Heatpump - is it worth specifying?
Discussion
As it says in the title - is it worth specifying a heatpump as an option on a new EV?
My (possibly mistaken) understanding is that a HP will pre-prepare you battery for charging and make said charging more efficient/cheaper. A HP also enables faster cabin heating if your car isn't plugged in overnights...
If you're only doing 2 or 3 long journeys a month and no longer commuting it would seem rather pricey... any thoughts?
My (possibly mistaken) understanding is that a HP will pre-prepare you battery for charging and make said charging more efficient/cheaper. A HP also enables faster cabin heating if your car isn't plugged in overnights...
If you're only doing 2 or 3 long journeys a month and no longer commuting it would seem rather pricey... any thoughts?
DodgyGeezer said:
As it says in the title - is it worth specifying a heatpump as an option on a new EV?
My (possibly mistaken) understanding is that a HP will pre-prepare you battery for charging and make said charging more efficient/cheaper. A HP also enables faster cabin heating if your car isn't plugged in overnights...
If you're only doing 2 or 3 long journeys a month and no longer commuting it would seem rather pricey... any thoughts?
Depends on the cost and how useful it really will be for you. If the range of the EV comfortably covers most of your journeys I would argue the extra efficiency afforded by the heat pump isn't worth very much to you... My (possibly mistaken) understanding is that a HP will pre-prepare you battery for charging and make said charging more efficient/cheaper. A HP also enables faster cabin heating if your car isn't plugged in overnights...
If you're only doing 2 or 3 long journeys a month and no longer commuting it would seem rather pricey... any thoughts?
How much is the option?
Car owned or leased?
What's the range of the EV without it?
What mileage and typical journey lengths do you make?
DodgyGeezer said:
Car is Ioniq5, pump is £1k, I'd say that 80%+ would be single charge. Obviously £1k pretty much pays for a home charger...
So long as 80%+ is very comfortably a single charge, even in very cold winters - which seem to be in fashion these days..Although the other ~20% could be an annoyance depending on whether that 20% requires just a little more range which the heat pump could make possible.. or a lot more range in which case it makes little difference as you have to stop anyway. I wouldn't pay £1k extra to shave at few minutes of the average charging break.
However I also asked if the car was bought or leased, because if it is bought, just as you are asking now, future buyers will be interested in the value of the heat pump to them. Ticking that option box now would probably add £500 to the future resale value of the car and make it an easier sell than one without it.
TheDeuce said:
However I also asked if the car was bought or leased, because if it is bought, just as you are asking now, future buyers will be interested in the value of the heat pump to them. Ticking that option box now would probably add £500 to the future resale value of the car and make it an easier sell than one without it.
Car would be bought/PCP'd, not as worried about 'losing' resale value in 3+ years since I'd imagine that as a percentage of the total depreciation it's negligible DodgyGeezer said:
TheDeuce said:
However I also asked if the car was bought or leased, because if it is bought, just as you are asking now, future buyers will be interested in the value of the heat pump to them. Ticking that option box now would probably add £500 to the future resale value of the car and make it an easier sell than one without it.
Car would be bought/PCP'd, not as worried about 'losing' resale value in 3+ years since I'd imagine that as a percentage of the total depreciation it's negligible Based on what you have said, I would be leaning towards ticking the option.
I'm sure you'll have a second, third and probably 36th opinion offered on this thread very soon
My new Kia Niro EV has a heat pump - £900 option!!
Cant see any benefit at all if anything the range is far worse than my previous Niro - I even checked under the bonnet to see that I had one fitted.
I wouldnt bother if I was you but I know alot of manufacturers are offering a much quicker delivery on a heat pump car - profiteering perhaps? couldnt possibly say!!!
Cant see any benefit at all if anything the range is far worse than my previous Niro - I even checked under the bonnet to see that I had one fitted.
I wouldnt bother if I was you but I know alot of manufacturers are offering a much quicker delivery on a heat pump car - profiteering perhaps? couldnt possibly say!!!
What's typical use for you? Is it going to be used regularly in early morning routines? This is probably where the additional efficiency of keeping the cabin warm will pay dividends. It's one thing being able to pre-heat using your domestic supply whilst still plugged in on the driveway, but if the temperature is <5°C outside then it takes a fair amount of energy to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. Granted, temperatures that low are very infrequent, but I think I'd rather have it than not?
The charging thing is a secondary advantage, which will apply really only if you're doing long journeys as it will reduce the amount of time you're stationary. If you don't plan to use it on longer journeys then this again becomes a bit of moot point.
I have one on my Model 3 and during the really cold snap my range was - predictably - reduced massively. But the cabin was nice and warm - without a heat pump the heater would have consumed 3 times more power to maintain temperature, which is nuts. This is based on a review of Model 3 with / without heat pump which was done by a YouTuber at an outdoor temperature of 3°C. I'm not sure if equivalent tests have been done on an Ioniq5 / EV6, but I'm sure it's still relevant.
