Should squeaky brakes be replaced?
Discussion
Car has 22,500 on the clock and recently get squeaking when braking ( not the wear indicator )
Tried cleaning etc which didn't make much difference.
Pads all round, no drums.
I know how to replace pads myself but I like to leave jobs like this for an experienced mechanic.
Pads from what I can see through the rims are not down to the limit of about 2mm, I'd say about 3mm or so. Obviously I can't check the inner Pads without taking things apart.
From what I know Pads should last about 30,000 miles hence the question.
Car is from 2017 and assume the brakes are stock since the day of production
Thanks.
Tried cleaning etc which didn't make much difference.
Pads all round, no drums.
I know how to replace pads myself but I like to leave jobs like this for an experienced mechanic.
Pads from what I can see through the rims are not down to the limit of about 2mm, I'd say about 3mm or so. Obviously I can't check the inner Pads without taking things apart.
From what I know Pads should last about 30,000 miles hence the question.
Car is from 2017 and assume the brakes are stock since the day of production
Thanks.
Didn't you have a similar issue on your previous car?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
cuprabob said:
Didn't you have a similar issue on your previous car?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
No, that was a persistent squeak when driving around which was really annoying. It would then cease when braking. Even though pads discs and shoes were all new.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
On this car it's just a regular squeak when coming to a stop
Squealing squeaking etc is often caused by high frequency vibration of the metal back plate of a pad against either the piston itself or the edge of the pad vibrating against the caliper.
Invariably when you find the culprit there will be a shiny area where this vibration has been happening.
Cleaning alone won't cure this, it might need a dab of coppaslip on the pad edges, where the pad butts up against the piston i'd suggest not to use coppaslip there because over time it can perish rubber, in this case the piston dust cover, i tend to wipe a little of the correct red brake grease onto the end of the piston.
Invariably when you find the culprit there will be a shiny area where this vibration has been happening.
Cleaning alone won't cure this, it might need a dab of coppaslip on the pad edges, where the pad butts up against the piston i'd suggest not to use coppaslip there because over time it can perish rubber, in this case the piston dust cover, i tend to wipe a little of the correct red brake grease onto the end of the piston.
Brake squeal can be caused by a number of things, but most often by the gas buildup between the pad and disc, a change of pad compound can often cure this, Wookie is the best guy to answer this, he knows more about brake noise than me, as its his job.
When i ran him in a race car, and he mentioned brake noise, i just used to say, well if you can hear them , you know they are working, so shut up lol
When i ran him in a race car, and he mentioned brake noise, i just used to say, well if you can hear them , you know they are working, so shut up lol
MakaveliX said:
cuprabob said:
Didn't you have a similar issue on your previous car?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
No, that was a persistent squeak when driving around which was really annoying. It would then cease when braking. Even though pads discs and shoes were all new.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
On this car it's just a regular squeak when coming to a stop
MakaveliX said:
Today, when braking to a stand still i notice some squeaking. It only makes a squeaking noise toward the end of braking just before coming to a stop.
MakaveliX said:
Gary C said:
These pads may need replacing soon and just wanted some advice
Squeally pads are rarer than they used to be but can be a right pain to resolve. New pads with antisqueal shims should help.
30K on a set of pads is difficult to estimate as its as much about how its driven as the pads/disks themselves. My Subaru STi disks lasted about as long as a set of pads, but as said, I would not be surprised if the inner pad is much more worn than the outside pad
Smint said:
Squealing squeaking etc is often caused by high frequency vibration of the metal back plate of a pad against either the piston itself or the edge of the pad vibrating against the caliper.
Invariably when you find the culprit there will be a shiny area where this vibration has been happening.
Cleaning alone won't cure this, it might need a dab of coppaslip on the pad edges, where the pad butts up against the piston i'd suggest not to use coppaslip there because over time it can perish rubber, in this case the piston dust cover, i tend to wipe a little of the correct red brake grease onto the end of the piston.
Thanks for the info.Invariably when you find the culprit there will be a shiny area where this vibration has been happening.
Cleaning alone won't cure this, it might need a dab of coppaslip on the pad edges, where the pad butts up against the piston i'd suggest not to use coppaslip there because over time it can perish rubber, in this case the piston dust cover, i tend to wipe a little of the correct red brake grease onto the end of the piston.
