Am I suffering from a failure of imagination?
Discussion
been looking at EV's for the next wagon for Mrs DG and whilst there is an ever increasing choice I'm not sure it's wide enough to offer what we want.... Mrs DG loved her GLC as a (reasonably) good looking car; comfortable; practical; nice/useful toy count (360 camera; heated/memory seats; pano-roof); economical(ish); drove ok. The idea is lose the Superb and SLC and get one car for her instead (Challenger is staying).
Currently the Model Y LR s romping home as the choice. Drives nicely enough; offers a very good/useful range; good interior space; possibly a little bland to look at
, but not wilfully ugly <cough>Nissan Juke<cough>. Probably end up getting a HUD if we went down this route. One issue is that £60k is a LOT of ££ (but then most of the toys wanted/needed are included in the price). The major plus for the Telsa is the charging network and the fact that everything just (seems) to work without having to rely on a dozen different apps and accounts to use the various other charging options.
all other things being equal we'd probably jump on an iPace HSE: lovely interior and genuinely good looking (not just 'for an EV); apparently lovely to drive too. However £75k is just insane (aka waaaay over our budget), the range is lacking, second hand just really float our boat and there's the concern about Jag reliability (and indeed Jaguar as a going concern)
the EV6 doesn't grab us
the Ionic5 looks great and seems quite pleasant inside (not driven one yet). In ultimate spec it's similarly priced to the Y (albeit a little smaller/less practical); the range is reasonable and being Hyundai the warranty is excellent (so that'd be one worry less!)
Genesis GV60 looks great/quirky but gets expensive quickly and is quite small
the Enyaq seems better than its VAG siblings, but concerns have been raised about the ISA for the ID4 so I'd imagine that the Skoda shares this. Pricewise, by the time you spec it up it's about 10% less than the Y (so still not cheap)
Mustang seems quite expensive to get the 'right' spec
Volvo too dear and Chinese owned
MG dubious build quality and Chinese owned
Skoda Karoq. Petrol and substantially cheaper than the EVs (even allowing for the £40k extra tax business) but what are ICE residuals going to be like in 3 or 4 years time?
I know it's a subject been done to death but, any thoughts
Currently the Model Y LR s romping home as the choice. Drives nicely enough; offers a very good/useful range; good interior space; possibly a little bland to look at
, but not wilfully ugly <cough>Nissan Juke<cough>. Probably end up getting a HUD if we went down this route. One issue is that £60k is a LOT of ££ (but then most of the toys wanted/needed are included in the price). The major plus for the Telsa is the charging network and the fact that everything just (seems) to work without having to rely on a dozen different apps and accounts to use the various other charging options.all other things being equal we'd probably jump on an iPace HSE: lovely interior and genuinely good looking (not just 'for an EV); apparently lovely to drive too. However £75k is just insane (aka waaaay over our budget), the range is lacking, second hand just really float our boat and there's the concern about Jag reliability (and indeed Jaguar as a going concern)
the EV6 doesn't grab us
the Ionic5 looks great and seems quite pleasant inside (not driven one yet). In ultimate spec it's similarly priced to the Y (albeit a little smaller/less practical); the range is reasonable and being Hyundai the warranty is excellent (so that'd be one worry less!)
Genesis GV60 looks great/quirky but gets expensive quickly and is quite small
the Enyaq seems better than its VAG siblings, but concerns have been raised about the ISA for the ID4 so I'd imagine that the Skoda shares this. Pricewise, by the time you spec it up it's about 10% less than the Y (so still not cheap)
Mustang seems quite expensive to get the 'right' spec
Volvo too dear and Chinese owned
MG dubious build quality and Chinese owned
Skoda Karoq. Petrol and substantially cheaper than the EVs (even allowing for the £40k extra tax business) but what are ICE residuals going to be like in 3 or 4 years time?
I know it's a subject been done to death but, any thoughts
I've only got experience of Tesla - model 3 LR, two years and 27,000 miles in.
I don't think you can go wrong with a model Y. But if I was looking again now, there is so much more choice.
When I bought, the supercharger network was what actually swung it. If you did big miles then I think Tesla would still edge it.
I quite like those new MGs and that would be on my list.
But it is a much harder decision today than it was two years ago - and it's going to continue as more come to market.
I am probably going to stick with my tesla for at least another couple of years.
I don't think you can go wrong with a model Y. But if I was looking again now, there is so much more choice.
When I bought, the supercharger network was what actually swung it. If you did big miles then I think Tesla would still edge it.
I quite like those new MGs and that would be on my list.
But it is a much harder decision today than it was two years ago - and it's going to continue as more come to market.
I am probably going to stick with my tesla for at least another couple of years.
If she likes the GLC then how about an EQC? Low mileage, good spec 2020 cars can be had for < £50k. Warranty can be extended from 3 to 6 years for a reasonable cost.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212152...
A very nice place to spend time, beautifully built and considerably more 'normal' in approach than a Tesla. Unless you are going to rely on public charging very regularly I wouldn't worry too much about apps/cards as really not that complicated.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212152...
