Which tandem Kayak?
Discussion
I've read many reviews and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer, and sometimes one 'top 10' can even feature 10 completely different kayaks from another.
Some criteria as I know this stuff matters:
- For myself and the Mrs, average height and weight, mostly tandem use but might be useful if it was useable by a single person also
- Plastic (i.e. not an inflatable/blow up)
- Pretty sure a sea kayak will be best, we will mostly use it on Scottish freshwater Lochs (thats a Lake for you Southerners
) but also perhaps some close to shore sea use so it needs to be able to brush off the occasional scrape from a rock or shingle beach
- I think a sit on is likely to be safer/more stable than a sit in for our relatively inexperienced use?
- Seems like a budget of £600-£1000 will get us something that fits the above criteria, we can upgrade later if we get properly hooked and it proves not just to be another garage ornament!
My shortlist so far is the Cambridge Sunfish Double, the Conwy Rhosneigr, the Feelfree Gemini Sport, and the RTM Ocean Quatro, but I can't see a huge amount of difference between any of them so wondered if anyone owned any of the above on here that would recommend or not, or had something in or around the same criteria/budget that I should also be considering?
Thanks
Some criteria as I know this stuff matters:
- For myself and the Mrs, average height and weight, mostly tandem use but might be useful if it was useable by a single person also
- Plastic (i.e. not an inflatable/blow up)
- Pretty sure a sea kayak will be best, we will mostly use it on Scottish freshwater Lochs (thats a Lake for you Southerners
) but also perhaps some close to shore sea use so it needs to be able to brush off the occasional scrape from a rock or shingle beach- I think a sit on is likely to be safer/more stable than a sit in for our relatively inexperienced use?
- Seems like a budget of £600-£1000 will get us something that fits the above criteria, we can upgrade later if we get properly hooked and it proves not just to be another garage ornament!
My shortlist so far is the Cambridge Sunfish Double, the Conwy Rhosneigr, the Feelfree Gemini Sport, and the RTM Ocean Quatro, but I can't see a huge amount of difference between any of them so wondered if anyone owned any of the above on here that would recommend or not, or had something in or around the same criteria/budget that I should also be considering?
Thanks
Bill said:
We have a couple of feel frees (Nomad and a Corona) and they're wearing well. The wheel (I think is their USP) is quite handy.
Thanks, that's good to hear - the Corona appears to be the slightly bigger/3 person version of the Gemini I'm looking at from what I can see?Do you have any of the optional extra seats?
I'm looking at the Cambridge Sunfish double currently which is about £180 cheaper and has seats included - similar size, weight, features etc and unless I'm missing something just can't see where the difference in price goes in some of them
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 28th November 15:11
)seat and paddles. The seats are good, I have better paddles.Sit-ons seem to hold their value if looked after, kept out of the sun.
Used ones seem to be scarce, so new ones seem to be good value.
They are wide compared to a proper kayak, and have the drag factor of the proverbial Bingo Hall.
Doubles are heavy on land and awkward to get on a car roof.
Used ones seem to be scarce, so new ones seem to be good value.
They are wide compared to a proper kayak, and have the drag factor of the proverbial Bingo Hall.
Doubles are heavy on land and awkward to get on a car roof.
I have a new (2 or 3 years ago) Tarpon 13, and a used Ocean Malibu, and it's fine for what we use(d) it for - a bit of river stuff, and a few lakes. We have also been out on the sea in them. Mmmmm, not convincing there.
The lack of a skeg or rudder is problematic in any kind of wind whatsoever, and the inability to balance the kayak is also a problem. So we kept the sit ons in a shed, and bought a pair of sea kayaks, which are much better. The sea kayaks are much much faster, easier to paddle, and more stable in any kind of rough water - though they feel much less so when you get in.
So here's my experience.
Used Ocean Malibu is a fab sit on, it's fast (relatively) and even with moulded seats is comfy, and stable. But it has terrible storage.
