe. I got back in my 275 Cup S and it felt much lighter on its feet and punchier (as you'd expect) in gear.
I keep getting drawn back to the prospect of a 4.0 M3 of some description, but having gone down the porsche route a few times before and since, they are night and day better at the sports car thing.
I've never driven a TTRS so I can't comment much on one, but from a kudos point of view - if that's important to you - if one went past me I wouldn't be thinking 'oh they understeer' I'd be thinking 'that car has a cracking engine and great traction'.
Perhaps one option is to sell both and switch your emphasis around so you have a more practical (but interesting) daily, and a cheaper weekender that you can fettle? Like a 986 or an earlier 987 cayman?
I've had a couple of e92 m3's and 3 x Megane RS'. I did contemplate going from one of the latter to an E93, but I found that the extra weight of the leccy roof blunted the performance of the S65. Even wound up, it lacks the zing of the coupe. I got back in my 275 Cup S and it felt much lighter on its feet and punchier (as you'd expect) in gear.
I keep getting drawn back to the prospect of a 4.0 M3 of some description, but having gone down the porsche route a few times before and since, they are night and day better at the sports car thing.
I've never driven a TTRS so I can't comment much on one, but from a kudos point of view - if that's important to you - if one went past me I wouldn't be thinking 'oh they understeer' I'd be thinking 'that car has a cracking engine and great traction'.
Perhaps one option is to sell both and switch your emphasis around so you have a more practical (but interesting) daily, and a cheaper weekender that you can fettle? Like a 986 or an earlier 987 cayman?
I've had my TTRS S tronic for 3 yrs explosive power from 1750 rpm helped by a MRC remap of 420 bhp with 663 Nm gets it up the road pretty quickly , excellent traction. They do suffer some understeer which most decent Hunter machine operator can sort out to a degree. But...the lack of steering feel from the electric rack is a let down...If it were possible to have the feel you have been lucky enough have on the fabulous (seriously) RS Megane it would be a wonderful car. Incidentally I did have 19" wheels in pic but ditched the for the OE 18" for handling & less tyre roar. 
KPB1973 said:
I can completely understand where you're coming from with this.
I've had a couple of e92 m3's and 3 x Megane RS'. I did contemplate going from one of the latter to an E93, but I found that the extra weight of the leccy roof blunted the performance of the S65. Even wound up, it lacks the zing of the coupe. I got back in my 275 Cup S and it felt much lighter on its feet and punchier (as you'd expect) in gear.
I keep getting drawn back to the prospect of a 4.0 M3 of some description, but having gone down the porsche route a few times before and since, they are night and day better at the sports car thing.
I've never driven a TTRS so I can't comment much on one, but from a kudos point of view - if that's important to you - if one went past me I wouldn't be thinking 'oh they understeer' I'd be thinking 'that car has a cracking engine and great traction'.
Perhaps one option is to sell both and switch your emphasis around so you have a more practical (but interesting) daily, and a cheaper weekender that you can fettle? Like a 986 or an earlier 987 cayman?
Yeah the megane is leagues ahead of the e93 in terms of pace and delivery and handling and tbh ahead of the e92 as well, but its heavily modified and ligthened so thats an unfair comparision. Getting in the megane after a blast in the m3 is just an eye opener in terms of how light, agile and quick it feels. The zing in the s65 is simply the noise, as ultimately as you say and rightly so, its not from the acceleration/power as such. I've had a couple of e92 m3's and 3 x Megane RS'. I did contemplate going from one of the latter to an E93, but I found that the extra weight of the leccy roof blunted the performance of the S65. Even wound up, it lacks the zing of the coupe. I got back in my 275 Cup S and it felt much lighter on its feet and punchier (as you'd expect) in gear.
I keep getting drawn back to the prospect of a 4.0 M3 of some description, but having gone down the porsche route a few times before and since, they are night and day better at the sports car thing.
I've never driven a TTRS so I can't comment much on one, but from a kudos point of view - if that's important to you - if one went past me I wouldn't be thinking 'oh they understeer' I'd be thinking 'that car has a cracking engine and great traction'.
Perhaps one option is to sell both and switch your emphasis around so you have a more practical (but interesting) daily, and a cheaper weekender that you can fettle? Like a 986 or an earlier 987 cayman?