A very nice place to spend time, beautifully built and considerably more 'normal' in approach than a Tesla. Unless you are going to rely on public charging very regularly I wouldn't worry too much about apps/cards as really not that complicated.
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even buy a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Edited by NS66 on Tuesday 20th December 15:01
If you find that many new EVs are unaffordable today for your budget, that's only going to get worse in the short term.
Regarding having a non Tesla EV and needing loads of apps, I have one charging card and app, that works across multiple networks in this country and across Europe. It's really easy.
That was provided by BMW for my iX and all charges are billed to my account and it even offers significantly discounted rates for many rapid chargers.
Similar schemes exist for other manufacturers.
Regarding having a non Tesla EV and needing loads of apps, I have one charging card and app, that works across multiple networks in this country and across Europe. It's really easy.
That was provided by BMW for my iX and all charges are billed to my account and it even offers significantly discounted rates for many rapid chargers.
Similar schemes exist for other manufacturers.
NS66 said:
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even but a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Nope. They don't all drive the same. Just like a ford fiesta doesn't drive the same as a Bentley.I'd love to suggest the BMW i4 M50 but they still seem completely stuck actually producing and delivering the things so... I can't.
Yes the iPace is a lovely car and a big step up in terms of real luxury touches vs the Tesla, also some great tech like land rovers terrain response kit, air suspension and a simply staggering sound system. But, all at a high cost. Even the HSE model you're looking at ideally needs (first world 'needs') a few extra options, so it's all said and done actually closer to an £80k car.
Much as I adore mine and do justify the cost, It is an £80k Jaguar and we all know what the residuals can be like for the Marque in general, and as you say, the company itself is now not in the smoothest of seas after a few years of terrible management. I can't hand on heart encourage anyone to consider investing £70-80k in a car that has even the slightest possibility of losing values if the company that made it won't be able to honour the warrenty or produce spare parts, it would destroy the value of the car. Mine was on a great lease deal, not purchase, but that's a thing of the past now it seems.
Tbh it's very hard to beat the Model Y LR for the price, and there actually are some really very good lease deals for them too right now - so you have that option too.
Yes the iPace is a lovely car and a big step up in terms of real luxury touches vs the Tesla, also some great tech like land rovers terrain response kit, air suspension and a simply staggering sound system. But, all at a high cost. Even the HSE model you're looking at ideally needs (first world 'needs') a few extra options, so it's all said and done actually closer to an £80k car.
Much as I adore mine and do justify the cost, It is an £80k Jaguar and we all know what the residuals can be like for the Marque in general, and as you say, the company itself is now not in the smoothest of seas after a few years of terrible management. I can't hand on heart encourage anyone to consider investing £70-80k in a car that has even the slightest possibility of losing values if the company that made it won't be able to honour the warrenty or produce spare parts, it would destroy the value of the car. Mine was on a great lease deal, not purchase, but that's a thing of the past now it seems.
Tbh it's very hard to beat the Model Y LR for the price, and there actually are some really very good lease deals for them too right now - so you have that option too.
raspy said:
NS66 said:
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even but a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Nope. They don't all drive the same. Just like a ford fiesta doesn't drive the same as a Bentley.We just went through the exact same process as you and concluded that the Tesla Y was the only EV that made sense still - fewest concerns overs charging on long journeys, proven track record so reliable range and good performance. However we were put off by it not feeling like a £60k car, it lacking basic essentials (for us) like CarPlay and an electric retracting towbar rather than a nasty detachable. Sure we could put up without them, but I’m not spending £60k on a car to have to put up with stuff.
So we ended up buying a PHEV - Volvo XC60 Recharge - clean emissions on short journeys and no worries over range on long journeys; plus all the toys including CarPlay, a proper towbar and nice styling inside and out. And fun performance when you do want to play/overtake. It will tide us over for another 5 years or so until high speed charging networks have matured a bit more and there’s a decent choice of cars.
So we ended up buying a PHEV - Volvo XC60 Recharge - clean emissions on short journeys and no worries over range on long journeys; plus all the toys including CarPlay, a proper towbar and nice styling inside and out. And fun performance when you do want to play/overtake. It will tide us over for another 5 years or so until high speed charging networks have matured a bit more and there’s a decent choice of cars.
NS66 said:
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even buy a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Please ignore people who talk rubbish like this chap and buy the EV you like the most.Edited by NS66 on Tuesday 20th December 15:01
All drive the same..
On our 3rd now and have driven many more, all have driven just as differently as a similarly diverse group of ICE vehicles.NS66 said:
Nope . I beg to differ they do drive all the same or at least very similar due to the nature of the powerplant mainly. - all auto single gear etc etc. A petrol or diesel car manual or auto has gears, has different torque curves some with low down power some with power at the top. Then noise of course an ICE makes noise - and a Fiesta will sound much different to a Alfa for example.
