Powermatic 80 movements

[pistonheadforum]

Looking at watches from the Swatch group - many use ETA movements. This is a decent movement manufacturer and appears in a number of different brands of varying calibres. I understand that some COSC models use this in the top end variation.

However, some of them appear to be modified (either ETA 2824 or ETA 2834) to allow for 80 hours power reserve. These are refered to as the Powermatic 80 range?

This appears to be done main (simplying somewhat) by reducing the VPH from 28,800 bph (4Hz) to 21,600 bph (3 Hz).

What are peoples opinion on this? Assuming you don't want/need the additional power reserve would this be considered a downgrade and better to get the 4 Hz original?

I know that this is potentially a very subjective topic with no real correct answer, so would be interested in hearing opinions.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by pistonheadforum on Monday 2nd January 21:00

[pistonheadforum]

I should say I'm looking at the Certina/Tissot range with some of them being 80 hour models and some being the original 2834 movements.

Thanks in advance.

[Barchettaman]

This is a decent article:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/watchs-frequency...

[Doofus]

I have a Certina Powermatic 80. The decreased beat isn't an issue to me because I don't stare at it for minutes at a time. Neither is the power reserve because I either leave a watch overnight (so it'll still be runninf anyway) or for weeks on end (so it won't).

It's very accurate and the DS technology means it's 100m water resistant even without a screw down crown.

As to the question of opinion: I couldn't give a st whether it's considered 'prestige' or not.

[pistonheadforum]

Barchettaman said:

This is a decent article:

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/watchs-frequency...

Thanks for this - I apprecaite the link to the article.

I am more interested in what people who frequent this forum think. Not trying to say which is better just interested in people opinions and why they have them.

I am leaning toward the 4 Hz being "better" purely because I perceive this to be more frequent beat that helps with keeping the timing more accurate. I am not saying this is correct or that I am right.

[pistonheadforum]

Doofus said:

I have a Certina Powermatic 80. The decreased beat isn't an issue to me because I don't stare at it for minutes at a time. Neither is the power reserve because I either leave a watch overnight (so it'll still be runninf anyway) or for weeks on end (so it won't).

It's very accurate and the DS technology means it's 100m water resistant even without a screw down crown.

As to the question of opinion: I couldn't give a st whether it's considered 'prestige' or not.

Thanks! I shall put you in the cares not a jot catagory!

Thanks for replying.

[gregs656]

pistonheadforum said:

Thanks for this - I apprecaite the link to the article.

I am more interested in what people who frequent this forum think. Not trying to say which is better just interested in people opinions and why they have them.

I am leaning toward the 4 Hz being "better" purely because I perceive this to be more frequent beat that helps with keeping the timing more accurate. I am not saying this is correct or that I am right.

I’ve got a PM 80 mido ocean star GMT and it keeps really good time. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is comfortably within COSC spec.

[Ninjin]

I have a powermatic 80 Mido which keeps great time. However, for me, I have gotten used to the 4hz beat of 28,800 movements and don't really like the way the second hand moves. With the large dial on the Mido, it amplifies the noticeable sweep distance.

In my collection, of 21,600, I have the powermatic 80, Seiko NH35/36 and the Seiko 6R35. Although all being equal at 21,600, the Seiko 6R35 in my Seiko Shogun, sweeps noticeably smoother than the budget Seiko NH or even the Powermatic 80. I'm not knowledgeble to know why that is but that is what my eyes see! I can even see the reducded frequency in the 2018 Omega SMP300. I was rather annoyed to see it with a sweep that wasn't the usual smoothness of my Broad Arrow. Only after, did I discover Omega reduced it to 25,200.....

So, in conclusion, other than asthetics of the sweep smoothness (due to increased frequency) I don't think timekeeping accuracy comes into it. Off the top of my head, I think AP used 21,600 in the Royal Oak until 2019, if it was good enough for a £16k retail watch (at the time in 2019), then surely its good enough for a £1k retail watch of today.

