3 into 2.5 do not go
Discussion
See, for instance, this afternarket conversion seat job:
Large SUVs and large saloons that are supposedly "5 seater" are really only 4+1.
That is, 2 super-luxurious armchairs, separated by an after-thought seat in the middle.
"You should get a 7 seater then", says just about everyone.
But I neither need or want a 6 or 7 seater, not least because I do not wish to have my kids right up beside the rear in case of a rear-ender. And why should I need to buy 6 or 7 separate seats just to get 5?
Generally, in 4+1 layouts, the 2 armchairs are usually wider than needed, esp as far as kids are concerned. It'd be quite simple to have a 2 + 3 option, like the above.
Is there just no demand for a genuine 5-seater?
Large SUVs and large saloons that are supposedly "5 seater" are really only 4+1.
That is, 2 super-luxurious armchairs, separated by an after-thought seat in the middle.
"You should get a 7 seater then", says just about everyone.
But I neither need or want a 6 or 7 seater, not least because I do not wish to have my kids right up beside the rear in case of a rear-ender. And why should I need to buy 6 or 7 separate seats just to get 5?
Generally, in 4+1 layouts, the 2 armchairs are usually wider than needed, esp as far as kids are concerned. It'd be quite simple to have a 2 + 3 option, like the above.
Is there just no demand for a genuine 5-seater?
The spinner of plates said:
MPVs do this well. I remember the Renault scenic had three identical rear seats.
But whilst practical and perfectly designed for family life, they aren’t fashionable any more.
The Xsara Picasso does this well also. I seem to recall it has 3 isofix points too, which may be of use if you have three children.But whilst practical and perfectly designed for family life, they aren’t fashionable any more.
TBH I think it's a problem that has only extended to the general spectrum of cars since isofix became a thing. Obviously 2+2s and luxury cars have never really been designed for 3 people in the rear, but for family cars the manufacturers seem to focus on two seats that can accommodate the captain's chairs we call "child seats" and then just fill in the leftover space with a bit of seat.
ETA apparently the VW Touran also has three isofix in the second row. Even if your kids are too old for child seats at least you know there should be three proper seats there.
Edited by donkmeister on Thursday 5th January 00:40
Edited by donkmeister on Thursday 5th January 00:40
You need a pretty wide vehicle to both accommodate three child seats across the back and have the thickness of door required to meet modern side-impact safety expectations. It always struct me as odd that many people are horrified by the idea of buying a car which only got one star (or whatever) on Euro NCAP because of its "marginal" side impact performance yet will put someone's head 6 inches from the rear window in the third row of seats. If NCAP started testing rear-end impacts with dummies in the third row, I think the sale of most current seven seaters would practically stop overnight.
I guess the other point is that people have, by and large, got considerably fatter so in terms of meeting the most common use-cases it probably makes more sense for manufacturers to install two seats which will be comfortable for obese people and a centre one which can be used at a pinch, than three seats which are comfortable for people carrying a healthy amount of body fat. I sit slap bang in the middle of what the NHS defines as the "healthy weight range" (and yes I know that's a whole can of worms in itself) and I find most modern seats, both front and rear, far wider than necessary.
I guess the other point is that people have, by and large, got considerably fatter so in terms of meeting the most common use-cases it probably makes more sense for manufacturers to install two seats which will be comfortable for obese people and a centre one which can be used at a pinch, than three seats which are comfortable for people carrying a healthy amount of body fat. I sit slap bang in the middle of what the NHS defines as the "healthy weight range" (and yes I know that's a whole can of worms in itself) and I find most modern seats, both front and rear, far wider than necessary.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 5th January 07:50
The car that you seek…
…is not available in the UK…
Legroom and headroom for three adults in the back, plus three Isofix points. And a boot bigger than that of both an E Class estate or Superb estate either with the seats up or folded down.
Also comes with a 6.2-litre LS3 for noise and fun.
I’ve got three kids, two of which are teens, and we do big road trips. We all like our car.
…is not available in the UK…
Legroom and headroom for three adults in the back, plus three Isofix points. And a boot bigger than that of both an E Class estate or Superb estate either with the seats up or folded down.
Also comes with a 6.2-litre LS3 for noise and fun.
I’ve got three kids, two of which are teens, and we do big road trips. We all like our car.
PomBstard said:
The car that you seek…
…is not available in the UK…
Legroom and headroom for three adults in the back, plus three Isofix points. And a boot bigger than that of both an E Class estate or Superb estate either with the seats up or folded down.
Also comes with a 6.2-litre LS3 for noise and fun.
