Are modern French cars any good?
Discussion
Having fallen on hard times recently for reasons that I won't go into here, I recently had to sell my mk7 Golf GT Estate, as I could neither afford to pay it off or keep making the monthly payments. In the interim, my parents have very kindly lent me one of their cars, a 2016 Citroen C3 Picasso with the 1.2 Puretech and whilst I am very grateful to have the use of a car, I have very mixed feelings about it. On the plus side, it's pretty comfortable and practical, rides well, has great visibility, barely seems to use any fuel and although it's not to my personal taste (especially in purple), I guess that it has a certain functional style to it. In 6 years of ownership, I also believe it has been pretty reliable for them with the exception of a battery fault and the radio, which has weirdly lost its FM signal and my dad wasn't willing to pay the price to fix! On the negative side, like most French cars that I have driven in the last 20 years, it seems a bit "loose" in the steering and gearchange and although it rides well, the body control isn't great. The biggest surprise is the rather gutless engine. 110bhp in a fairly light car seems like it should be enough but it's the most gutless car that I've driven for a while. It could be down to gearing. 1st and 2nd are quite long, so you have to thrash it and then it goes better in 3rd and 4th but is also very gutless in top gear (5th). Maybe if it had 6 gears and they were more closely stacked and 6th was the same as 5th, it would feel a bit more lively? My Golf was always the opposite. Only a 1.4 TSI, so (150bhp?) but especially with the DSG, I never found the performance wanting and it always felt a lot quicker than the figures might suggest.
Anyway, my point is that I only have the use of this car for a few weeks and need to find a replacement family car for my Golf fairly soon with a budget of not more than 5k (ideally less) and probably some kind of estate/crossover-type car. I admit to having a bit of a "German" car bias, as generally, I just like how they feel and drive better, so I am naturally drawn to a 3/5-Series, C/E-Class or Passat but for that budget you're going to be looking at an older, higher mileage car with potentially costly repair bills.
I have very little experience of recent Citroens/Peugeots/Renaults but I have noticed from a quick trawl through A/T that you can get a much newer, lower mileage car for your money but are they actually any good? With recent events, I was leaning towards a petrol but having been a bit disappointed by the Puretech engine, perhaps a diesel would be better, as you get more of a torque thump and Peugeot/Citroen in particular, always made a pretty good diesel engine. I'm not really sure which models I'm looking at. Peugeot 2008 maybe? The Citroens look a bit "out there" to me and I'm not sure about Renault but I do quite like the look of the Dacia Duster, which is basically a Renault isn't it, in the same way as a Skoda Yeti is a VW (another car that quite appeals)?
So, I know that French cars were pretty decent in the 90s, especially Peugeots but my experience in the motor trade in the early 2000s put me off them, as they seemed pretty garbagey. Are they worth a look today as a good value used buy or am I better off with an older German car?
Anyway, my point is that I only have the use of this car for a few weeks and need to find a replacement family car for my Golf fairly soon with a budget of not more than 5k (ideally less) and probably some kind of estate/crossover-type car. I admit to having a bit of a "German" car bias, as generally, I just like how they feel and drive better, so I am naturally drawn to a 3/5-Series, C/E-Class or Passat but for that budget you're going to be looking at an older, higher mileage car with potentially costly repair bills.
I have very little experience of recent Citroens/Peugeots/Renaults but I have noticed from a quick trawl through A/T that you can get a much newer, lower mileage car for your money but are they actually any good? With recent events, I was leaning towards a petrol but having been a bit disappointed by the Puretech engine, perhaps a diesel would be better, as you get more of a torque thump and Peugeot/Citroen in particular, always made a pretty good diesel engine. I'm not really sure which models I'm looking at. Peugeot 2008 maybe? The Citroens look a bit "out there" to me and I'm not sure about Renault but I do quite like the look of the Dacia Duster, which is basically a Renault isn't it, in the same way as a Skoda Yeti is a VW (another car that quite appeals)?
