M4 smart motorway finished at last

[SydneyBridge]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

[anonymous-user]

Hurrah. No more closures, causes havoc when visiting the in-laws in West London.
Most journeys there are numptys doing 60 in lane 3 of 4. But with the frequent cameras it’s more like a freeway now anyway. Just pass in whatever lane you happen to be in.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 6th December 16:46

[Bannock]

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Vicious circle, innit. I live in Reading and often drive to London and points in between on the M4. I know how to use a smart motorway, but I simply don't trust anyone else to get it right nor the operators to close lanes quickly enough in the event of an accident or breakdown, and subsequently will not drive in the left-hand lane. I know that's not the "right" thing to do, but I am simply not taking the chance of approaching a stationary vehicle in the left lane and not being able to safely move right because of traffic to my right.

[normalbloke]

Bannock said:

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Vicious circle, innit. I live in Reading and often drive to London and points in between on the M4. I know how to use a smart motorway, but I simply don't trust anyone else to get it right nor the operators to close lanes quickly enough in the event of an accident or breakdown, and subsequently will not drive in the left-hand lane. I know that's not the "right" thing to do, but I am simply not taking the chance of approaching a stationary vehicle in the left lane and not being able to safely move right because of traffic to my right.

Is your observation lacking?

[Bannock]

normalbloke said:

Bannock said:

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Vicious circle, innit. I live in Reading and often drive to London and points in between on the M4. I know how to use a smart motorway, but I simply don't trust anyone else to get it right nor the operators to close lanes quickly enough in the event of an accident or breakdown, and subsequently will not drive in the left-hand lane. I know that's not the "right" thing to do, but I am simply not taking the chance of approaching a stationary vehicle in the left lane and not being able to safely move right because of traffic to my right.

Is your observation lacking?

No. But that of other people is. For example:

https://mobile.twitter.com/tvprp/status/1598694324...

[999gsi]

normalbloke said:

Bannock said:

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Vicious circle, innit. I live in Reading and often drive to London and points in between on the M4. I know how to use a smart motorway, but I simply don't trust anyone else to get it right nor the operators to close lanes quickly enough in the event of an accident or breakdown, and subsequently will not drive in the left-hand lane. I know that's not the "right" thing to do, but I am simply not taking the chance of approaching a stationary vehicle in the left lane and not being able to safely move right because of traffic to my right.

Is your observation lacking?

+1

[megaphone]

Maybe now they'll drop the unnecessary 60MPH limit that appears to always be in place when I drive into town.

There again, they can earn a bit more cash if they keep it.

[Zarco]

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Bannock has rather proved your point.

[littleredrooster]

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Indeed - how to use it. And not just 'how to use it', but 'what type of motorway scheme am I using?'

The UK currently has four (I think...) types of Motorway Schemes:
1. 'Normal' Motorways
2. 'All Lanes Running' schemes
3. 'Dynamic Hard Shoulder' schemes
4. 'Controlled Motorway' schemes

As far as I can see, minimal education has taken place for Joe Public, so how are they (...we...) supposed to know how all of these variations operate? Confusion abounds, if my close friends are anything to judge by. Am I on a type 3 or type 4 motorway at the moment?

I worked for the HA in the formative years of all of this and have sat around tables on various committees discussing these changes and still don't fully comprehend how I know what rules apply on any given bit of motorway in the country.

IMO, it's an absolute shambles - how the juddering f*ck does (e.g.) a French visitor know what 'type' of 'motorway scheme' he/she is driving on at any given time? Is there anything similar anywhere else on the continent? After having driven all over Europe for the past forty years, I would suggest not.

We have made an utter dog's dinner of our major road system.

[Mineral1]

In practice though all of the final three on your list there look and feel very similar, the only real difference I can see in practice is that on some of them the hard shoulder gets used as a running lane but only for traffic leaving at the next junction. The signs do tell you that though.

[littleredrooster]

Mineral1 said:

In practice though all of the final three on your list there look and feel very similar, the only real difference I can see in practice is that on some of them the hard shoulder gets used as a running lane but only for traffic leaving at the next junction. The signs do tell you that though.

Disagree - the signs often say 'Report of Debris' or 'A46 Closed After A57' or whatever and show no clue as to the use of the left-hand lane (or hard shoulder, as it used to be called). Should I use this lane or not?

[MK4-RS-SPORT300-2022]

Last few weeks they have put the limit up to 70 in places...then rapidly back down to 60 for no visible reason.....thats going to cause big pileups if they continue like that as many cars cannot shave 10mph off their speed that quickly...!

