Terminating employee contract
Discussion
I’ll try and keep this brief my OH volunteers for a local charity. They have some paid roles including the person in charge. The previous person left for better pay in the private sector, the person they hired to replace her has been causing them concerns. For example lying to staff members regarding what the outcomes of committee meetings are. Her probation period ended a couple of weeks back and the committee members told her they wanted to extend it. But they didn’t manage to have a meeting with her until this week to inform her of the reasons why. She took this quite badly and didn’t agree with any of the points they raised.
The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
Lenovo said:
I’ll try and keep this brief my OH volunteers for a local charity. They have some paid roles including the person in charge. The previous person left for better pay in the private sector, the person they hired to replace her has been causing them concerns. For example lying to staff members regarding what the outcomes of committee meetings are. Her probation period ended a couple of weeks back and the committee members told her they wanted to extend it. But they didn’t manage to have a meeting with her until this week to inform her of the reasons why. She took this quite badly and didn’t agree with any of the points they raised.
The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
Anything could have happened, wrong email address, person is ill, person is ignoring emails, emails going to the spam box etc etc. They need to get her in for a face to face chat or video chat.The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
Not 100% sure that it applies to Scotland.... but in the UK you don't acquire full employment rights for 2 years regardless of probation periods. During that time you can terminate them quite easily as long as it's 'fair' ie performance based and not due to discrimination.
Worth a quick check with an actual employment lawyer though....
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-emplo...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/dismissal/c...
Worth a quick check with an actual employment lawyer though....
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-emplo...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/dismissal/c...
Simple solution.
Write, recorded delivery extending her probation period and asking for written acknowledgement to be received by XX/12/2022. Failure to comply will result in the immediate termination of contract on XX+1/12/2022.
The whole premis of a probation period is confirm (or not) suitability for the role. Extend it by all means, but also can decide the encumbent is not suitable and needs to be replaced.
Write, recorded delivery extending her probation period and asking for written acknowledgement to be received by XX/12/2022. Failure to comply will result in the immediate termination of contract on XX+1/12/2022.
The whole premis of a probation period is confirm (or not) suitability for the role. Extend it by all means, but also can decide the encumbent is not suitable and needs to be replaced.
Carbon Sasquatch said:
Not 100% sure that it applies to Scotland.... but in the UK you don't acquire full employment rights for 2 years regardless of probation periods. During that time you can terminate them quite easily as long as it's 'fair' ie performance based and not due to discrimination.
Worth a quick check with an actual employment lawyer though....
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-emplo...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/dismissal/c...
Fair doesn't mean performance based, just anything that's not unfair (in the employment law sense). This is mostly going to around protected characteristics and discrimination. You don't really need a lawyer.Worth a quick check with an actual employment lawyer though....
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/dismissing-an-emplo...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/dismissal/c...
Draxindustries1 said:
^
This
Forget emails, many dont reply to emails straightaway. I'm one of them, I look at them and reply in the evening at home or when.i feel like it.
The phone is direct and immediate..
The issue with conversations around issues like probation / termination of employment is that unless they are recorded, it comes down to "they said, you said". This
Forget emails, many dont reply to emails straightaway. I'm one of them, I look at them and reply in the evening at home or when.i feel like it.
The phone is direct and immediate..
With a letter or email there is no discussion, the communication is a written and isa a matter of record.
Rushjob said:
Draxindustries1 said:
^
This
Forget emails, many dont reply to emails straightaway. I'm one of them, I look at them and reply in the evening at home or when.i feel like it.
The phone is direct and immediate..
The issue with conversations around issues like probation / termination of employment is that unless they are recorded, it comes down to "they said, you said". This
Forget emails, many dont reply to emails straightaway. I'm one of them, I look at them and reply in the evening at home or when.i feel like it.
The phone is direct and immediate..
With a letter or email there is no discussion, the communication is a written and isa a matter of record.
The employee has less than 2 years' service so they have next to no rights.
So:
If you want to extend their notice period then just do so in writing citing the reasons you've already discussed with them, signed for letter is more than adequate. You then need to put a performance monitoring process in place to make sure you've supported and given the employee every opportunity to resolve the issues.
If you want to terminate their employment then use the same method and terminate their employment with immediate affect, you'll need to pay them any notice stipulated in their contract and any outstanding accrued holiday pay. You don't really need to give any reason other than those you've already discussed.
As the employee doesn't accept that there are issues with their performance this is most likely an employee/employer relationship that has nowhere to go other than option 2.
If you decide that you need formal advice on this you'll find that a Solicitor will just tell you what the law says. An HR consultant will understand the law just as well as the solicitor and be able to give practical advice, write letters etc. The HR Consultant's daily rate will be the same as the Solicitor's hourly rate.
So:
If you want to extend their notice period then just do so in writing citing the reasons you've already discussed with them, signed for letter is more than adequate. You then need to put a performance monitoring process in place to make sure you've supported and given the employee every opportunity to resolve the issues.
If you want to terminate their employment then use the same method and terminate their employment with immediate affect, you'll need to pay them any notice stipulated in their contract and any outstanding accrued holiday pay. You don't really need to give any reason other than those you've already discussed.
As the employee doesn't accept that there are issues with their performance this is most likely an employee/employer relationship that has nowhere to go other than option 2.
If you decide that you need formal advice on this you'll find that a Solicitor will just tell you what the law says. An HR consultant will understand the law just as well as the solicitor and be able to give practical advice, write letters etc. The HR Consultant's daily rate will be the same as the Solicitor's hourly rate.
Lenovo said:
I’ll try and keep this brief my OH volunteers for a local charity. They have some paid roles including the person in charge. The previous person left for better pay in the private sector, the person they hired to replace her has been causing them concerns. For example lying to staff members regarding what the outcomes of committee meetings are. Her probation period ended a couple of weeks back and the committee members told her they wanted to extend it. But they didn’t manage to have a meeting with her until this week to inform her of the reasons why. She took this quite badly and didn’t agree with any of the points they raised.
The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
Mistake. You do not ask the employee to accept an extension of a probationary period you just tell them it has been extended. You don't tell an employee that they will be sacked if they don't accept an extension of a probationary period you just sack them.The committee sent her an email the same day asking her to confirm if she either would like to resign or accept the extension of her probation, giving her a deadline for two days later. She didn’t reply to that so, they sent her another email at the end of the week again asking for her to let them know by the end of the day.
In all the years they’ve been running the charity the committee have never had to deal with something like this so they are completely clueless what to do and being a very small charity they don’t have the money to spend on solicitor’s fees.
As she has not responded to the two emails they sent her can they now just send her another email saying as you didn’t accept the extension we will now terminate your employment as we assume you do not accept the extension? This is in Scotland if it makes any difference.
TL/DR charity want to know if they can terminate someone’s employment if they haven’t replied to two emails asking if they accept an extension to their probation.
One or the other. Otherwise matters get messy.
The Employee is not engaging with the management at the end of their initial probation term.
If I were employing them I’d be questioning how likely is it that they will engage with me in future, there say as little as possible other than “I’m sorry I don’t see it working out therefore I’m terminating your contract”
Pay them everything their owed (hours worked, PILON and holiday accrued) and move on.
If I were employing them I’d be questioning how likely is it that they will engage with me in future, there say as little as possible other than “I’m sorry I don’t see it working out therefore I’m terminating your contract”
Pay them everything their owed (hours worked, PILON and holiday accrued) and move on.
What is the purpose of the Probation Period?
Does the employee gain any additional benefits having completed it that they arent currently entitled to ? ( example: my healthcare didnt start until probation is completed.
Is there any extra support during this period ?
Else, i'm not seeing why it needs extending. Either dismiss the person (no reason really needed at this stage) or if recoverable then managed the performance improvement.
Does the employee gain any additional benefits having completed it that they arent currently entitled to ? ( example: my healthcare didnt start until probation is completed.
Is there any extra support during this period ?
Else, i'm not seeing why it needs extending. Either dismiss the person (no reason really needed at this stage) or if recoverable then managed the performance improvement.
update: she replied to the email saying she did not accept the extension of the probation and does not want to come back, however she wants to lodge a grievance stating that the reasons there was a request to extend her probation were just hearsay. Her grievance request does not actually state what she is looking for as an outcome. The committee have written statements from the staff members that raised the concerns, also the committee were present when she demonstrated some of the behavior that caused them to want to extend her probation.
Why on earth did they want to extend the probationary period of someone who has told lies? It's not like she was struggling to use the software or had a less than satisfactory attendance record. The grievance procedure - and I hope they've got one - can only be used by employees. Is she still an employee?
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