No you are right and myself, idon't really care for Kudos. I think it was more an observation, that PH'ers seem to give the TT a bad name, yet everyone (here inc.) that have owned one, say its fun and very capable generally despite its foibles of understeer (and mechanically that can be dealt with in a number of ways if you are willing) So i often wonder why it gets so much "dislike" not that it would stop me buying one. But when you are searching for opinions and all you see is negative forum posts, it does start to form a negative impression - and I feel that you need to get over that first before you can start to make a legitimate opinion based on fact when you are looking - at least thats what i do.
A mate has the TTRS if you think the M3 is a little dull you'll be very disappointed IMO
I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
KTMsm said:
A mate has the TTRS if you think the M3 is a little dull you'll be very disappointed IMO
I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
Interested to hear about the reasons behind the dullness? I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
Loved my old e46 - you can't go wrong there in my book. But i've been there and not going there again. I tend not to repeat past cars. Even if i enjoyed them. Too many cars in the world to try
stevekoz said:
KTMsm said:
A mate has the TTRS if you think the M3 is a little dull you'll be very disappointed IMO
I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
Interested to hear about the reasons behind the dullness? I've been looking for similar and bought a Supercharged GT86 - it was a very sideways few months, actually challenging to keep it straight which would be great but I was using it for the school run !
I'm thinking E46 M3 coupe or R33 GTST
Loved my old e46 - you can't go wrong there in my book. But i've been there and not going there again. I tend not to repeat past cars. Even if i enjoyed them. Too many cars in the world to try
The TTRS may be a fantastic car, but it's more of a straight-line hero than the M3 is.
stevekoz said:
Interested to hear about the reasons behind the dullness?
Loved my old e46 - you can't go wrong there in my book. But i've been there and not going there again. I tend not to repeat past cars. Even if i enjoyed them. Too many cars in the world to try
I googled for the first review, they summed it up better than I couldLoved my old e46 - you can't go wrong there in my book. But i've been there and not going there again. I tend not to repeat past cars. Even if i enjoyed them. Too many cars in the world to try
"the TT RS never really materialised into the sports car package we all hoped it would be. The chassis was always capable of putting its prodigious power down, but often struggled when the road became more challenging. It was always a nailed-down, but ultimately flair-free driving experience"
I've no idea why anyone would be surprised that an Audi was dull, should they ever make an interesting car that would be news
KTMsm said:
I googled for the first review, they summed it up better than I could
"the TT RS never really materialised into the sports car package we all hoped it would be. The chassis was always capable of putting its prodigious power down, but often struggled when the road became more challenging. It was always a nailed-down, but ultimately flair-free driving experience"
I've no idea why anyone would be surprised that an Audi was dull, should they ever make an interesting car that would be news
I don't disagree, i've never been one to adorn Audi in adoration. They are fairly clinical and usually fairly dull/benign. But i've not had an RS model nor have i had a TT (though driving in one a fair number of times). "the TT RS never really materialised into the sports car package we all hoped it would be. The chassis was always capable of putting its prodigious power down, but often struggled when the road became more challenging. It was always a nailed-down, but ultimately flair-free driving experience"
I've no idea why anyone would be surprised that an Audi was dull, should they ever make an interesting car that would be news
I did go for a test drive this weekend. Alas the weather was CRAP and I wasn't able to take the car for as long as i'd hoped. The interior was nice. The infortainment was a bit old fashioned and not as good as the i-drive BUT didn't bother me. It was a manual car and was ballistic in a way that the M3 can just never be. Which was "fun" in a way. The engine is not the same kind of occasion as the M3 but in its own way, an event.
Was it exciting? Hmmm the noise/power put a smile on face but as i couldn't get it on any really decent roads to test its handling, i'm not sure excited was the word. But it was certainly a good car. I'd need one for a weekend i think before making the punt. How likely that is, i am very sceptical so IF i do buy one, it won't be that one I saw (too leggy for the money) and ideally want a s-tronic given the "around town" use.
But that leaves the question. What else is there? I really don't want to sell my megane and honestly the price i'd want i doubt anyone would pay for a mk 2 rs french hot hatch.
So i'm left with a budget i stated in the OP and want a "sporty" coupe capable of using daily with back seats. When i say "sporty" i know it won't be a sports car. It can't be, it will be compromised. But Is the GT86 really the only other contender in this space? If so - then maybe just sticking with the m3 is the best bet?? Despite it being gutless - is it really the best handling fun "sporty" coupe in the segment for sub 20k? Its a real shame if thats the case as it weighs nearly two tonnes and is gutless everywhere but an empty dual carriageway or well sighted mountain road. So do i put up with that so i can open the bonnet every now and again and go "ahhh v8". Don't get me wrong, that could be worth it on its own. I am just shocked its the only real contender with itself, in this space.
stevekoz said:
I don't disagree, i've never been one to adorn Audi in adoration. They are fairly clinical and usually fairly dull/benign. But i've not had an RS model nor have i had a TT (though driving in one a fair number of times).
I did go for a test drive this weekend. Alas the weather was CRAP and I wasn't able to take the car for as long as i'd hoped. The interior was nice. The infortainment was a bit old fashioned and not as good as the i-drive BUT didn't bother me. It was a manual car and was ballistic in a way that the M3 can just never be. Which was "fun" in a way. The engine is not the same kind of occasion as the M3 but in its own way, an event.
Was it exciting? Hmmm the noise/power put a smile on face but as i couldn't get it on any really decent roads to test its handling, i'm not sure excited was the word. But it was certainly a good car. I'd need one for a weekend i think before making the punt. How likely that is, i am very sceptical so IF i do buy one, it won't be that one I saw (too leggy for the money) and ideally want a s-tronic given the "around town" use.
But that leaves the question. What else is there? I really don't want to sell my megane and honestly the price i'd want i doubt anyone would pay for a mk 2 rs french hot hatch.
So i'm left with a budget i stated in the OP and want a "sporty" coupe capable of using daily with back seats. When i say "sporty" i know it won't be a sports car. It can't be, it will be compromised. But Is the GT86 really the only other contender in this space? If so - then maybe just sticking with the m3 is the best bet?? Despite it being gutless - is it really the best handling fun "sporty" coupe in the segment for sub 20k? Its a real shame if thats the case as it weighs nearly two tonnes and is gutless everywhere but an empty dual carriageway or well sighted mountain road. So do i put up with that so i can open the bonnet every now and again and go "ahhh v8". Don't get me wrong, that could be worth it on its own. I am just shocked its the only real contender with itself, in this space.
I’m curious too see what your going to do.I did go for a test drive this weekend. Alas the weather was CRAP and I wasn't able to take the car for as long as i'd hoped. The interior was nice. The infortainment was a bit old fashioned and not as good as the i-drive BUT didn't bother me. It was a manual car and was ballistic in a way that the M3 can just never be. Which was "fun" in a way. The engine is not the same kind of occasion as the M3 but in its own way, an event.
Was it exciting? Hmmm the noise/power put a smile on face but as i couldn't get it on any really decent roads to test its handling, i'm not sure excited was the word. But it was certainly a good car. I'd need one for a weekend i think before making the punt. How likely that is, i am very sceptical so IF i do buy one, it won't be that one I saw (too leggy for the money) and ideally want a s-tronic given the "around town" use.
But that leaves the question. What else is there? I really don't want to sell my megane and honestly the price i'd want i doubt anyone would pay for a mk 2 rs french hot hatch.
So i'm left with a budget i stated in the OP and want a "sporty" coupe capable of using daily with back seats. When i say "sporty" i know it won't be a sports car. It can't be, it will be compromised. But Is the GT86 really the only other contender in this space? If so - then maybe just sticking with the m3 is the best bet?? Despite it being gutless - is it really the best handling fun "sporty" coupe in the segment for sub 20k? Its a real shame if thats the case as it weighs nearly two tonnes and is gutless everywhere but an empty dual carriageway or well sighted mountain road. So do i put up with that so i can open the bonnet every now and again and go "ahhh v8". Don't get me wrong, that could be worth it on its own. I am just shocked its the only real contender with itself, in this space.
I like all the cars you’ve mentioned they are all good which makes this interesting.
Regarding Audi TT or GT86 rivals I’d say M235i is definitely worth trying here also the Nissan 370Z.
Maybe ditch the RWD and coupe and get a hot hatch?
I do think you want a more fun M3 with a turbocharger lol.
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