Tarpon 13 is much better to look at, has storage hatches, and what appear to be more comfy seats. Though they aren't really. The boat is wide, and therefore slow, and heavy, difficult to get on a car. But all those things make it feel stable. (Though it isn't really)
Sea Kayaks are fast, efficient, and easy to paddle. The are stable and light, and have storage. But you need a bit of basic training and equipment to use them. My advice would be to ignore the sit on kayaks, join a club, and buy some sea boats if you like it.
BTW, any form of sea kayaking is wonderful, wonderful fun, and full of fantastic sights and sounds and scenery, and is absolutely well worth seeking out for the solitude and wonderful feeling of being at one with nature. Hugely recommended.
We did quite a lot in Greece - check out sea kayaking milos. That's well worth a trip in high summer. (And good value).
The lack of a skeg or rudder is problematic in any kind of wind whatsoever, and the inability to balance the kayak is also a problem. So we kept the sit ons in a shed, and bought a pair of sea kayaks, which are much better. The sea kayaks are much much faster, easier to paddle, and more stable in any kind of rough water - though they feel much less so when you get in.
So here's my experience.
Used Ocean Malibu is a fab sit on, it's fast (relatively) and even with moulded seats is comfy, and stable. But it has terrible storage.
Tarpon 13 is much better to look at, has storage hatches, and what appear to be more comfy seats. Though they aren't really. The boat is wide, and therefore slow, and heavy, difficult to get on a car. But all those things make it feel stable. (Though it isn't really)
Sea Kayaks are fast, efficient, and easy to paddle. The are stable and light, and have storage. But you need a bit of basic training and equipment to use them. My advice would be to ignore the sit on kayaks, join a club, and buy some sea boats if you like it.
BTW, any form of sea kayaking is wonderful, wonderful fun, and full of fantastic sights and sounds and scenery, and is absolutely well worth seeking out for the solitude and wonderful feeling of being at one with nature. Hugely recommended.
We did quite a lot in Greece - check out sea kayaking milos. That's well worth a trip in high summer. (And good value).
Thanks for all of the replies and opinions - certainly lots to think about.
I dont want to close off any potential options so will take a step back and a rethink before making any final decisions.
I'll have to make some compromises I'm sure, especially as I'm not keen on doubling or trebling the budget for a top of the line touring sea kayak at the outset - I'd rather get something half-decent to get into it, then upgrade as required.
I dont want to close off any potential options so will take a step back and a rethink before making any final decisions.
I'll have to make some compromises I'm sure, especially as I'm not keen on doubling or trebling the budget for a top of the line touring sea kayak at the outset - I'd rather get something half-decent to get into it, then upgrade as required.
Bill said:
Missed your edit. I can't find any independent reviews for the Sunfish but that does look like a bargain.
I've worked out after a big of digging the cheaper one is LDPE construction rather than MDPE used in the more expensive kayaks so I guess that's why it doesn't necessarily look inferior at a glance.Bill said:
OTOH I sold my sea kayak as it wasn't getting used. Plus how much is a pair of sea kayaks? Cambridge are knocking them out for £500 a piece, but getting one from the likes of P&H is £1200 each.
Yeah, but a P&H is a lovely thing, and something to aspire to (IMO).I bought a Dagger Charleston, and an Esky 15 for about £700 for the pair. They are clearly not as good as something slinky from P&H, but they are more than capable than me, and better than a sit on. I really like the Charleston to be honest - it's comfy, which is great in a sea kayak, coz as you know you're sitting in it for hours.
When I get to the point where I know what I'm doing, and can justify a better boat, then maybe, but for now, I would struggle to understand the difference.
But I still think that sea, and maybe lakes, especially with the waves and a bit of wind is better in a sea / tourer than a sit on.
bearman68 said:
But I still think that sea, and maybe lakes, especially with the waves and a bit of wind is better in a sea / tourer than a sit on.
I reckon we will be using it on freshwater lochs 95% of the time (I am lucky to have a choice of many within a couple of hours drive), so whilst it may be breezy/windy (it is Scotland after all) I doubt it'll see much sea use unless its calm - I cant see my wife fancying a day on the waves.For that kind of use do you still think a sea/tourer will be more stable? From what I'm reading it suggests a sit on would be?
