Diesel... is it Dead?
Discussion
As it is now considered the veritable milk of the devil, I was wondering whether it's worth buying one now. How long do you think we diesel drivers might have before we get priced out of them.
Perhaps through more stringent/widespread ULEZ, maybe more fuel tax or some other 'government encouragements' as the EV only deadline approaches.
I do a reasonable number of miles c. 13000 p.a. so they still make the best financial sense for me, not being able to afford an E.V. that suits just yet.
The gap to petrol has closed a fair bit though...closer in terms of mpg and a wider gap in cost per litre etc. But then who knows what'll happen to petrol drivers too in the next few years.
Anyone got a fully functional crystal ball I can borrow?
Perhaps through more stringent/widespread ULEZ, maybe more fuel tax or some other 'government encouragements' as the EV only deadline approaches.
I do a reasonable number of miles c. 13000 p.a. so they still make the best financial sense for me, not being able to afford an E.V. that suits just yet.
The gap to petrol has closed a fair bit though...closer in terms of mpg and a wider gap in cost per litre etc. But then who knows what'll happen to petrol drivers too in the next few years.
Anyone got a fully functional crystal ball I can borrow?
PositronicRay said:
I think for bigger cars there's still a case, not sure I'd bother with a small supermini type diesel though.
Was there ever a case for diesel superminis?Draxindustries1 said:
Many years left for diesels, it'll be available for decades to come.
The transport industry especially heavy trucks will for a very long time yet be diesel.
Yeah, try buying even a light van that ain't diesel. (Awaits inevitable riposte from clueless metropolitan type with The transport industry especially heavy trucks will for a very long time yet be diesel.
Teddy Lop said:
PositronicRay said:
I think for bigger cars there's still a case, not sure I'd bother with a small supermini type diesel though.
Was there ever a case for diesel superminis?Draxindustries1 said:
Many years left for diesels, it'll be available for decades to come.
The transport industry especially heavy trucks will for a very long time yet be diesel.
Yeah, try buying even a light van that ain't diesel. (Awaits inevitable riposte from clueless metropolitan type with The transport industry especially heavy trucks will for a very long time yet be diesel.
Muddle238 said:
We bought a diesel V70 last year. Although a petrol is “nicer”, the diesel ticked the boxes for what we want and need.
Buy what you want, not what the government wants. They’ll only move the goalposts again next week.
^^^^ spot on.Buy what you want, not what the government wants. They’ll only move the goalposts again next week.
We run a Diesel Prado and an LPG converted Forester as our main transport, have no intention of getting rid of either one until i retire and then it will be the tax and fuel cost burden of whichever is the best bet that makes the choice for us, until the one that remains falls apart it won't get replaced and if it does it won't be by a vehicle powered solely by a battery.
Take no notice of here today gone tomorrow politicians and their vested interest multi billionaire chums, you'll end up as mad as them, there could be several more regime changes in our bankrupt country in the next few years, if we followed every dictat each new placeperson demanded we'd be swapping our cars and home heating systems etc every other week.
Fortunately we abhor cities and large towns so the more they penalise the likes of us going there the better, win win.
I bought my current diesel Alfa, as the petrol equivalent was so scarce, so went for the 2.0D, I've been impressed by it,quick enough with great economy, I intend to hold onto it, Luckily I don't have to visit any ULEZ zones though, as the car is a Euro 5...
I don't think I'll be going to EV for a while, purely cost at the moment.
I don't think I'll be going to EV for a while, purely cost at the moment.
My partner has always owned a diesel car and current drives a 2014 Nissan Note with the 1,5 DCi engine which she has owned from new. When she comes to replace the Note in 2-3 years time it's likely she will opt for a Petrol and PHEV. Not because she wants to but there are likely to be very few new or nearly new small hatchbacks / small MPV's / SUV's available with a diesel engine. The move away from diesel and towards petrol / PHEV / BEV has been much faster than I anticipated.
They will be around for a while to come.
People like bigger cars now than in the past. Big cars are where a good diesel can shine.
Imagine I drive a Fiesta and do 48mpg in the 1.0 turbo. Now my needs change and I convince myself (somewhat incorrectly) that I actually need a Skoda Karoq or similar mid/large SUV.
The petrols claim around 45mpg and the diesels claim close to 60mpg. People tend to overestimate their mileage, and we all like to drive the most efficient tool for the job. If you test drive a modern diesel with better NVH than in the past it just feels like a sprightly thing you don't need to rev much to access the power. Ergo people still end up in Diesels.
I think they're starting to make less sense really, but they will have a place for a long time. This will be because although petrol power has made big inroads (there was a time you wouldn't have seen a petrol option in something like the Karoq other than for a range topping v6 3.0 type thing) they just don't seem to be getting developed much anymore do they?
I mean when is the last time you saw a ground up new petrol engine? Everyone brought their small capacity 3-pots to market and now they just seem to tweak them. Ford were the first and that must be getting on towards 10 years old now. All they did is play with the turbo size and bolt on a (completely worthless in their case) mild hybrid system to keep the CO2 figures looking acceptable.
People like bigger cars now than in the past. Big cars are where a good diesel can shine.
Imagine I drive a Fiesta and do 48mpg in the 1.0 turbo. Now my needs change and I convince myself (somewhat incorrectly) that I actually need a Skoda Karoq or similar mid/large SUV.
The petrols claim around 45mpg and the diesels claim close to 60mpg. People tend to overestimate their mileage, and we all like to drive the most efficient tool for the job. If you test drive a modern diesel with better NVH than in the past it just feels like a sprightly thing you don't need to rev much to access the power. Ergo people still end up in Diesels.
I think they're starting to make less sense really, but they will have a place for a long time. This will be because although petrol power has made big inroads (there was a time you wouldn't have seen a petrol option in something like the Karoq other than for a range topping v6 3.0 type thing) they just don't seem to be getting developed much anymore do they?
I mean when is the last time you saw a ground up new petrol engine? Everyone brought their small capacity 3-pots to market and now they just seem to tweak them. Ford were the first and that must be getting on towards 10 years old now. All they did is play with the turbo size and bolt on a (completely worthless in their case) mild hybrid system to keep the CO2 figures looking acceptable.
Some interesting thoughts on here.
I tend to agree that diesel (cars) have a while to go yet.
It's easy to logic myself into a 1 litre, 3 pot, turbocharged petrol that can do mid 40mpg but it still isn't quite as economical as my mid 50mpg 2litre TD Leon, especaily in the hills around here.
I've been driving diesels for 35 years or so, partly as company car safety policy dictated and latterly on personal lease, so it might be a while longer yet before I change my choice of car juice.
I tend to agree that diesel (cars) have a while to go yet.
It's easy to logic myself into a 1 litre, 3 pot, turbocharged petrol that can do mid 40mpg but it still isn't quite as economical as my mid 50mpg 2litre TD Leon, especaily in the hills around here.
I've been driving diesels for 35 years or so, partly as company car safety policy dictated and latterly on personal lease, so it might be a while longer yet before I change my choice of car juice.
Edible Roadkill said:
High price at the pumps combined with terrible mpg in our current suv made me think twice when ordering my next car.
There’s now 20p/ltr difference between fuels & when your diesel suv returns 25mpg in real driving terms that’s not sustainable.
25mpg in a diesel suv seems really bad? Is that the norm? I get 19-20mpg in my 135i and thought that was awful. There’s now 20p/ltr difference between fuels & when your diesel suv returns 25mpg in real driving terms that’s not sustainable.
457892345 said:
25mpg in a diesel suv seems really bad? Is that the norm? I get 19-20mpg in my 135i and thought that was awful.
It seems terrible for something modern and Diesel, even my ageing shaped like a brick Prado with slush box and 3 litre Diesel gets 25mpg general knocking about.About the same MPG as the 2.5 turbo Forester on either petrol or lpg.
For me the final straw that broke the Diesel back was the DPF, i could get a more modern Landcruiser with the 2.8 engine that has the switching to allow driver controlled static regens, not sure if Hilux is fitted with the same device, our general running would not suit a DPF Diesel without being able to trigger regens, hence making the old one last as long as possible.
Edited by Smint on Monday 2nd January 14:47
Not had a diesel for a while, so not paid attention to diesel prices, but in reality I just don't believe the claimed fuel consumption figures of current petrol cars. As another poster said, a few years back you just wouldn't get a mid-size car as a petrol as you get poor performance and poor economy. Has that really changed?
Remember when a friend had a MK7 Golf GTD and I got 65mpg without really trying. I had a Mk7 Golf R and I had to try really, really hard to get close to 40mpg despite it being a later 7-speed example. Surely a few years still on the diesel variant is noticeably cheaper to run?
Remember when a friend had a MK7 Golf GTD and I got 65mpg without really trying. I had a Mk7 Golf R and I had to try really, really hard to get close to 40mpg despite it being a later 7-speed example. Surely a few years still on the diesel variant is noticeably cheaper to run?
I’m eyeing up an Audi A5 as a cheap daily at the moment and the majority seem to be the 2 litre diesel variant. I’ve only ever owned one diesel historically and that was a nail but I’m half tempted, not least because it’ll be used for a Yorkshire>Hampshire dull motorway and dual carriageway trudge so the performance is a non-issue but to see 50mpg would make it welcome over 600 mile round trip.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff