Early 991.1 vs late 997.2 (Running costs)

[shuebc]

Thinking about getting into one of these - prices seem similar for both. Would like to hear from previous owners of running costs etc.

In terms of running costs - say over 5 years ownership - which will end up costing more as a daily (10k miles a year)? Assuming no warranty on either.
Obviously 997.2 costs 600 a year on tax, and significantly more on on fuel - but in terms of reliability / and general maintenance - what would cost more?

I was pretty convinced the 991 will be cheaper to run - but after watching a few ownership reviews - sounds like early 991.1 cars have a lot of reliability issues? Is this a rare occurrence - or actually quite accurate?

Ps. 991.2 is totally out of budget - and only earlyish 991.1 is realistic for me.

What's the more solid car?

[Discombobulate]

If not all ready done a 997.2 will need, or be about to need, coolant pipes, exhaust fittings and, depending on mileage a clutch. Front condensers for a/c another common issue. Suspension, except for control arms and track rod ends (and sometimes ARBs) tends to be hardy and should do 100K.
If you buy a 997.2 good to have £5k slush fund to make it perfect.

No idea about a 991.1

I prefer the 997s (we have a 997.1 currently being fully refurbed and oversized to Hartech 4.1). Smaller and better helm in our opinion. But each to their own. Go with the one you prefer and don't get too bogged down on the running costs.

[Gregmitchell]

Discombobulate said:

If not all ready done a 997.2 will need, or be about to need, coolant pipes, exhaust fittings and, depending on mileage a clutch. Front condensers for a/c another common issue. Suspension, except for control arms and track rod ends (and sometimes ARBs) tends to be hardy and should do 100K.
If you buy a 997.2 good to have £5k slush fund to make it perfect.

No idea about a 991.1

I prefer the 997s (we have a 997.1 currently being fully refurbed and oversized to Hartech 4.1). Smaller and better helm in our opinion. But each to their own. Go with the one you prefer and don't get too bogged down on the running costs.

I concur with this, i bought 12 months ago a 2009 997.2, had all the above done within the last 12 months before i purchased it, and a 12 year massive service (it's PDK), bill was just over £5k, i'd buy one over a 991.1 too, but nice to have a choice.

[shuebc]

Discombobulate said:

If not all ready done a 997.2 will need, or be about to need, coolant pipes, exhaust fittings and, depending on mileage a clutch. Front condensers for a/c another common issue. Suspension, except for control arms and track rod ends (and sometimes ARBs) tends to be hardy and should do 100K.
If you buy a 997.2 good to have £5k slush fund to make it perfect.

No idea about a 991.1

I prefer the 997s (we have a 997.1 currently being fully refurbed and oversized to Hartech 4.1). Smaller and better helm in our opinion. But each to their own. Go with the one you prefer and don't get too bogged down on the running costs.

Yeh the 997.2s I’m looking at are around 50-70k milers. Potential long long term car - independent of 991 or 997. But priority for me is the ability to afford to run it regardless of miles (I know it sounds silly that I’m prioritising cost especially at for 40-50k car, but i want the car that’s the more solid built rather than what I prefer - I’m going to like either regardless, and there’ll be times I’d prefer the daily ability of 991 and there’ll be times when I’ll want to more raw feel of 997).

Even when it comes to looks and size - they both are equally as appealing but for different reasons.

[shuebc]

Gregmitchell said:

I concur with this, i bought 12 months ago a 2009 997.2, had all the above done within the last 12 months before i purchased it, and a 12 year massive service (it's PDK), bill was just over £5k, i'd buy one over a 991.1 too, but nice to have a choice.

Yeh sold on the 997.2 but then a decent one costs very similar to a 991… and I can’t deny the extra daily ability of 991. But if the 991 - from what the reviews seem to imply have numerous expensive things that need fixing… then just wondering whether I’m not better off with the older and rarer 997.2.

