Hybrid or petrol for ULEZ 2023?
Discussion
Hi,
Due to the upcoming ULEZ 2023 expansion I will be in a position where I will have to change 1 of our 2 cars as it will not be compliant to drive in the new ULEZ zones.
I'm looking at buying a hybrid or petrol BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class for around £15k-£17k. I will be travelling into the new zone regularly for work and other day to day activities. The question is do I go hybrid or petrol?
If I go hybrid, how long before I need to fork out for a new battery on these hybrid cars?
If I go petrol, how long before I need to change again? The government will no doubt change the rules again in 5 to 7 years time when all new cars will be electric only and will try to charge petrol cars that go in the ULEZ?
What would you do if you needed a car for the upcoming changes, go petrol or hybrid?
Thanks in advance.
Due to the upcoming ULEZ 2023 expansion I will be in a position where I will have to change 1 of our 2 cars as it will not be compliant to drive in the new ULEZ zones.
I'm looking at buying a hybrid or petrol BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class for around £15k-£17k. I will be travelling into the new zone regularly for work and other day to day activities. The question is do I go hybrid or petrol?
If I go hybrid, how long before I need to fork out for a new battery on these hybrid cars?
If I go petrol, how long before I need to change again? The government will no doubt change the rules again in 5 to 7 years time when all new cars will be electric only and will try to charge petrol cars that go in the ULEZ?
What would you do if you needed a car for the upcoming changes, go petrol or hybrid?
Thanks in advance.
Personally I'd pick the car I like, whether that's hybrid or petrol, as it's just as likely that any future changes to petrol rules will affect petrol hybrids too.
Last year I had the same problem as I had to change my car due to ULEZ, and so opted for a Lexus hybrid, and am very pleased with it. It's an 11 year old car, but I have no concerns about the battery, as they don't often fail, and Lexus warranty them for 15yrs/150k miles. That said there are third parties now who will repair individual cells rather than replace the whole battery.
Last year I had the same problem as I had to change my car due to ULEZ, and so opted for a Lexus hybrid, and am very pleased with it. It's an 11 year old car, but I have no concerns about the battery, as they don't often fail, and Lexus warranty them for 15yrs/150k miles. That said there are third parties now who will repair individual cells rather than replace the whole battery.
I don't think they'll do anything but tailpipe emissions, and they'd only do it by their emissions standard, so Euro6 etc . So Euro4 for petrols on the new system, and then after that its Euro 5 (starting 2009) would be next for petrols if they choose to, followed by Euro 6 (starting 2014).
Whether it's a hybrid or not won't matter, I'm guessing (although they should be better on emissions, and that might be recognised in future).
Whether it's a hybrid or not won't matter, I'm guessing (although they should be better on emissions, and that might be recognised in future).
Since you are comparing hybrid and petrol 3 series, as a F30 330e owner the PHEV is a vastly superior product to the petrol …. IF you are prepared to charge it. Otherwise you won’t get much extra out of it.
For me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
For me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
malaccamax said:
I don't think they'll do anything but tailpipe emissions, and they'd only do it by their emissions standard, so Euro6 etc . So Euro4 for petrols on the new system, and then after that its Euro 5 (starting 2009) would be next for petrols if they choose to, followed by Euro 6 (starting 2014).
Whether it's a hybrid or not won't matter, I'm guessing (although they should be better on emissions, and that might be recognised in future).
Isn't the problem that the tailpipe emissions of a hybrid assume running as a BEV for a while? Or are the quoted g/km emissions on fossil fuel only?Whether it's a hybrid or not won't matter, I'm guessing (although they should be better on emissions, and that might be recognised in future).
Many people have had hybrids with low 'overall' emissions for free entry to various city CAZ and ULEZ, and then just run them on petrol or diesel with the charging leads never coming out of the boot.
From a gov standpoint, at the moment plug in hybrids are classified by their ICE Fuel type and fuel rates reimbursed as such. It's not possible to guarantee that the vehicle runs in it's EV mode during operation in city centres etc so treated worst case scenario.
I've found PHEVs to be the worst of both worlds to be honest. I have a 4 month old C300e, it's about 400kg heavier than a pure ICE and it feels it. The real bugbear is the range/drivetrain though.
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Obviously the inefficiency of the electric drive system is caused by the fact it has to lug around an entire petrol drivetrain and run through the 8 speed box. The petrol engine is then hampered by a dead battery!!
As far as I know PHEVs don't intelligently switch in and out of different drive modes depending on operation unless you use the factory nav solution. This is a dealbreaker for me as I only use google maps or waze.
I've found PHEVs to be the worst of both worlds to be honest. I have a 4 month old C300e, it's about 400kg heavier than a pure ICE and it feels it. The real bugbear is the range/drivetrain though.
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Obviously the inefficiency of the electric drive system is caused by the fact it has to lug around an entire petrol drivetrain and run through the 8 speed box. The petrol engine is then hampered by a dead battery!!
As far as I know PHEVs don't intelligently switch in and out of different drive modes depending on operation unless you use the factory nav solution. This is a dealbreaker for me as I only use google maps or waze.
msportpanda said:
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
This seems odd as every other battery powered (partial or otherwise) vehicle is more efficient at low speeds, even start/stop! Is there something wrong with yours? VS02 said:
Since you are comparing hybrid and petrol 3 series, as a F30 330e owner the PHEV is a vastly superior product to the petrol …. IF you are prepared to charge it. Otherwise you won’t get much extra out of it.
For me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
Jog onFor me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
Charlie1986 said:
VS02 said:
Since you are comparing hybrid and petrol 3 series, as a F30 330e owner the PHEV is a vastly superior product to the petrol …. IF you are prepared to charge it. Otherwise you won’t get much extra out of it.
For me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
Jog onFor me 99% of my journey is done in EV mode, I very rarely have to fill it with petrol because a lot of it is short range journeys. This cost pennies to run.
I get about 22-27 miles of pure EV range depending on the climate. After this, the car becomes a typical hybrid more like a Lexus/Toyota. You will see around 50MPG once the battery is depleted, which isn’t bad but the fuel tank is only 40L. The car still maintains at least some battery regardless thanks to regen, so uses EV power 0-20 mph, as a generator to fill in torque gaps, and when lifting off the throttle and regens when slowing down. So you still won’t deplete that fuel tank that easily.
The 320i and 330i probably would only average around 30MPG .
The car is fast. Thanks to the EV filling in the gaps even when the battery is “dead” - “e-Boost”, you will get 0-60mph in 6 seconds, about the same as a 330i and a lot faster than a 320i. You get the sport automatic transmission as standard with paddleshift.
The potential for tuning is very high. The car comes with 252BHP as standard - 184bhp from the B48B20A engine, and 75hp from the electric motor.
A simple stage 1 map will see it up to a reliable 320-330bhp (the B48 is also used in the 330i, new M135i and MCS amongst other things). Some people are running up to 360BHP (around 4.6/4.7s to 60 with a xHP flash and good tyres) but the engine in the F30 330e doesn’t have as strong injectors as in the B48B20B used in the 330i so I wouldn’t go to that extra power and would stay at a reliable power level.
The current G20 330e now uses the stronger engine and can see up to 400BHP, and can also be equipped with xDrive for ridiculous levels of acceleration (4s or lower!) and also have a much improved range (around 40 miles of pure electric).
It alredy drives really well, the power is relentless and smooth. It is a heavy bugger at 2 tonnes, but the handling isn’t much worse over the standard F30. A standard 330i would drive keener but I believe the 330e is a really compelling package especially at £15-17k!
HTH
mclwanB said:
Might be worth go ogling how reliable the BMW hybrids are-an ex tech I spoke to said very much not and things like the gearbox with integrated motor were about 10k..
The parts are expensive admittedly. I can’t speak for all, but mine is 5 years old , on 74k and no problems whatsoever - and battery health is perfect.Had the PHEV starter motor strengthened and reworked under recall - nothing was actually wrong with it - hopefully no problems in the future, touch wood
. msportpanda said:
From a gov standpoint, at the moment plug in hybrids are classified by their ICE Fuel type and fuel rates reimbursed as such. It's not possible to guarantee that the vehicle runs in it's EV mode during operation in city centres etc so treated worst case scenario.
I've found PHEVs to be the worst of both worlds to be honest. I have a 4 month old C300e, it's about 400kg heavier than a pure ICE and it feels it. The real bugbear is the range/drivetrain though.
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Obviously the inefficiency of the electric drive system is caused by the fact it has to lug around an entire petrol drivetrain and run through the 8 speed box. The petrol engine is then hampered by a dead battery!!
As far as I know PHEVs don't intelligently switch in and out of different drive modes depending on operation unless you use the factory nav solution. This is a dealbreaker for me as I only use google maps or waze.
Good post. I forgot to mention in my own that PHEV’s dont work in everyone’s usage scenarios as well as a traditional hybrid or petrol, or even better, full EV. And currently the electricity tariffs mean its not as cheap as it was once was, but hopefully they will reduce again in the future. OP will have to consider his daily route to see how much EV range will be used… and to see if he can take advantage of free charging ports at work or in town.I've found PHEVs to be the worst of both worlds to be honest. I have a 4 month old C300e, it's about 400kg heavier than a pure ICE and it feels it. The real bugbear is the range/drivetrain though.
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Obviously the inefficiency of the electric drive system is caused by the fact it has to lug around an entire petrol drivetrain and run through the 8 speed box. The petrol engine is then hampered by a dead battery!!
As far as I know PHEVs don't intelligently switch in and out of different drive modes depending on operation unless you use the factory nav solution. This is a dealbreaker for me as I only use google maps or waze.
Does your C300e not act like a traditional hybrid once the range is depleted? I.e low speed ev mode?
PHEV is flawed, but currently £15-17k doesn’t get you much of an EV (Nissan Leaf/Renault Zoe) and IMHO it is still better than ICE at this stage.
I like to think of it as the first step to full electrification. Give it a few years and more EV’s will hit the market and saturate it down enough so that the good ones become more affordable.
I used to hate the idea of electrification but it is really getting compelling. I spent a month with a Renault Zoe and I came out really impressed. The car itself was flawed - ugly, cramped and lacking some basic creature comforts like height adjustable seats and decent headroom, but the powertrain was really impressive for a daily driver. Quick, silent and incredibly economical.
Comparing my 330e to my mum’s Lexus IS300h, the 330e seems to be better 75% of the time in the sense that it is faster, more fun, and more refined and was better for local journeys. But when the battery is depleted it does lose a bit of its charm. The Lexus is quite thirsty, and quite noisy when pushed but the change between petrol is so much more seamless and refined.
Pretty good range for a PHEV
1 mile/kWh - your car is very badly broken
Most PHEV's reserve a small amount of battery (when "empty") for use and you still have the benefits of seamless start/stop, coating and regen
1 mile/kWh - your car is very badly broken
Most PHEV's reserve a small amount of battery (when "empty") for use and you still have the benefits of seamless start/stop, coating and regen
msportpanda said:
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
sattyb said:
Thanks again for the replies. For those of you with a hybrid car, how long do the actual batteries last? Also, has anyone had to replace them and howuch was it? Obviously this is one of the things I think I need to factor in when buying a hybrid.
Thanks
They last for the life of the car. Thanks
dmsims said:
Pretty good range for a PHEV
1 mile/kWh - your car is very badly broken
Most PHEV's reserve a small amount of battery (when "empty") for use and you still have the benefits of seamless start/stop, coating and regen
Fantastic range for a PHEV and thought it would be a good stepping stone into full EV. 1 mile/kWh - your car is very badly broken
Most PHEV's reserve a small amount of battery (when "empty") for use and you still have the benefits of seamless start/stop, coating and regen
msportpanda said:
The range is only circa 60 miles if you're careful, with the recent electricity price hikes it works out at circa £10 to do about 60 miles. The PPM works out around 16p/mile, this is on the motorway in steady state driving. Getting into town, you'll only get about a mile per KWh (30ppm), to put it into perspective a 26T electric truck achieves about the same!!
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
Then once you've run out of electricity, the car kicks into petrol operation only. Then you're getting about 35mpg, 40 at a stretch combined and lugging around 400kg's of dead batteries and motor.
1 Mile per KWh is about right and not out of the realms of possibility considering constant 0-20mph acceleration around central london with consumers such as heating/heated seats. Don't tend to get up enough speed to regen any meaningful amount back into the batteries.
I get about 2-2.5 Miles/KWh on the motorway and considering it's a circa 25KWh battery it's not very impressive considering a mini electric has a similar usable capacity and will do more like 100 miles irl and 145 claimed. Of course, the mini electric isn't dragging around an extra engine and gearbox.
It does make sense but it's frustrating, the electric motor runs through the gearbox so there's plenty of loss through transmission and driveshafts and ofcourse makes regen a lot less efficient too.
Yes it will sort of run like a hybrid at low speeds once the traction battery is "depleted" but it gives up being EV way too quickly. If you even so much as breathe on the accelerator it'll kick the engine in rather than using the emotor to accelerate. I'd say it's more MHEV like in it's behaviour than self charging hybrid once the battery is down.
Bits like that are just frustrating. On paper it seemed like a briliant stepping stone on the way to EV but ulimtately the execution means that it's more a tax dodging machine than a true solution.
sattyb said:
Thanks again for the replies. For those of you with a hybrid car, how long do the actual batteries last? Also, has anyone had to replace them and howuch was it? Obviously this is one of the things I think I need to factor in when buying a hybrid.
Thanks
You won’t need to replace it, unless something goes catastrophically wrong. But this is the same as an engine, you don’t expect to replace an engine unless it goes catastrophically wrong.Thanks
There are still 9 year old Outlander PHEV’s with 160-170k knocking around being sold for 7k+, that’s all you need to know.
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