I’ve got three kids, two of which are teens, and we do big road trips. We all like our car.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong model but web pics still look very much like conventional 2.5 seat arrangement across the width. Though even if that's the case, 6.2l would be some consolation …is not available in the UK…
Legroom and headroom for three adults in the back, plus three Isofix points. And a boot bigger than that of both an E Class estate or Superb estate either with the seats up or folded down.
Also comes with a 6.2-litre LS3 for noise and fun.
I’ve got three kids, two of which are teens, and we do big road trips. We all like our car.
Gad-Westy said:
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong model but web pics still look very much like conventional 2.5 seat arrangement across the width. Though even if that's the case, 6.2l would be some consolation
The rear seat is styled like that but the will easily fit 3 adults across the back because they are so wide.
It does seem that 5 seats is really 4 and a bit of an extra. We have a Merc ML for family use but the middle seat wouldn't be comfortable for someone to sit in between two adults that's for sure. With a car seat either side, only my eldest daughter can comfortably fit. That's a pretty big car too and spacious in every way except the middle seat.
By contrast we hired a 7 seat VW Sharan for a holiday, three adults and two children with the thinking that with the child seats in, someone would have to sit in the third row. Turned out that the second row had three full size seats so two car seats in, and an adult all in the second row.
By contrast we hired a 7 seat VW Sharan for a holiday, three adults and two children with the thinking that with the child seats in, someone would have to sit in the third row. Turned out that the second row had three full size seats so two car seats in, and an adult all in the second row.
Jader1973 said:
Gad-Westy said:
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong model but web pics still look very much like conventional 2.5 seat arrangement across the width. Though even if that's the case, 6.2l would be some consolation
The rear seat is styled like that but the will easily fit 3 adults across the back because they are so wide.There's a lot of MPV's around that have room for three in the back.
3 in the rear even in old saloon cars was never a real issue.
SUV's without exception are the reverse Tardis. If proper room is what you want then a small minibus like a Caravelle or similar are the only real options.
The problem with the 3 seats as shown are the arm rests. These are taking up (at a guess) around 30cm in total.
3 in the rear even in old saloon cars was never a real issue.
SUV's without exception are the reverse Tardis. If proper room is what you want then a small minibus like a Caravelle or similar are the only real options.
The problem with the 3 seats as shown are the arm rests. These are taking up (at a guess) around 30cm in total.
Edited by Draxindustries1 on Thursday 5th January 08:38
We had the same issue a few years ago with 3 kids in various car seats, initially got an original XC90 with the built-in booster seat in the middle (small) seat and then went to Discovery 3 and then 4, the Disco 4 being the best if somewhat expensive to run.
Although as per your original point both the XC90 and Discovery 3/4 are 7 seaters and not a 5 seater...
Although as per your original point both the XC90 and Discovery 3/4 are 7 seaters and not a 5 seater...
Another advocate of the Disco 3/4 here. They are perfect, the seat arrangement is great. I actually think if you can ignore the slightly high running costs and dubious reliability stories (they are not as bad as you'd believe on the internet) the Discovery 4 could well be one of the best all purpose and versatile cars ever made. They are ridiculously good at everything and the SDV6 models drive very well indeed too.
Gad-Westy said:
Cool. Although I think a few European cars are like that to. E-class looks tight in the middle but 5-series and A6 look okay. But all these cars seem to suffer from the same issue that the middle seat is compromised by a raised centre guaranteed to numb a bum within an hour or two, rear cushion made up mainly of foldable arm rest etc so again less comfortable. Would be nice if there were some options that had three identical seats without resorting to SUV or MPV but not sure any exist.
From my own research I thought the rear seats of the 5 series and A6 to be quite cramped in comparison to the E class and the Holden. The 5 had almost no leg room when the drivers seat was set for me (I’m 6’2”) and neither was that wide. Certainly neither was any roomier than the 2012 Liberty wagon I was looking to replace.The other one that I think was quite big in the back - headroom and legroom for three across - was the Jeep Grand Cherokee - and that one comes with a 6.4-litre Hemi…
We tried with a normal estate when the 3rd came along but gave up and initially bought an Alhambra.
3 proper seats in 2nd and 2 in 3rd row.
No isofix as it was an 03 reg (had it 15 years ago) but non of our cars had isofix when the kids were in baby seats.
Then had 2 original XC90s when they got older. Oldest always sat in the 3rd row to avoid getting annoyed by the others
However they were wide enough for 3 across the 2nd row with ease.
3 proper seats in 2nd and 2 in 3rd row.
No isofix as it was an 03 reg (had it 15 years ago) but non of our cars had isofix when the kids were in baby seats.
Then had 2 original XC90s when they got older. Oldest always sat in the 3rd row to avoid getting annoyed by the others
However they were wide enough for 3 across the 2nd row with ease.
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