So, I know that French cars were pretty decent in the 90s, especially Peugeots but my experience in the motor trade in the early 2000s put me off them, as they seemed pretty garbagey. Are they worth a look today as a good value used buy or am I better off with an older German car?
French vs German, the Germans will always win on quality and desirability. But to answer your questions, yeah they're ok if they've been looked after - but those tend to be few and far between at that end of the market. Saying that, a tatty golf could be just as problematic as a tatty Megane, so swings and roundabouts. If you want something inoffensive and reliable that isn't German, I'd probably be looking at the Japanese/Korean manufacturers.
A test I use when considering a particular model of older car is to see how many are available on eBay and AT with starship mileage, what sort of condition they're in, and how much the seller is pushing the "I just spent £100k on this car, buy it for 50p you lucky b
d" angle.
In short, if you can find multiple 200k+ examples in good nick with nothing more than "it's had new tyres recently" then it is reliable enough and one with 50k miles probably has loads of life left in it.
Now, when I was looking at later model hydropneumatic C5s, I don't recall seeing any that passed my test... Which is a shame as I really wanted one. Preferably a V6 estate, but they are rare.
d" angle.In short, if you can find multiple 200k+ examples in good nick with nothing more than "it's had new tyres recently" then it is reliable enough and one with 50k miles probably has loads of life left in it.
Now, when I was looking at later model hydropneumatic C5s, I don't recall seeing any that passed my test... Which is a shame as I really wanted one. Preferably a V6 estate, but they are rare.
parabolica said:
French vs German, the Germans will always win on quality and desirability. But to answer your questions, yeah they're ok if they've been looked after - but those tend to be few and far between at that end of the market. Saying that, a tatty golf could be just as problematic as a tatty Megane, so swings and roundabouts. If you want something inoffensive and reliable that isn't German, I'd probably be looking at the Japanese/Korean manufacturers.
Threads about pre-Peugeot Vauxhalls Vs recent threads about Peugeot-based Vauxhalls would be the exception to this rule it would seem 
My 2020 Renault Megane, I'd say yes. I went to look at a selection of DS7's at the main dealer and it is a hard no from me. Most had condensation in the rear light clusters, one was half filled with water. The one I was given keys for, the electric drivers seat was broken and not in a comfortable position.
French cars of the last 5 years or so have transformed beyond recognition from the Old Top Gear 'Peugeot' drivers trope.
Peugeot especially seem to be nailing it recently. We had a 2017 5008 and it was a much more interesting place to be than the 2019 Q5 that replaced it. Rivalled it for quality too
But before that I'd be wary
Peugeot especially seem to be nailing it recently. We had a 2017 5008 and it was a much more interesting place to be than the 2019 Q5 that replaced it. Rivalled it for quality too
But before that I'd be wary
I bought my first French car - a 2014 C3 Picasso diesel - last year. Never even thought of buying a French car before. In 45 years of driving, I'd never owned one. The C3P was the smallest car that I could find that met my particular need, and it was cheap, so I bought it.
It's a pretty old design, so was never going to drive as nice as a modern car. Very comfy though, and all the space I needed. It changed my ideas about French cars being unreliable rubbish.
When the time came to replace it, I decided to try Citroen's current equivalent - the C3 Aircross. Ended up buying a pre-reg top trim (Shine Plus) 1.2 with 3 miles on the clock. Pretty decent for what is really an appliance. Much more refined than the C3P, especially noticeable at motorway speeds. Goes in a straight line and round corners better too. The most comfortable car seats I've ever sat in.
Seems very well put together, not too much scratchy plastic. Certainly better finished than Korean cars at the same price level.
My only real complaints are with the touchscreen-based controls, and minor stuff like the satnav keypad being in alphabetical order (why not querty?) and 6th gear being a very obvious overdrive (engine bogs down below 60mph on the slightest incline).
I actually find myself using the Aircross more than my M140i, so it can't be that bad.
It's a pretty old design, so was never going to drive as nice as a modern car. Very comfy though, and all the space I needed. It changed my ideas about French cars being unreliable rubbish.
When the time came to replace it, I decided to try Citroen's current equivalent - the C3 Aircross. Ended up buying a pre-reg top trim (Shine Plus) 1.2 with 3 miles on the clock. Pretty decent for what is really an appliance. Much more refined than the C3P, especially noticeable at motorway speeds. Goes in a straight line and round corners better too. The most comfortable car seats I've ever sat in.
Seems very well put together, not too much scratchy plastic. Certainly better finished than Korean cars at the same price level.
My only real complaints are with the touchscreen-based controls, and minor stuff like the satnav keypad being in alphabetical order (why not querty?) and 6th gear being a very obvious overdrive (engine bogs down below 60mph on the slightest incline).
I actually find myself using the Aircross more than my M140i, so it can't be that bad.
The main issue with PSA group Puretech engines seems to be the wet cam belt, which runs in the engine oil to reduce emissions but break down of the belt is leading to blocked oil filters and tappets and also cam belt failures. They are on a 4th or 5th gen belt now and have switched initial cam belt changes to 6 yrs then 12 yrs but the thought of something like that going wrong has really put me off going for a 2008 or C3 Aircross recently. We are looking for a small petrol SUV £12-14k that isn’t plagued with issues. Also the same engine appears in some Vauxhalls now too as there has been some tech share with engines, gearboxes and platforms between them. The Vauxhall Grandland X is a 3008 for example.
The comparing a manual to an auto isn't a fair comparison as the auto is programmed to be in (peak torque at all times, hence the reason they'll be in 4th gear at 30mph.
If you drove the manual version you'd also find it long geared, French cars are pretty much as reliable as the next car the wet belt is a bit of a pain.
At your price point I'd take a good look at the Astra in 1.4t 140 form, they're reliable robust with a nice amount of go.
SRI 140:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211211...
If you don't mind something with more miles the Alfa Giulietta's are a very good option.
Veloce 170:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
The 1.6T Focus is a good option but you're looking at higher miles than the Astra above:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
2.0 Mazda3 Sport:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
With your price point it's harder to find a French option that has grunt & nice spec which is why I suggested the Alfa.
Seat Leon FR:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210241...
If your usage suits a diesel then by all means get one as you'll be open to some great options.
If you drove the manual version you'd also find it long geared, French cars are pretty much as reliable as the next car the wet belt is a bit of a pain.
At your price point I'd take a good look at the Astra in 1.4t 140 form, they're reliable robust with a nice amount of go.
SRI 140:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211211...
If you don't mind something with more miles the Alfa Giulietta's are a very good option.
Veloce 170:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
The 1.6T Focus is a good option but you're looking at higher miles than the Astra above:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
2.0 Mazda3 Sport:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
With your price point it's harder to find a French option that has grunt & nice spec which is why I suggested the Alfa.
Seat Leon FR:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210241...
If your usage suits a diesel then by all means get one as you'll be open to some great options.
I’m should be slightly biased as 100% of the French cars I’ve owned have left me stranded - one set itself on fire on the M62 and one just decided to surrender on the M18.
But I’ve been in a few Peugeot and Citroen taxis recently and they seem every bit the equal of Skodas and VWs. They’re certainly more comfortable.
I’d be happy to give them a go if I was in the market for something they made and reliability certainly wouldn’t be something that would put me off.
But I’ve been in a few Peugeot and Citroen taxis recently and they seem every bit the equal of Skodas and VWs. They’re certainly more comfortable.
I’d be happy to give them a go if I was in the market for something they made and reliability certainly wouldn’t be something that would put me off.
I'm impressed with the other half's 208 (2020).
Not the sort of thing I'd choose myself as, like most run of the mill hatchbacks, it's not very interesting to drive and the engine is as boring as it is gruff- but makes for a good daily driver. Plenty of toys, looks good, quirky interior that's more interesting than any competitor.