It will definitely have to be 1 tandem for a few reasons - storage space im the garage being one of them, and my wife isn't keen on going out solo as she isn't a confident swimmer (though she can swim) - of course we'll invest in the appropriate safety/wet weather gear.
yellowbentines said:
I reckon we will be using it on freshwater lochs 95% of the time (I am lucky to have a choice of many within a couple of hours drive), so whilst it may be breezy/windy (it is Scotland after all) I doubt it'll see much sea use unless its calm - I cant see my wife fancying a day on the waves.
For that kind of use do you still think a sea/tourer will be more stable? From what I'm reading it suggests a sit on would be?
It will definitely have to be 1 tandem for a few reasons - storage space im the garage being one of them, and my wife isn't keen on going out solo as she isn't a confident swimmer (though she can swim) - of course we'll invest in the appropriate safety/wet weather gear.
It's an interesting question.For that kind of use do you still think a sea/tourer will be more stable? From what I'm reading it suggests a sit on would be?
It will definitely have to be 1 tandem for a few reasons - storage space im the garage being one of them, and my wife isn't keen on going out solo as she isn't a confident swimmer (though she can swim) - of course we'll invest in the appropriate safety/wet weather gear.
When you get on a sit on, it will feel much more stable. It's big and flat, and won't tip much. But you are not able to move your weight to balance the boat, so in a big wave, you have no opportunity to use your weight to do anything. With a bit of skill, the sea kayak will ride really quite big waves - much more than you will be comfortable in - the sit on, much less so. That initial stability actually becomes a hinderance to balancing the boat.
But if you do fall off a sit on, it's easier to get back on.
A sit on is pretty hopeless in the wind - it will always want to turn into the wind, and it will become wearing and hard work to paddle. A touring kayak will have a skeg, and be very stable in wind, almost to the point that it will track across wind with virtually no extra effort.
A sit on you will tend to get wetter and colder. It's hard to stay dry because all the water gets pulled up by the paddle, and you get wet. Really wet and sometimes cold. Much more comfortable sitting in the kayak.
And a sit in is much much faster. With better storage.
But the sit in, does need a bit of skill to use. The skills are relatively easy to master, but can seem intimidating to someone who is starting out. People usually worry about getting out of the boat. Once you've done this a few times, it's really not an issue, but it is a worry when you haven't done it. And getting back in, and draining the water out is more difficult than in a sit on, which is self bailing.
Our progression was to go for a few weeks kayaking in the Med, where the guys were using tandem sea boats. This was such fantastic fun, that when we came back, we bought 2 tandem sit ons to use with the kids. We went on the rivers and lakes, and after a bit the kids didn't want to go any more, so we took the tandem sit ons on the sea. But we found that a bit scary. Especially with the wind, it felt a bit ill equipped to be in the places we were. The trouble is, the places we wanted to be tended to be the exposed headlands, and in and out of the rocky shores.
So we went on a few days coaching with Mick Mayberry in West Wales, which was fabulous, and really really worth while. And then we joined a canoe club, to learn boat craft, and bought a pair of single sea kayaks.
So my journey sounds to be exactly where yours is starting. I kayak with my wife. I can't really swim much, and I don't like being in the water. But I do absolutely love the sea kayaks. They are capable and confidence inspiring, and there is opportunity to learn and progress much more than a sit on.
But in the end, it's a personal decision, and there is no right or wrong answer. I suppose the one thing that most people would say, is join a club. I'm constantly amazed by the free training and equipment that comes with (any) club membership, as well as a good bunch of people to hang around with, paddle with, and just take inspiration from. I belong to a few clubs, and it's a fabulous way to learn, and be inspired. And it's usually very cheap.
I'd definitely encourage you and your wife to kayak. It's a superb sport, and I love the seas and closeness to nature of it. The views are like nothing you will have seen before, and it's great to share those experiences with your spouse. And I'd wish you well in whatever route you chose to take - there's a world of opportunities out there for kayaking the sea in particular, and just so much to have a look at.
bearman68 said:
But I still think that sea, and maybe lakes, especially with the waves and a bit of wind is better in a sea / tourer than a sit on.