[pistonheadforum]

Can a Powermatic/Swissmatic movement be regulated or is a sealed unadjustable movement?

Thanks in advance.

[gregs656]

pistonheadforum said:

Can a Powermatic/Swissmatic movement be regulated or is a sealed unadjustable movement?

Thanks in advance.

They can be regulated. They are high quality movements.

my Mido

Edited by gregs656 on Tuesday 3rd January 17:26

[Doofus]

Mine hasn't been regulated, but it's as accurate as my COSC watches.

[VR99]

I have a Certina Caimano, believe it uses a standard ETA 2824, am happy enough with the accuracy and durability thus far. The lack of juice Vs a Powermatic 80 isn't really an issue for me as I rotate quite a few different watches. Saying that, I want to add another Certina to my collection as think they represent excellent VFM so maybe il go for a Powermatic 80 variant!

[pistonheadforum]

gregs656 said:

my Mido

That's rather nice.

[gregs656]

pistonheadforum said:

That's rather nice.

It’s great. GMT with a dive bezel (great combo) and a flyer GMT so local jumping hours. I have it on right now actually.

[glazbagun]

pistonheadforum said:

Can a Powermatic/Swissmatic movement be regulated or is a sealed unadjustable movement?

Thanks in advance.

Not by a layman- they're freesprung so rate change is via moving the weights on the balance to alter the inertia so will need a key, unlike regulated hairsprings which can be adjusted with a pointy stick. AIt's also easier to damage something when you're touching the balance.

[Barchettaman]

pistonheadforum said:

Can a Powermatic/Swissmatic movement be regulated or is a sealed unadjustable movement?

Thanks in advance.

I think I’ve read elsewhere that they’re considered disposable by the company, but they’re not sealed in resin or anything daft like that.

If one develops a fault in warranty, it’ll go back to Swatch and a new movement will be dropped in.

Likewise, further down the track, if you send it to Swatch for servicing, a tech will just swap in a new Powermatic movement.

Quite why you’d need/want to regulate it is unclear as they’re reckoned to be fantastically accurate straight out of the box.

Oh, and that Mido is really lovely.

[pistonheadforum]

glazbagun said:

Not by a layman- they're freesprung so rate change is via moving the weights on the balance to alter the inertia so will need a key, unlike regulated hairsprings which can be adjusted with a pointy stick. AIt's also easier to damage something when you're touching the balance.

Thanks yes that's what I was reading which makes it something that probably best avoided as I like to learn more about watchrepair and would want to regulate myself.

Thanks for this info.

[gregs656]

pistonheadforum said:

Thanks yes that's what I was reading which makes it something that probably best avoided as I like to learn more about watchrepair and would want to regulate myself.

Thanks for this info.

The tried and tested route to learn at home is to use a pocket watch movement.

[Composer62]

Doofus said:

Mine hasn't been regulated, but it's as accurate as my COSC watches.

I have a Tissot PRX with the Powermatic 80 movement.

I'd agree with that statement. It's one of the most accurate watches I own.

[Dynam0humm]

glazbagun said:

pistonheadforum said:

Can a Powermatic/Swissmatic movement be regulated or is a sealed unadjustable movement?

Thanks in advance.

Not by a layman- they're freesprung so rate change is via moving the weights on the balance to alter the inertia so will need a key, unlike regulated hairsprings which can be adjusted with a pointy stick. AIt's also easier to damage something when you're touching the balance.

Not exactly true...

There are no weights for timing adjustment on the balance wheel on the PRX80 like Rolex or Omega have - adjustment on these seems to be done with laser etching the balance wheel which removes weight and inertia until the correct results are achieved and then that'll do until service time when you send it back to the factory and they chuck a fresh movement in.

I'm an independent watchmaker and will work on most things, but I refuse to go near these as they simply can't be adjusted after servicing.