Not the sort of thing I'd choose myself as, like most run of the mill hatchbacks, it's not very interesting to drive and the engine is as boring as it is gruff- but makes for a good daily driver. Plenty of toys, looks good, quirky interior that's more interesting than any competitor.
I'd have this French car to be fair - Renault Megane 2.0 dCi GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211241...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211241...
I went from a string of German cars into a last-gen Megane thinking “modern cars are all reliable these days, the days of French electrics being made of cheese are a thing of the past”.
Nope
The bloody thing would just randomly stop working and the resultant bill would normally reach four figures by the time the main dealer had actually worked out what was wrong with it. Sold at 60k miles to some poor sod who’s now probably left with a large French paperweight on his driveway.
Nope
The bloody thing would just randomly stop working and the resultant bill would normally reach four figures by the time the main dealer had actually worked out what was wrong with it. Sold at 60k miles to some poor sod who’s now probably left with a large French paperweight on his driveway.
ZX10R NIN said:
The comparing a manual to an auto isn't a fair comparison as the auto is programmed to be in (peak torque at all times, hence the reason they'll be in 4th gear at 30mph.
If you drove the manual version you'd also find it long geared, French cars are pretty much as reliable as the next car the wet belt is a bit of a pain.
At your price point I'd take a good look at the Astra in 1.4t 140 form, they're reliable robust with a nice amount of go.
SRI 140:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211211...
If you don't mind something with more miles the Alfa Giulietta's are a very good option.
Veloce 170:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
The 1.6T Focus is a good option but you're looking at higher miles than the Astra above:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
2.0 Mazda3 Sport:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
With your price point it's harder to find a French option that has grunt & nice spec which is why I suggested the Alfa.
Seat Leon FR:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210241...
If your usage suits a diesel then by all means get one as you'll be open to some great options.
Thanks. Your suggestions are appreciated as always. I agree that the DSG transmission in my Golf certainly helped it feel quick and probably kept it in the torque peak but I think thete might be more to it than that. The VW TSI engines seem to offer peak torque from about 1500rpm to redline whereas the Puretech felt like "old school" diesel with less torque ie it seemed to run out off puff up up top.If you drove the manual version you'd also find it long geared, French cars are pretty much as reliable as the next car the wet belt is a bit of a pain.
At your price point I'd take a good look at the Astra in 1.4t 140 form, they're reliable robust with a nice amount of go.
SRI 140:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212032...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211211...
If you don't mind something with more miles the Alfa Giulietta's are a very good option.
Veloce 170:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
The 1.6T Focus is a good option but you're looking at higher miles than the Astra above:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202209270...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210281...
2.0 Mazda3 Sport:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211231...
With your price point it's harder to find a French option that has grunt & nice spec which is why I suggested the Alfa.
Seat Leon FR:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210241...
If your usage suits a diesel then by all means get one as you'll be open to some great options.
Bit depressing that most of the options you're looking at 2 generations old, I don't mind one generation. Granted the Focuses you posted are only one generation old but both pre-facelift cars. I'm sure you used to be able to get more car for 5k.
Having looked at the French options in more detail, I'm not sure if it's the answer. It seems like the petrol Puretech engines can develop some issues down the line and this would affect some Vauxhalls too. I wouldn't go for a C3 Picasso and the C3 Aircross is overbudget, I like the latest Megane and Clio but the Clio is too small and the Megane out of budget, Captur is a bit small. Peugeot 2008 a bit small and a bit meh actually but the previous gen 308 isn't a bad-looking car, especially the SW. I'd lean towards diesel, as I think it's Euro 6 and my driving might favour diesel ie mostly A-road and motorway, not much urban. Would you recommend the same models if I went diesel?
By my understanding the Mazda and Toyota diesels aren't very good but how about Honda and Subaru? Someone suggested a Civic but I had a 2013 petrol Civic (FK2?) and it was probably the most disappointing car that I have owned. CRV and Forester diesels are in budget though. A bit older but also looking at X-Type diesel estates, as they seem quite posh, cheap and being Mondeo-based might be cheap to run/fix?
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