What real world mpg do you get on a 997.2 when just pootling around - and not on a run? I’m only looking at manuals tho

[Gixxer6001]

Hi, I have a 997.2 c2s, its a manual, I’ve owned it for around 4 years, it’s around 30mpg in normal day to day, it came with a 1 year warranty when purchased and needed the air con condensers doing (under warranty) it’s also had a major 12 year service, I had the clutch changed along with swapping to a lightweight flywheel, and had a fast road geo done at the same time along with rear lower arms, total was about £4k I think, it’s due a minor service this spring but hopefully that should be it for a year or two fingers crossed, it’s currently on cup 2’s which may get changed to ps4s at some point, hope that helps

[Cheib]

Not an easy answer on running costs….what you don’t mention is the deprecation word. If you are happy to have a manual there is no doubt in my mind that a manual 997.2 will be the cheapest car to run from a deprecation perspective. Manual also cheaper from a maintenance perspective/risk of expensive parts.

[Pflanzgarten]

Surely it’s nigh on impossible to guess on different second hand cars, some of which are well over ten years old?

[AlR26]

Running costs I'd expect to be quite similar between them and it is the same base engine in both. They are both ~10y old cars so some things will need replaced and some parts might fail.

The bigger difference would be in how well that particular car had been maintained & general condition. I had a 986.2 that cost far more to run than either the 987.1 that replaced it, or my current 997.2 (C2S manual). All were at similar ages, just that much more needed replaced on the 986. I put £200 a month in a running account that covers servicing/tax/insurance/tyres etc most of the time.

Fuel economy is fine, but not great - I get mostly low-mid 20's in mixed driving in the 997.2 and can just sneak over 30 on a motorway run

[Discombobulate]

Look for a good history of recent works (the list above). And it can be surprisingly cheap motoring. Should hold value well too - even in these odd times.

[shuebc]

Cheib said:

Not an easy answer on running costs….what you don’t mention is the deprecation word. If you are happy to have a manual there is no doubt in my mind that a manual 997.2 will be the cheapest car to run from a deprecation perspective. Manual also cheaper from a maintenance perspective/risk of expensive parts.

Yeh I’m not too concerned about depreciation… potential forever car (or at least own for 5-10 years) - it’s more just the ability to drive it every day with total disregard for miles.

[shuebc]

Gixxer6001 said:

Hi, I have a 997.2 c2s, its a manual, I’ve owned it for around 4 years, it’s around 30mpg in normal day to day, it came with a 1 year warranty when purchased and needed the air con condensers doing (under warranty) it’s also had a major 12 year service, I had the clutch changed along with swapping to a lightweight flywheel, and had a fast road geo done at the same time along with rear lower arms, total was about £4k I think, it’s due a minor service this spring but hopefully that should be it for a year or two fingers crossed, it’s currently on cup 2’s which may get changed to ps4s at some point, hope that helps

Yeh 4K sounds expensive if it’s at same time. But if it’s 1k a year just on maintenance, then I guess that sounds relatively ok considering age of car etc.

[shuebc]

AlR26 said:

Running costs I'd expect to be quite similar between them and it is the same base engine in both. They are both ~10y old cars so some things will need replaced and some parts might fail.

The bigger difference would be in how well that particular car had been maintained & general condition. I had a 986.2 that cost far more to run than either the 987.1 that replaced it, or my current 997.2 (C2S manual). All were at similar ages, just that much more needed replaced on the 986. I put £200 a month in a running account that covers servicing/tax/insurance/tyres etc most of the time.

Fuel economy is fine, but not great - I get mostly low-mid 20's in mixed driving in the 997.2 and can just sneak over 30 on a motorway run

Yeh I’m only buying a car with a flawless history. I’d rather save up a bit longer for the right car, unless its a bargain that needs TLC.

Yeh sounds silly but I’m just completely against paying the gov £600 in tax, so it’s going to be tough to find an early lowish miler gen 2 that falls outside that tax bracket. Reason why I was initially leaning towards a 991 - and also the daily ability.

I guess I just need weigh it all up.

[anonymous-user]

Discombobulate said:

If not all ready done a 997.2 will need, or be about to need, coolant pipes, exhaust fittings and, depending on mileage a clutch. Front condensers for a/c another common issue. Suspension, except for control arms and track rod ends (and sometimes ARBs) tends to be hardy and should do 100K.
If you buy a 997.2 good to have £5k slush fund to make it perfect.

No idea about a 991.1

I prefer the 997s (we have a 997.1 currently being fully refurbed and oversized to Hartech 4.1). Smaller and better helm in our opinion. But each to their own. Go with the one you prefer and don't get too bogged down on the running costs.

Sorry for the off topic, I didn’t realise they could take the 3.8 C2S all the way up to 4.1, I think mine will be due for some Hartech tlc sooner rather than later and this sounds interesting. One thing I’m keen to keep is the incredible sound of the 997.1 C2S, did they say any thing about how the rebuild might affect this, if at all? While more torque is always good frankly the stock C2S is fast enough so it’s the experience that counts.

Thanks

[Discombobulate]

Archie2050 said:

Sorry for the off topic, I didn’t realise they could take the 3.8 C2S all the way up to 4.1, I think mine will be due for some Hartech tlc sooner rather than later and this sounds interesting. One thing I’m keen to keep is the incredible sound of the 997.1 C2S, did they say any thing about how the rebuild might affect this, if at all? While more torque is always good frankly the stock C2S is fast enough so it’s the experience that counts.

Thanks

Well it's getting TopGear stainless manifolds and 200 cell cats to go with the existing PSE so will be comparing apples with pears. But will report back.

Edited by Discombobulate on Monday 2nd January 12:31

[anonymous-user]

Discombobulate said:

Archie2050 said:

Sorry for the off topic, I didn’t realise they could take the 3.8 C2S all the way up to 4.1, I think mine will be due for some Hartech tlc sooner rather than later and this sounds interesting. One thing I’m keen to keep is the incredible sound of the 997.1 C2S, did they say any thing about how the rebuild might affect this, if at all? While more torque is always good frankly the stock C2S is fast enough so it’s the experience that counts.

Thanks

Well it's getting TopGear stainless manifolds and 200 cell cats to go with the existing PSE so will be comparing apples with pears. But will report back.

Edited by Discombobulate on Monday 2nd January 12:31

Thanks, it would be fascinating to hear how it works out, please do start a thread when you have some feedback! It could end up being better than a GTS.

(Sorry for the OT once again OP)

[Discombobulate]

Archie2050 said:

Thanks, it would be fascinating to hear how it works out, please do start a thread when you have some feedback! It could end up being better than a GTS.

(Sorry for the OT once again OP)

Thread on 911uk

[Snowy999]

I had an Airchamber and used it for several years. Good as it has a frame and a “side door” but as Chris says they are a pain to use if you’re in a rush! I broke a couple of the stays - they are fibreglass. So you need to be precise wuth parking. Did the job though nicely.

[Mankers]

Really difficult to predict how much either car will cost to run, particularly as they get older. There is always the chance of a big bill, something unexpected or a combination of brakes, tyres, service plus something else occurring at the same time, meaning a ‘big’ bill. I would estimate that an average of £2k pa would be more realistic, not including tax or fuel. Some years lower some higher. You might get lucky, or stumble across a car that has everything done (brakes, tyres, condensers, rads, suspension, major service)…..

Have you driven the 991 yet? Some don’t like the electric steering or manual box vs the 997 variant.

Happy hunting!

[walnut3]

2011 997.2, owned for 5 years and 30k miles (now at 54k), spent £1.8k a year on average. Some years nothing was needed, in 2020 I had a £6k bill including tyres and loads of suspension-related stuff.

This year will definitely increase the average to £2k+ due to the 12 year service and a new set of TPM sensors. Mine is PDK, 4WD *and* a Cabriolet so pretty much every regular maintenance item is due at the same time.