Absolute b
ks. Ours have been an i3, Model 3 P and etron 55.The i3 felt like a RWD hot hatch with limited grip and a drivetrain that gave it's best very quickly and ran out of steam. The Model 3 P was utterly ballistic, had whipcrack throttle response like a large capacity high revving N/A engine and very direct steering, the etron is much softer in all its responses with lighter steering, far more comfortable suspension and power delivery that feels more like a torquey V8. Basically all as diffetent to drive and live with as you'd imagine. They also all sound different funnily enough.
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 20th December 15:51
SWoll said:
NS66 said:
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even buy a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Please ignore people who talk rubbish like this chap and buy the EV you like the most.Edited by NS66 on Tuesday 20th December 15:01
All drive the same..
On our 3rd now and have driven many more, all have driven just as differently as a similarly diverse group of ICE vehicles.NS66 said:
SWoll said:
NS66 said:
If you have north of £50K to waste sorry spend on a new EV - I would suggest getting an MG4 (yes chinese but not bad) or a Kia Niro EV ( yes Korean and not bad) they all have their faults. With the change invest it or treat yourself to some holidays or even buy a nice classic if you have space to garage? rationale - new EV's are just pods to get you from A>B nothing else, no soul - all drive the same!
Please ignore people who talk rubbish like this chap and buy the EV you like the most.Edited by NS66 on Tuesday 20th December 15:01
All drive the same..
On our 3rd now and have driven many more, all have driven just as differently as a similarly diverse group of ICE vehicles.DodgyGeezer said:
Currently the Model Y LR s romping home as the choice. Drives nicely enough; offers a very good/useful range; good interior space; possibly a little bland to look at , but not wilfully ugly <cough>Nissan Juke<cough>. Probably end up getting a HUD if we went down this route. One issue is that £60k is a LOT of ££ (but then most of the toys wanted/needed are included in the price). The major plus for the Telsa is the charging network and the fact that everything just (seems) to work without having to rely on a dozen different apps and accounts to use the various other charging options.
I know it's a subject been done to death but, any thoughts
I chose a Tesla LR because of the charging network. But it turns out that I rarely (if ever) charge away from home...., but not wilfully ugly <cough>Nissan Juke<cough>. Probably end up getting a HUD if we went down this route. One issue is that £60k is a LOT of ££ (but then most of the toys wanted/needed are included in the price). The major plus for the Telsa is the charging network and the fact that everything just (seems) to work without having to rely on a dozen different apps and accounts to use the various other charging options.I know it's a subject been done to death but, any thoughts
I'm still pleased I have the Tesla, it works very well for me.
NS66 said:
Nope . I beg to differ they do drive all the same or at least very similar due to the nature of the powerplant mainly. - all auto single gear etc etc. A petrol or diesel car manual or auto has gears, has different torque curves some with low down power some with power at the top. Then noise of course an ICE makes noise - and a Fiesta will sound much different to a Alfa for example.
EVs vary too. Some run out of puff at 50mph, some seem to keep pulling hard, no matter how much above the legal limit you go. Driving a car is not just about the powerplant though.
It's about steering, the suspension and much more. Some EVs can't handle a mid corner bump very well but some can.
BTW - Some EVs do make noises now (inside the cabin) based upon driving mode
NS66 said:
I can beat you there I am on my 5th EV and yep they all drive the same to me - might have a few more toys and gizsmo's but inherently you get in put your foot on brake, press a button, select D and drive off in silence! well a slight fake whine!! . doesnt matter if its a Tesla or a Leaf all the same IMHO
I'd question the quality of your senses if that is the case. How is the same argument not true for ICE and 4 cylnder with a manual gearbox, or evey 6 cylinder auto if that is the case?All you are describing is the act of driving an EV, not the sensation or experience. It's like suggesting every woman you've ever slept with is the same.
SWoll said:
NS66 said:
I can beat you there I am on my 5th EV and yep they all drive the same to me - might have a few more toys and gizsmo's but inherently you get in put your foot on brake, press a button, select D and drive off in silence! well a slight fake whine!! . doesnt matter if its a Tesla or a Leaf all the same IMHO
I'd question the quality of your senses if that is the case. How is the same argument not true for ICE and 4 cylnder with a manual gearbox, or evey 6 cylinder auto if that is the case?All you are describing is the act of driving an EV, not the sensation or experience. It's like suggesting every woman you've ever slept with is the same.
IMHO as someone whos been in the motor industry nearly 40 years EV cars by their pure nature of less mechanical parts are all the same - OK subtle differences granted. Nothing against EV Ive had 5 now and they get me from A>B but for pure driving sensation and pleasure I prefer a petrol or diesel car preferably with a manual gearbox. I would also suggest people dont believe all the hype that electric us the shinning light and the answer to our problems - it isnt.
Unfortunately the majorities tend not to question the way they are guided and follow the crowd - lets not mention the diesel solution from the 90's!!!
Edited by NS66 on Tuesday 20th December 17:04
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