It brings its own set of compromises though. The kit's more expensive, the learning curve is steeper, you're more limited by the weaker paddler or the need to go out with a club/group. It's not quite as easy to keep straight and takes a little more effort to paddle, but if we'd gone down the sit in route I suspect we wouldn't have done any of the big days we have in our SoT.
Thanks again gents for the viewpoints, lots to consider.
I now have the opportunity to try out a sit on kayak (Ocean Kayaks somethingorother) on the kind of water we'll use it most of the time, to give an idea of how that might feel.
We have both had a little experience on a sit on tandem at sea off the coast of Riviera Maya in Mexico and admittedly it was choppy and hard to paddle and keep in line, however my feeling is that we are probably unlikely to venture into that kind of environment in the UK until we have a lot of calmer freshwater experience under our belts anyway.
Have also identified a few clubs/rental places not too far from us so will see if we can try a couple more out prior to buying if they are open at this time of year!
I now have the opportunity to try out a sit on kayak (Ocean Kayaks somethingorother) on the kind of water we'll use it most of the time, to give an idea of how that might feel.
We have both had a little experience on a sit on tandem at sea off the coast of Riviera Maya in Mexico and admittedly it was choppy and hard to paddle and keep in line, however my feeling is that we are probably unlikely to venture into that kind of environment in the UK until we have a lot of calmer freshwater experience under our belts anyway.
Have also identified a few clubs/rental places not too far from us so will see if we can try a couple more out prior to buying if they are open at this time of year!
Not sure what the 2nd hand market is like there but I would say it's well worth investigating. I have a P&H Scorpio that's coming on for ten years old and being a tough plastic boat it's still in great shape, and I use it year round so it's done some ice breaking in it's time too 
I've only needed to replace a skeg cable and bungee cord in that time. The lower end pastic boats tend to last very well. Look for the "rental" models of the top brands...
I've only needed to replace a skeg cable and bungee cord in that time. The lower end pastic boats tend to last very well. Look for the "rental" models of the top brands...zax said:
Not sure what the 2nd hand market is like there but I would say it's well worth investigating. I have a P&H Scorpio that's coming on for ten years old and being a tough plastic boat it's still in great shape, and I use it year round so it's done some ice breaking in it's time too I've only needed to replace a skeg cable and bungee cord in that time. The lower end pastic boats tend to last very well. Look for the "rental" models of the top brands...
There's often a few ex rental kayaks about, they abuse them and sell them on. I've only needed to replace a skeg cable and bungee cord in that time. The lower end pastic boats tend to last very well. Look for the "rental" models of the top brands...They buy in bulk and sell after a year, it doesn't cost much to turn them over.
Sometimes you see privately owned plastic kayaks which are heavily faded by the sun.
These will be brittle and may not last long.
People still want real money for them.
Sun damage may be less of a thing in Scotland.
We've binned a few cracked old ones at the sailing club.
If you want a sit-in kayak, old grp ones can be had for beans.
But that's a serious investment in learning to roll, or relying on group support or something.
Whereas we can right and re-board a sit on in the sea, or swim to the side of the river and sort ourselves out.
zax said:
Not sure what the 2nd hand market is like there
I did look and found these:https://www.activeoutdoorpursuits.com/bookings/sec...
They look scuffed to bits and as if they've led a very hard life. I imagine most kayaks that have been used for rentals up here will have been used to some degree on freshwater lochs with typically rocky bottoms and shores meaning they will possibly all be rather battered by the time they are being sold off!
We've got an Ocean Kayak Malibu 2 which we use on rivers and canals. It is a big lump of plastic but will easily take 2 adults and our dog. The dog loves it as it is stable enough for him to wander around, he does occasionally fall in but he has a buoyancy aid with a big loop on the back to hoick him back aboard.
The collapsible webbing seats are essential if doing any distance. Everything does get wet.
Whenever we've been on beach club type holidays they always have sit ons and for pootling around in the sea they have been fine.
The collapsible webbing seats are essential if doing any distance. Everything does get wet.
Whenever we've been on beach club type holidays they always have sit ons and for pootling around in the sea they have been fine.
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