REGISTER SORN WITHOUT DOCUMENTS
Discussion
As the title says, looking to register as SORN with a car that has gone to the scrappy with the documents on the front seat - it's my daughter's car which was in a collision and has been written off. When it was taken away to be scrapped she foolishly just left all the paperwork she had for the car on the front seat, without keeping copies or numbers etc.
This was about a month ago and as far as we know the remains of the car are long gone. However the car tax is still being paid monthly.
Online or by post, it appears that to SORN a car you need either the Document Reference Number from the V5 or the long number off the V11 Vehicle Tax
reminder - we have neither so according to the DVLA we need to apply for a duplicate V5 (cost £25) and use that number.
Our question is .... what happens if we simply cancel the monthly Direct Debit to DVLA?........ I'm hoping if we do that, in the fullness of time the V5 will be processed by the scrappy when it's either crushed or sold for spares/repair. It's still showing as taxed and MOT'd on the DVLA site.
Has anyone just cancelled their Direct Debit and done nothing else, and if so what if anything happened?
This was about a month ago and as far as we know the remains of the car are long gone. However the car tax is still being paid monthly.
Online or by post, it appears that to SORN a car you need either the Document Reference Number from the V5 or the long number off the V11 Vehicle Tax
reminder - we have neither so according to the DVLA we need to apply for a duplicate V5 (cost £25) and use that number.
Our question is .... what happens if we simply cancel the monthly Direct Debit to DVLA?........ I'm hoping if we do that, in the fullness of time the V5 will be processed by the scrappy when it's either crushed or sold for spares/repair. It's still showing as taxed and MOT'd on the DVLA site.
Has anyone just cancelled their Direct Debit and done nothing else, and if so what if anything happened?
Surely you just register it as scrapped? And if that's not possible without the documents ask for a replacement and then do it.
ETA and now I'm annoyed because it didn't occur to me to do the same so I've wasted 4 months tax on a car that was written off in the summer!
ETA and now I'm annoyed because it didn't occur to me to do the same so I've wasted 4 months tax on a car that was written off in the summer!
Edited by Bill on Friday 6th January 18:41
As far as I know it's an Insurance Write Off ..... the DVLA website has a procedure for notifying them about this but it does - not surprisingly - need us to have the V5 for the Document Reference Number.
Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that way back you could simply write a letter to the DVLA saying words to the effect of "I've scrapped my car" which covered those who broke a car on their driveway and slowly disposed of the remains.
Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that way back you could simply write a letter to the DVLA saying words to the effect of "I've scrapped my car" which covered those who broke a car on their driveway and slowly disposed of the remains.
Many moons ago (like about 2002) I sold a car to a scrapyard for about £30 I think (Triumph Acclaim). I got a letter about an unpaid parking ticket about 6 months later! I explained it away, but it's the reason you should NOT give a scrapyard the entire V5c without filling it in. They may fix it and sell it on. 
Surely one of two circumstances applies here?
Was the car categorised as a A/B or N/S (I assume not Cat A if you left the documents on the seat).
So, was the car taken away to be immediately scrapped (as in sold to an end of life handler) who will then crush the car? If so, a certificate of destruction will be issued.
I’ve not “scrapped” a car like this, but family members have and they handed the v5 less the yellow trade slip and notify the DVLA. More recently, I think it was done online (notify DVLA you sold car in trade). The DVLA would then refund remaining tax if paid in advance with months still remaining.
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
Alternatively, the yellow trade section is kept, the remainder of the V5 goes with the car. The car is the transferred in trade to the insurance company who will then sell it off through salvage.
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
So to summarise, the yellow trade slip should have been kept, (I assume it was not and the whole V5 went with the car) it would’ve been possible to then tell the DVLA the car was transferred to trade. I’d say you needn’t SORN the car, simply transferring the ownership of it.
I hope that if the car is sold off rather than crushed, it goes to a reputable person who will do the right thing in regards to changing keeper and tax/SORNing it, or else it will remain in yours/your daughters name until someone does…
Just to add, the term scrapped or written off is often confused as well.
Scrapped would usually mean gone to an end of life recycler who will crush it.
Written off relates to the insurance deciding not to repair, but it doesn’t mean the car will be crushed. A Cat. A car has to be crushed. However, most likely, and with most write offs this will be the case, the car will be sold off with whichever category has been assigned by the assessor, so a B Cat. B will be sold and go to a salvage yard who will break for parts, Cat. N and Cat. S can both be sold and can be repaired and returned to the road.
Was the car categorised as a A/B or N/S (I assume not Cat A if you left the documents on the seat).
So, was the car taken away to be immediately scrapped (as in sold to an end of life handler) who will then crush the car? If so, a certificate of destruction will be issued.
I’ve not “scrapped” a car like this, but family members have and they handed the v5 less the yellow trade slip and notify the DVLA. More recently, I think it was done online (notify DVLA you sold car in trade). The DVLA would then refund remaining tax if paid in advance with months still remaining.
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
Alternatively, the yellow trade section is kept, the remainder of the V5 goes with the car. The car is the transferred in trade to the insurance company who will then sell it off through salvage.
https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicl...
So to summarise, the yellow trade slip should have been kept, (I assume it was not and the whole V5 went with the car) it would’ve been possible to then tell the DVLA the car was transferred to trade. I’d say you needn’t SORN the car, simply transferring the ownership of it.
I hope that if the car is sold off rather than crushed, it goes to a reputable person who will do the right thing in regards to changing keeper and tax/SORNing it, or else it will remain in yours/your daughters name until someone does…
Just to add, the term scrapped or written off is often confused as well.
Scrapped would usually mean gone to an end of life recycler who will crush it.
Written off relates to the insurance deciding not to repair, but it doesn’t mean the car will be crushed. A Cat. A car has to be crushed. However, most likely, and with most write offs this will be the case, the car will be sold off with whichever category has been assigned by the assessor, so a B Cat. B will be sold and go to a salvage yard who will break for parts, Cat. N and Cat. S can both be sold and can be repaired and returned to the road.
Edited by Ffordd Ar Gau on Friday 6th January 20:53
It's not exactly the same but I've had similar when selling a car and forgetting to cancel the tax.
I had to write a letter to the DVLA stating when I sold it, who to, the address etc. With your instance I suspect you'll have to say it was scrapped on x date, you scrapped it at such and such location etc. Maybe phone the DVLA and explain, they'll be able to assist. If you do have to write a letter, send it recorded delivery otherwise you'll get some goons trying to chase you for car tax. Ask me how I know!
I had to write a letter to the DVLA stating when I sold it, who to, the address etc. With your instance I suspect you'll have to say it was scrapped on x date, you scrapped it at such and such location etc. Maybe phone the DVLA and explain, they'll be able to assist. If you do have to write a letter, send it recorded delivery otherwise you'll get some goons trying to chase you for car tax. Ask me how I know!
TDowney2394 said:
It's not exactly the same but I've had similar when selling a car and forgetting to cancel the tax.
I had to write a letter to the DVLA stating when I sold it, who to, the address etc. With your instance I suspect you'll have to say it was scrapped on x date, you scrapped it at such and such location etc. Maybe phone the DVLA and explain, they'll be able to assist. If you do have to write a letter, send it recorded delivery otherwise you'll get some goons trying to chase you for car tax. Ask me how I know!
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.I had to write a letter to the DVLA stating when I sold it, who to, the address etc. With your instance I suspect you'll have to say it was scrapped on x date, you scrapped it at such and such location etc. Maybe phone the DVLA and explain, they'll be able to assist. If you do have to write a letter, send it recorded delivery otherwise you'll get some goons trying to chase you for car tax. Ask me how I know!
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Unreal said:
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Neither of those are down to the DVLA.
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Neither of those are down to the DVLA.
People on this forum have recounted personal experiences of having a signature confirming receipt and then nothing…. [source. This forum and a family member who worked at DVLA]
You work within the boundaries of a flawed system, you don’t go out of your way to make things worse.
And whining about the injustice of something you already know, solves s
t.PV7998 said:
As far as I know it's an Insurance Write Off ..... the DVLA website has a procedure for notifying them about this but it does - not surprisingly - need us to have the V5 for the Document Reference Number.
Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that way back you could simply write a letter to the DVLA saying words to the effect of "I've scrapped my car" which covered those who broke a car on their driveway and slowly disposed of the remains.
I would, do ALL of the following.Somewhere in the back of my mind is the thought that way back you could simply write a letter to the DVLA saying words to the effect of "I've scrapped my car" which covered those who broke a car on their driveway and slowly disposed of the remains.
1. Request a replacement V5 from the post office, so that I could complete the online form as scrapped and backdate it.
2. Separately send a letter to DVLA explaining the situation in full.
3. Cancel the tax at the end of this calendar month (it’s already started)
4. Scan copies of everything, knowing as a car person that things can and do get lost at DVLA and you may need to provide copies.
5. Makes sure your daughter learns the required life lesson about ‘assuming’ and not reading something’ as well as paying the £25 and extra months tax.
PS. You are a good father, for sorting this for her and not letting her ignore it.
Edited by Hol on Friday 13th January 09:42
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Neither of those are down to the DVLA.
Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Unreal said:
Where's your information coming from?
Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Scanning of documents and then being able to electronically distribute them has existed for a long long time. Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Dingu said:
Unreal said:
Where's your information coming from?
Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Scanning of documents and then being able to electronically distribute them has existed for a long long time. Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Unreal said:
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
MustangGT said:
Unreal said:
Yes good luck with the DVLA. I sold a car last year. Sent the V5 off with the new keeper's details. Seems they never got it as I'm now being chased for unpaid tax. They now say I have to send them the new owner's details which I didn't retain (who does?) so I've asked them to show me the legislation that says I'm required to do any more than send off the V5.
They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
I find them excellent to deal with. I do everything online, no problems (between 07:00 and 19:00). Instant confirmation, new V5 in a few days. Sending them paperwork is a recipe for disaster. They are a nightmare to deal with. Emails and letters are fired out (always do not reply to this email) and letters from me just generate more standard forms.
Neither of those are down to the DVLA.
Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Unreal said:
Dingu said:
Unreal said:
Where's your information coming from?
Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
Scanning of documents and then being able to electronically distribute them has existed for a long long time. Do you think it might have anything to do with 9 out of 10 Welsh public servants still working from home? Must admit I haven't seen any home addresses to send mail to.
I waited the obligatory 6 weeks and then finally got through to somebody on the phone asking what had happened to it. After a brief check, they said it was lost and I'd have to apply for another one and pay £25. Well, I waited another couple of days and checking online I saw that a new V5c had been issued, and it arrived a few days later, with no further action by me. Funny thing, that, must have been 'found.'
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