Look at how much antiseize the mechanic used on my old car. Don't think I'll go back there again
Had my pads replaced in December, squeaking has started again already. If I brake firmly to a A stop, no noise. If I brake lightly to a stop it squeaks
Should I try re bedding them in by some hard 60 to 20 mph stops ? Bear In mind when I got them fitted I didn't bed them in I just drove normally
I have asked around and was told because I do lots of light braking it builds up brake dust which then causes squeaking. So I should try and change this habit and either brake or don't brake, no in-between.
Maybe get the retaining clips replaced ? Although I'm fairly sure all they do is prevent the pads from moving in directions they shouldn't
Should I try re bedding them in by some hard 60 to 20 mph stops ? Bear In mind when I got them fitted I didn't bed them in I just drove normally
I have asked around and was told because I do lots of light braking it builds up brake dust which then causes squeaking. So I should try and change this habit and either brake or don't brake, no in-between.
Maybe get the retaining clips replaced ? Although I'm fairly sure all they do is prevent the pads from moving in directions they shouldn't
Edited by MakaveliX on Friday 31st March 08:47
What car is it OP?
As Andy mentioned (sorry didn't spot this thread before mate!) brake noise is a complex problem and is usually inherent in the design of the whole corner, including but not exclusively the brake assembly.
Squeal is where high frequency stick-slip of the pad against the disc agitates sympathetic resonances in the assembly, usually the caliper, bracket and/or the disc. Cures range from a bit of high temperature brake grease (NOT copper slip) on the pad abutments, changes various aspects of the pads, adding mass dampers to bits of the assembly, all the way to changing disc designs.
It can be obscure, difficult and lengthy to cure practically, resulting in a pain in the arse which is relieved only by complex simulation and modal analysis followed by high frequency data acquisition for validation.
If your car is vaguely modern all of this will have been done on your car in development but because of variances in material, components and driving styles it's not uncommon for some edge cases to slip through.
Driving style is the particularly annoying one, I drove a car on our brakes for about three weeks in a variety of tests and couldn't replicate a noise the customer was complaining about, my boss jumped in and got it to squeal in less than a mile. After checking the telemetry it was down the rate he applied the first bit of brake pressure compared to me.
Assuming you're running OE pads and discs it could be that there's been a slight change of pad material due to sourcing or legislation and it's pushed it into a place where it squeals.
If you're not using genuine OE pads and discs then that would be my first port of call. Failing these are your only real options but none of them are a permanent fix:
- SMALL smear of brake grease (e.g. Daikalub 528D) on the pad abutment pins/plates. Back of the pads if you must but it's very temporary and can cause other issues as it will collect crap. Again don't use Copper slip, if it does work it won't for long and it's more likely it's stopped squealing because the process of dismantling/reassembling has moved things slightly and disrupted the couple that creates the squeal.
- Try a bedding cycle, e.g. 5 or 6 decent brake applies from say 70-40mph with a decent cool down period, then repeat another few times before allowing it to cool right off, all to be done without stopping if possible and don't sit on the brake if you do have to stop. Be aware if this works then chances are it will come back after a while, and may be worse when it reappears.
- Change your driving style, try picking a brake pressure and getting to it quickly rather than building slowly into the amount of pressure you want. Easier said than done I know.
- Remove the disc back plates, it's uncommon but these can be a source of squeal.
- Rebuild or ideally change the calipers. It may be that older calipers are dragging slightly which is enhancing the conditions for the stick/slip to happen. Complete lottery but also if it's a bracket/lug stiffness issue or a resonance in the caliper then you might get lucky with the next ones
- Set fire to it. This becomes increasingly appealing as the process goes on.
Failing all that if you can get a recording of the squeal or download a sound frequency analyser app and get a reading of the frequency of the squeal I can have a punt at guessing what part of the corner it might be, but it might be b
ks.
ETA - Didn't mention about the possibility of calipers
As Andy mentioned (sorry didn't spot this thread before mate!) brake noise is a complex problem and is usually inherent in the design of the whole corner, including but not exclusively the brake assembly.
Squeal is where high frequency stick-slip of the pad against the disc agitates sympathetic resonances in the assembly, usually the caliper, bracket and/or the disc. Cures range from a bit of high temperature brake grease (NOT copper slip) on the pad abutments, changes various aspects of the pads, adding mass dampers to bits of the assembly, all the way to changing disc designs.
It can be obscure, difficult and lengthy to cure practically, resulting in a pain in the arse which is relieved only by complex simulation and modal analysis followed by high frequency data acquisition for validation.
If your car is vaguely modern all of this will have been done on your car in development but because of variances in material, components and driving styles it's not uncommon for some edge cases to slip through.
Driving style is the particularly annoying one, I drove a car on our brakes for about three weeks in a variety of tests and couldn't replicate a noise the customer was complaining about, my boss jumped in and got it to squeal in less than a mile. After checking the telemetry it was down the rate he applied the first bit of brake pressure compared to me.
Assuming you're running OE pads and discs it could be that there's been a slight change of pad material due to sourcing or legislation and it's pushed it into a place where it squeals.
If you're not using genuine OE pads and discs then that would be my first port of call. Failing these are your only real options but none of them are a permanent fix:
- SMALL smear of brake grease (e.g. Daikalub 528D) on the pad abutment pins/plates. Back of the pads if you must but it's very temporary and can cause other issues as it will collect crap. Again don't use Copper slip, if it does work it won't for long and it's more likely it's stopped squealing because the process of dismantling/reassembling has moved things slightly and disrupted the couple that creates the squeal.
- Try a bedding cycle, e.g. 5 or 6 decent brake applies from say 70-40mph with a decent cool down period, then repeat another few times before allowing it to cool right off, all to be done without stopping if possible and don't sit on the brake if you do have to stop. Be aware if this works then chances are it will come back after a while, and may be worse when it reappears.
- Change your driving style, try picking a brake pressure and getting to it quickly rather than building slowly into the amount of pressure you want. Easier said than done I know.
- Remove the disc back plates, it's uncommon but these can be a source of squeal.
- Rebuild or ideally change the calipers. It may be that older calipers are dragging slightly which is enhancing the conditions for the stick/slip to happen. Complete lottery but also if it's a bracket/lug stiffness issue or a resonance in the caliper then you might get lucky with the next ones
- Set fire to it. This becomes increasingly appealing as the process goes on.
Failing all that if you can get a recording of the squeal or download a sound frequency analyser app and get a reading of the frequency of the squeal I can have a punt at guessing what part of the corner it might be, but it might be b
ks.ETA - Didn't mention about the possibility of calipers
Edited by The Wookie on Friday 31st March 09:34
The Wookie said:
As Andy mentioned (sorry didn't spot this thread before mate!) brake noise is a complex problem and is usually inherent in the design of the whole corner, including but not exclusively the brake assembly.
That's why OE pads are developed as a collaboration between the friction material manufacturer, the brake manufacturer & the vehicle manufacturer! Had a braking squeel on my car for a while (weekend car) when braking slow but nothing when braking hard, pads were fine,garage stripped them down and cleaned up the sliders and also cleaned the rust from the outer edge of the pads, put everything back together copper slip where needed and no problems since
The Wookie said:
What car is it OP?
As Andy mentioned (sorry didn't spot this thread before mate!) brake noise is a complex problem and is usually inherent in the design of the whole corner, including but not exclusively the brake assembly.
Squeal is where high frequency stick-slip of the pad against the disc agitates sympathetic resonances in the assembly, usually the caliper, bracket and/or the disc. Cures range from a bit of high temperature brake grease (NOT copper slip) on the pad abutments, changes various aspects of the pads, adding mass dampers to bits of the assembly, all the way to changing disc designs.
It can be obscure, difficult and lengthy to cure practically, resulting in a pain in the arse which is relieved only by complex simulation and modal analysis followed by high frequency data acquisition for validation.
If your car is vaguely modern all of this will have been done on your car in development but because of variances in material, components and driving styles it's not uncommon for some edge cases to slip through.
Driving style is the particularly annoying one, I drove a car on our brakes for about three weeks in a variety of tests and couldn't replicate a noise the customer was complaining about, my boss jumped in and got it to squeal in less than a mile. After checking the telemetry it was down the rate he applied the first bit of brake pressure compared to me.
Assuming you're running OE pads and discs it could be that there's been a slight change of pad material due to sourcing or legislation and it's pushed it into a place where it squeals.
If you're not using genuine OE pads and discs then that would be my first port of call. Failing these are your only real options but none of them are a permanent fix:
- SMALL smear of brake grease (e.g. Daikalub 528D) on the pad abutment pins/plates. Back of the pads if you must but it's very temporary and can cause other issues as it will collect crap. Again don't use Copper slip, if it does work it won't for long and it's more likely it's stopped squealing because the process of dismantling/reassembling has moved things slightly and disrupted the couple that creates the squeal.
