Charging for block of flats
Discussion
I noticed a block of flats the other day that has been recently finished. The car park had what looked like about 50 spaces, with over 25 charging points. Mostly double posts between bays with the odd single socket. This is a brand new build that also happens to be next to a small set of BP pulse chargers (4x 7kW, 2x 50kW).
I was pretty amazed that over half of the bays had charging points in them, especially considering the chargers already nearby.
Is this common now or is it a bit of a one off?
I was pretty amazed that over half of the bays had charging points in them, especially considering the chargers already nearby.
Is this common now or is it a bit of a one off?
blank said:
I noticed a block of flats the other day that has been recently finished. The car park had what looked like about 50 spaces, with over 25 charging points. Mostly double posts between bays with the odd single socket. This is a brand new build that also happens to be next to a small set of BP pulse chargers (4x 7kW, 2x 50kW).
I was pretty amazed that over half of the bays had charging points in them, especially considering the chargers already nearby.
Is this common now or is it a bit of a one off?
should be mandated, along with being slathered with solar PV.I was pretty amazed that over half of the bays had charging points in them, especially considering the chargers already nearby.
Is this common now or is it a bit of a one off?
Sounds very forward-thinking. I tried to get my neighbours onboard with installing similar (only 8 properties so 3-4 chargers) but they most said they'd be dead before they'd need an electric charging point so no, they won't look at spending money on installing them. Selfish buggers.
Edit: agree on solar panels being mandatory too - I asked for consideration for a small install just to run the communal lighting areas etc and was told 'no' to that as well.
Edit: agree on solar panels being mandatory too - I asked for consideration for a small install just to run the communal lighting areas etc and was told 'no' to that as well.
There is new legislation coming in to mandate this sort of thing for new developments.
25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
TheDeuce said:
There is new legislation coming in to mandate this sort of thing for new developments.
25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
If they are personal spaces, it's much easier to put a socket next to most of them rather than have some byzantine system of rotas as to who uses what charging space when.25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
If necessary, technology can limit the power drawn and share it around the spaces in all sorts of ways.
To make much use from VxG, it will help if the majority of cars are connected as much as possible, not just the one in five which need a charge that night.
Seems reasonable to provide a socket per space so residents can just plug into “their socket” and be done. Otherwise you’d be forever juggling cars around between spaces.
They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
OutInTheShed said:
TheDeuce said:
There is new legislation coming in to mandate this sort of thing for new developments.
25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
If they are personal spaces, it's much easier to put a socket next to most of them rather than have some byzantine system of rotas as to who uses what charging space when.25 chargers sounds almost excessive tbh though. We use ours once week to do 10k a year so... 25 7kw chargers such as our home charger would supply 175 cars. That's big block of flats! In reality I expect they're managed by a network that will make them available to not just residents?
Good progress though. 20 more years of this sort of thing and perhaps people will stop panicking about a future they're not yet living in.
If necessary, technology can limit the power drawn and share it around the spaces in all sorts of ways.
To make much use from VxG, it will help if the majority of cars are connected as much as possible, not just the one in five which need a charge that night.
It's just the OP said 'half' the spaces, that's where my comments come from.
theboss said:
Seems reasonable to provide a socket per space so residents can just plug into “their socket” and be done. Otherwise you’d be forever juggling cars around between spaces.
They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
A good question. I'd much prefer a system where the costs are something I could control via my own choice of supplier rather than having that decided for me. Any third party layer will introduce cost and bureaucracy which will likely cost more than it can save in this scenario.They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
Funk said:
theboss said:
Seems reasonable to provide a socket per space so residents can just plug into “their socket” and be done. Otherwise you’d be forever juggling cars around between spaces.
They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
A good question. I'd much prefer a system where the costs are something I could control via my own choice of supplier rather than having that decided for me. Any third party layer will introduce cost and bureaucracy which will likely cost more than it can save in this scenario.They don’t have to all operate at once and would imagine they are interconnected and managed together as a grid.
The interesting point would be whether they are literally made available to each resident as an extension of their flats electricity supply and billed by their energy company, or operated and charged separately by another company.
In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
So if you pay 25p per kw hour at home, on the public charger you might pay 50p when you plug in and then 25p + 4% as you charge - as an example.
Funk said:
A good question. I'd much prefer a system where the costs are something I could control via my own choice of supplier rather than having that decided for me. Any third party layer will introduce cost and bureaucracy which will likely cost more than it can save in this scenario.
In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
Why would you not put a small meter on each socket, or just install managed charge points that the user pays for?In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
dvs_dave said:
Funk said:
A good question. I'd much prefer a system where the costs are something I could control via my own choice of supplier rather than having that decided for me. Any third party layer will introduce cost and bureaucracy which will likely cost more than it can save in this scenario.
In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
Why would you not put a small meter on each socket, or just install managed charge points that the user pays for?In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
This will happen, or some equivalent. With today's connected world there is certainly no requirement to run a physical cable back to each individuals metre.
Looked into it a bit more...
30 flats, all 2 bed, mix of shared ownership and social housing.
Each flat has an allocated space and charger. I assume the remaining spaces are either allocated to the more expensive flats or un allocated.
The points are all PodPoint branded and look similar to public ones in Tesco etc. But don't appear on the app.
30 flats, all 2 bed, mix of shared ownership and social housing.
Each flat has an allocated space and charger. I assume the remaining spaces are either allocated to the more expensive flats or un allocated.
The points are all PodPoint branded and look similar to public ones in Tesco etc. But don't appear on the app.
blank said:
Looked into it a bit more...
30 flats, all 2 bed, mix of shared ownership and social housing.
Each flat has an allocated space and charger. I assume the remaining spaces are either allocated to the more expensive flats or un allocated.
The points are all PodPoint branded and look similar to public ones in Tesco etc. But don't appear on the app.
That's really useful to know - good to see the start of baked in charging solutions for high density housing.30 flats, all 2 bed, mix of shared ownership and social housing.
Each flat has an allocated space and charger. I assume the remaining spaces are either allocated to the more expensive flats or un allocated.
The points are all PodPoint branded and look similar to public ones in Tesco etc. But don't appear on the app.
I would assume that right now the users will pay a typical podpoint commercial rate, but also confident that in time the rate will be more closely tied to their home tariff. Time will tell on that point.
The big issue with this is not for new builds like this, but for older ones.
You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
LukeBrown66 said:
The big issue with this is not for new builds like this, but for older ones.
You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
If people want charging points, businesses will provide them.You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
At a cost of course.
LukeBrown66 said:
The big issue with this is not for new builds like this, but for older ones.
You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
hardly insurmountable though, especially with RFID/ mobile app solutions available off the shelf.You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
LukeBrown66 said:
The big issue with this is not for new builds like this, but for older ones.
You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
Wait... Are those of us with a few quid and a home not real You have three maybe four even five parties involved. The tenant, the landlord (owner if private), if rental the maintenance and management company and then perhaps even the council. It might be that your space is away from the grid, that means huge cost either to you or the management company, for what gain?
Who decides on the fitment of the meter, the parking space is not rented or owned, only the house is, you will never own the parking space, you are allowed to use it, but it is not yours, can you therefore just stick a chargepoint in there? Not without asking the management company, who by rights ought to at least thing about paying for it.
it is not that simple, for real people not just those with a few quid and a place of their own
And b
ks to older blocks of flats. Who on earth ever expected and ageing block of flats to maintain their value compared to newer ones? Plainly if legislation comes in that says new homes must have chargers the older homes without them lose some value in relative terms... That's right and proper, it's progress. It's why old tower blocks that fail modern living standards on endless basis get raised to the ground.As per the last thread I replied to you on.. Make you're own logical and reasoned arguments, stop making it all about money - it just makes people think your views are personally financially motivated as opposed to being open minded and logical, about a change that affects everyone, at every level of wealth. It's not all about you.
TheDeuce said:
dvs_dave said:
Funk said:
A good question. I'd much prefer a system where the costs are something I could control via my own choice of supplier rather than having that decided for me. Any third party layer will introduce cost and bureaucracy which will likely cost more than it can save in this scenario.
In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
Why would you not put a small meter on each socket, or just install managed charge points that the user pays for?In my building we'd have had to outsource it; the cost and disruption of trying to run back to each flat's meter would've been insurmountable and would also have meant 8 individual chargers rather than 3-4 shared by 8 flats.
This will happen, or some equivalent. With today's connected world there is certainly no requirement to run a physical cable back to each individuals metre.
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