[Bannock]

littleredrooster said:

SydneyBridge said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-63...

Now they just need to teach people how to use it....

Indeed - how to use it. And not just 'how to use it', but 'what type of motorway scheme am I using?'

The UK currently has four (I think...) types of Motorway Schemes:
1. 'Normal' Motorways
2. 'All Lanes Running' schemes
3. 'Dynamic Hard Shoulder' schemes
4. 'Controlled Motorway' schemes

As far as I can see, minimal education has taken place for Joe Public, so how are they (...we...) supposed to know how all of these variations operate? Confusion abounds, if my close friends are anything to judge by. Am I on a type 3 or type 4 motorway at the moment?

I worked for the HA in the formative years of all of this and have sat around tables on various committees discussing these changes and still don't fully comprehend how I know what rules apply on any given bit of motorway in the country.

IMO, it's an absolute shambles - how the juddering f*ck does (e.g.) a French visitor know what 'type' of 'motorway scheme' he/she is driving on at any given time? Is there anything similar anywhere else on the continent? After having driven all over Europe for the past forty years, I would suggest not.

We have made an utter dog's dinner of our major road system.

No no no. Your observation is lacking. PH hardmen say so.

[DocJock]

Bannock said:

No no no. Your observation is lacking. PH hardmen say so.

Nothing to do with 'hardmen'.

You should be observing the road ahead up to and beyond your stopping distance. That is why people pulled you up on your BS excuse for not using L1.

[Bannock]

DocJock said:

Bannock said:

No no no. Your observation is lacking. PH hardmen say so.

Nothing to do with 'hardmen'.

You should be observing the road ahead up to and beyond your stopping distance. That is why people pulled you up on your BS excuse for not using L1.

And when there's a constant procession of nose to tail traffic in lane 2 which refuses to let you in, or cannot move to lane 3 for you because that lane is also full, as it always is on that stretch of the M4, and you observe a stranded vehicle in lane 1, where do you go? Let's off road, it's gripped, sorted? Remember, this project was only undertaken because it was seen as a cheap answer to endemic congestion on the road. Sure, on a clear day, good conditions, light traffic, no problem with being in Lane 1. But we're talking about the M4 Maidenhead-London section, one of the busiest motorways on the planet. Changing lanes is often difficult, let alone in a an emergency situation where you are suddenly presented with a stationary vehicle in your lane and the drivers in front of you are braking, swerving, panicking and the traffic to your right is solid. You're aware of the phenomenon of accidents happening not only at the site of an incident/breakdown, but the wave effect on the approaching traffic leading to further accidents at pints before the incident/breakdown?

Ok, maybe not hardmen. Driving Gods. Heroes with extra sensory perception who cannot imagine simple scenarios in which these types of motorway arrangements can go significantly wrong, very quickly, because they are above all that.

Why do we think the roll out of smart motorways has been paused? This project (the M4) has been allowed to complete because it was already underway and it would have been a worse option to leave cones and roadworks in place whilst the implications of smart motorways finally gets examined properly.

So forgive me, this is far from "BS".

The conundrum about smart motorways, is that they're only really suited to areas with light traffic. Which is of course the place where extra capacity is needed the least. The places we're building them, where traffic is heavy and extra capacity is needed, are the least suitable places imaginable for motorways without hard shoulders.

And yeah, I can observe perfectly well, thanks very much. Now what about the tailgating s in the Audi and overloaded Sprinter van behind me with target fixation on my trumpet?

Edited by Bannock on Wednesday 7th December 09:30

[Largechris]

Bannock said:

DocJock said:

Bannock said:

No no no. Your observation is lacking. PH hardmen say so.

Nothing to do with 'hardmen'.

You should be observing the road ahead up to and beyond your stopping distance. That is why people pulled you up on your BS excuse for not using L1.

And when there's a constant procession of nose to tail traffic in lane 2 which refuses to let you in, or cannot move to lane 3 for you because that lane is also full, as it always is on that stretch of the M4, and you observe a stranded vehicle in lane 1, where do you go? Let's off road, it's gripped, sorted? Remember, this project was only undertaken because it was seen as a cheap answer to endemic congestion on the road. Sure, on a clear day, good conditions, light traffic, no problem with being in Lane 1. But we're talking about the M4 Maidenhead-London section, one of the busiest motorways on the planet. Changing lanes is often difficult, let alone in a an emergency situation where you are suddenly presented with a stationary vehicle in your lane and the drivers in front of you are braking, swerving, panicking and the traffic to your right is solid. You're aware of the phenomenon of accidents happening not only at the site of an incident/breakdown, but the wave effect on the approaching traffic leading to further accidents at pints before the incident/breakdown?

Ok, maybe not hardmen. Driving Gods. Heroes with extra sensory perception who cannot imagine simple scenarios in which these types of motorway arrangements can go significantly wrong, very quickly, because they are above all that.

Why do we think the roll out of smart motorways has been paused? This project (the M4) has been allowed to complete because it was already underway and it would have been a worse option to leave cones and roadworks in place whilst the implications of smart motorways finally gets examined properly.

So forgive me, this is far from "BS".

The conundrum about smart motorways, is that they're only really suited to areas with light traffic. Which is of course the place where extra capacity is needed the least. The places we're building them, where traffic is heavy and extra capacity is needed, are the least suitable places imaginable for motorways without hard shoulders.

And yeah, I can observe perfectly well, thanks very much. Now what about the tailgating s in the Audi and overloaded Sprinter van behind me with target fixation on my trumpet?

Edited by Bannock on Wednesday 7th December 09:30

Personally, I cannot conceive of the possibility of driving into the back of a stationary vehicle. On the motorway or anywhere else.
I accept lots of people do, I seem to see the aftermath of a tail ender every other day at the moment.

But accuse me of being superhuman, having ESP, wizard powers, or being guided by sweet baby Jesus in the passenger seat, I can't see how it's possible for any sentient adult to drive into a stationary object.

[Bannock]

Largechris said:

Personally, I cannot conceive of the possibility of driving into the back of a stationary vehicle. On the motorway or anywhere else.
I accept lots of people do, I seem to see the aftermath of a tail ender every other day at the moment.

But accuse me of being superhuman, having ESP, wizard powers, or being guided by sweet baby Jesus in the passenger seat, I can't see how it's possible for any sentient adult to drive into a stationary object.

Ah but they do. I have even posted a link to photographic evidence of such in this very thread. The problem isn't you or me driving into the rear of a stationary vehicle. It's others doing it, and the behaviour of other drivers around that situation, which can lead to you being driven in to. There are seldom any good escape routes on a smart motorway if someone is hell bent on driving into your vehicle.

Try conceiving of things beyond a single narrow point of the situation. Other drivers are useless, and I don't trust a single one of them. Add in broken down vehicles in live traffic lanes, and the risk of being involved in someone else's idiocy increases. I intend to mitigate this risk.

[Fozziebear]

I only use the outside lane, rest are full of maniacs

[Largechris]

Bannock said:

Largechris said:

Personally, I cannot conceive of the possibility of driving into the back of a stationary vehicle. On the motorway or anywhere else.
I accept lots of people do, I seem to see the aftermath of a tail ender every other day at the moment.

But accuse me of being superhuman, having ESP, wizard powers, or being guided by sweet baby Jesus in the passenger seat, I can't see how it's possible for any sentient adult to drive into a stationary object.

Ah but they do. I have even posted a link to photographic evidence of such in this very thread. The problem isn't you or me driving into the rear of a stationary vehicle. It's others doing it, and the behaviour of other drivers around that situation, which can lead to you being driven in to. There are seldom any good escape routes on a smart motorway if someone is hell bent on driving into your vehicle.

Try conceiving of things beyond a single narrow point of the situation. Other drivers are useless, and I don't trust a single one of them. Add in broken down vehicles in live traffic lanes, and the risk of being involved in someone else's idiocy increases. I intend to mitigate this risk.

Right ho. Most other drivers are idiots. Agreed. Let's campaign for better driving, arresting people, driving bans being enforced, prison for repeat offenders, compulsory retests, trackers, limiters, active cruise controls etc. etc. rather than blame perfectly harmless motorways.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Bannock said:

Vicious circle, innit. I live in Reading and often drive to London and points in between on the M4. I know how to use a smart motorway, but I simply don't trust anyone else to get it right nor the operators to close lanes quickly enough in the event of an accident or breakdown, and subsequently will not drive in the left-hand lane. I know that's not the "right" thing to do, but I am simply not taking the chance of approaching a stationary vehicle in the left lane and not being able to safely move right because of traffic to my right.

What happens if you come up to a stranded vehicle on a 'non-smart' motorway? Or do you also refuse to use lane 1 on those?