The charging thing is a secondary advantage, which will apply really only if you're doing long journeys as it will reduce the amount of time you're stationary. If you don't plan to use it on longer journeys then this again becomes a bit of moot point.
I have one on my Model 3 and during the really cold snap my range was - predictably - reduced massively. But the cabin was nice and warm - without a heat pump the heater would have consumed 3 times more power to maintain temperature, which is nuts. This is based on a review of Model 3 with / without heat pump which was done by a YouTuber at an outdoor temperature of 3°C. I'm not sure if equivalent tests have been done on an Ioniq5 / EV6, but I'm sure it's still relevant.
C.A.R. said:
I have one on my Model 3 and during the really cold snap my range was - predictably - reduced massively. But the cabin was nice and warm - without a heat pump the heater would have consumed 3 times more power to maintain temperature, which is nuts. This is based on a review of Model 3 with / without heat pump which was done by a YouTuber at an outdoor temperature of 3°C. I'm not sure if equivalent tests have been done on an Ioniq5 / EV6, but I'm sure it's still relevant.
I suspect you can save a great deal with a heatpump. I've got a ZS and have seen it pull up to 20A @ 400v with the heater on full when it was - 8°c. That's quite some juice.It's not really a comparison but when it was 40°c the max I saw the air conditioning pull was 10A. I guess that's a compressor just like a heatpump is.
I don't think I'd buy an EV without a heatpump now.
The heat pump doesn’t replace the standard resistive heating. It augments it by providing an alternative, more efficient, heat source. The resistive heating remains as a backup for when ambient temps are outside of the heat pump ideal efficiency range. So when it’s really really cold, the car will fall back to resistive heat as the heat pump won’t be able to keep up, at least not very efficiently.
Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 5th January 19:32
dvs_dave said:
The heat pump doesn’t replace the standard resistive heating. It augments it by providing an alternative, more efficient, heat source. The resistive heating remains as a backup for when ambient temps are outside of the heat pump ideal efficiency range. So when it’s really really cold, the car will fall back to resistive heat as the heat pump won’t be able to keep up, at least not very efficiently.
Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
You don't need the heat pump to remotely activate the Ioniq5's climate control or create a schedule for it to come on each morning.Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 5th January 19:32
Heats up much faster than an ICE car, too (for obvious reasons).
ETA I would definitely get the tech pack though.
FarmyardPants said:
You don't need the heat pump to remotely activate the Ioniq5's climate control or create a schedule for it to come on each morning.
Heats up much faster than an ICE car, too (for obvious reasons).
ETA I would definitely get the tech pack though.
if we end up getting the i5 then, yes, the tech-pack is without a doubt a must have (IIRC it includes memory seats and HuD)Heats up much faster than an ICE car, too (for obvious reasons).
ETA I would definitely get the tech pack though.
DodgyGeezer said:
if we end up getting the i5 then, yes, the tech-pack is without a doubt a must have (IIRC it includes memory seats and HuD)
Ours was a cancelled order so we couldn't choose the spec - it doesn't have the tech pack but it does have the HUD (ultimate spec comes with HUD). Tech pack gives you the dash video of blindspot when indicating, all-round camera, memory seats, remote-control/summon from the fob, leg rest thingies and probably a few other gizmos I've forgotten.The main reason we went for it was for the AWD
.dvs_dave said:
The heat pump doesn’t replace the standard resistive heating. It augments it by providing an alternative, more efficient, heat source. The resistive heating remains as a backup for when ambient temps are outside of the heat pump ideal efficiency range. So when it’s really really cold, the car will fall back to resistive heat as the heat pump won’t be able to keep up, at least not very efficiently.
Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
Although, if you have to get the heat pump option to get the cabin and battery pre-conditioning function, then yes, you definitely want that. It’s one of the big upsides to having an EV.
The UK climate is pretty much ideal air source heat pump efficiency range, so overall you’ll get the most out if it. Just in occasional extremes (which are very rare in the UK compared to most places), it’ll not be of any advantage. But for the most part it will be.
Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 5th January 19:32
This is the thing people need to remember. Its not specific to car heat pumps, but this is a generic plot for an air source pump in a house. There is a point where it just cannot provide the heat energy to meet demand. And it will be working its socks off yet not getting you the warmth you want. You need an additional source here to help. I imagine this will also be the case even if you have pre-heated. The cabin will lose heat quickly, but I guess with a HP it might not lose heat as quickly, but you will eventually find yourself in the same situation of needing heat and the pump not being able to provide it all because of the temperature outside.
They of course say that the HPs also source heat from components like battery and motor but guess what, these are typically of such high efficiency, there isn't that much heat to scavenge.
Depends on the specification but I would expect its similarly going to have this kind of cross over around 0 degC where it starts to not be able to keep up with demand. We don't really get this kind of temperature that often so the HP should work OK most days.
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