- Try a bedding cycle, e.g. 5 or 6 decent brake applies from say 70-40mph with a decent cool down period, then repeat another few times before allowing it to cool right off, all to be done without stopping if possible and don't sit on the brake if you do have to stop. Be aware if this works then chances are it will come back after a while, and may be worse when it reappears.
- Change your driving style, try picking a brake pressure and getting to it quickly rather than building slowly into the amount of pressure you want. Easier said than done I know.
- Remove the disc back plates, it's uncommon but these can be a source of squeal.
- Rebuild or ideally change the calipers. It may be that older calipers are dragging slightly which is enhancing the conditions for the stick/slip to happen. Complete lottery but also if it's a bracket/lug stiffness issue or a resonance in the caliper then you might get lucky with the next ones
- Set fire to it. This becomes increasingly appealing as the process goes on.
Failing all that if you can get a recording of the squeal or download a sound frequency analyser app and get a reading of the frequency of the squeal I can have a punt at guessing what part of the corner it might be, but it might be bks.
ETA - Didn't mention about the possibility of calipers
Hey thanks for the helpful information. Car is a Mazda 3 sport 2017. ( I bought it used in September 2022 )As Andy mentioned (sorry didn't spot this thread before mate!) brake noise is a complex problem and is usually inherent in the design of the whole corner, including but not exclusively the brake assembly.
Squeal is where high frequency stick-slip of the pad against the disc agitates sympathetic resonances in the assembly, usually the caliper, bracket and/or the disc. Cures range from a bit of high temperature brake grease (NOT copper slip) on the pad abutments, changes various aspects of the pads, adding mass dampers to bits of the assembly, all the way to changing disc designs.
It can be obscure, difficult and lengthy to cure practically, resulting in a pain in the arse which is relieved only by complex simulation and modal analysis followed by high frequency data acquisition for validation.
If your car is vaguely modern all of this will have been done on your car in development but because of variances in material, components and driving styles it's not uncommon for some edge cases to slip through.
Driving style is the particularly annoying one, I drove a car on our brakes for about three weeks in a variety of tests and couldn't replicate a noise the customer was complaining about, my boss jumped in and got it to squeal in less than a mile. After checking the telemetry it was down the rate he applied the first bit of brake pressure compared to me.
Assuming you're running OE pads and discs it could be that there's been a slight change of pad material due to sourcing or legislation and it's pushed it into a place where it squeals.
If you're not using genuine OE pads and discs then that would be my first port of call. Failing these are your only real options but none of them are a permanent fix:
- SMALL smear of brake grease (e.g. Daikalub 528D) on the pad abutment pins/plates. Back of the pads if you must but it's very temporary and can cause other issues as it will collect crap. Again don't use Copper slip, if it does work it won't for long and it's more likely it's stopped squealing because the process of dismantling/reassembling has moved things slightly and disrupted the couple that creates the squeal.
- Try a bedding cycle, e.g. 5 or 6 decent brake applies from say 70-40mph with a decent cool down period, then repeat another few times before allowing it to cool right off, all to be done without stopping if possible and don't sit on the brake if you do have to stop. Be aware if this works then chances are it will come back after a while, and may be worse when it reappears.
- Change your driving style, try picking a brake pressure and getting to it quickly rather than building slowly into the amount of pressure you want. Easier said than done I know.
- Remove the disc back plates, it's uncommon but these can be a source of squeal.
- Rebuild or ideally change the calipers. It may be that older calipers are dragging slightly which is enhancing the conditions for the stick/slip to happen. Complete lottery but also if it's a bracket/lug stiffness issue or a resonance in the caliper then you might get lucky with the next ones
- Set fire to it. This becomes increasingly appealing as the process goes on.
Failing all that if you can get a recording of the squeal or download a sound frequency analyser app and get a reading of the frequency of the squeal I can have a punt at guessing what part of the corner it might be, but it might be b
ks.ETA - Didn't mention about the possibility of calipers
Edited by The Wookie on Friday 31st March 09:34
The Mazda OEM pads were squeaking so I replaced them with some mid-range " Apec " ones.
They did not squeak at first but 3 months later they did
I'm not sure if you are saying the bedding cycle is a good idea or not ? I wouldn't want it to make anything worse.
I never really " bed them in " I just drove normally once they'd been fitted
Must be something to do with my braking as my Yaris had new pads and squeaked too. As above my mechanic recommended heavier braking.
Edited by MakaveliX on Saturday 1st April 09:19
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff